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MWAG call about me today

paintsnow

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DVC wrote:
gmijackso wrote:
I don't know that he has done anything worthy of a pat on the back.
He suppressed his personal opinion, did his job, and was friendly to a guy he thinks shouldn't have been armed.

In other words: "I don't like what you are doing, but I am here to defend your right to do it."

THAT is DEFINITELY worth a pat on the back.
Exactly!

He stood up for me, and was very friendly the whole time he was handling the call. If i had to, i would have guessed he was all for carrying and supported it. It wasnt until later outside when i joined in on the conversation he was having with the other guy about guns, and the laws in general when he made that comment. Even then he said he didnt have a problem with law abiding citizens carrying, he just didnt understand the law. I think it was from the brainwashing he received growing up in NY.

I was having a hard time finding a good way of putting it, thanks DVC
 

DVC

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paintsnow wrote:
Does the Sheriff actually read the letters addressed to him? Or should i send it to a more immediate supervisor?
The Sheriff or Chief will read any letter praising one of his or her people. They will read critical letters, IF they are well-phrased, not hysterical or over the top, and give specifics.

The only time this is not true is when your letter is one among many regarding a particular incident and offering similar views.

Of course, the secretary reads the letters first, and will pass them along.

Whatever you write will filter down to the cop (BTW, a police department has officers, a sheriff's department has DEPUTIES) through the chain of command. In a large agency, this may be several levels, each of which will be given the word.

ALWAYS request that the letter be placed in the officer's or deputy's PERMANENT personnel records. Otherwise -- especially for complaints -- the issue may be given "administrative action" then the letter trashed. By requesting that it go into the permanent records, they will be more likely to keep it in the jacket, in case you make later reference to it. NO agency lawyer wants to see ". . .as I mentioned in my letter of 24 April 2010 . . ." then be unable to find that letter, whether it's a criticism or compliment.

Consider that your letter may be the deciding factor in that deputy keeping his job after someone tosses a complaint at the department about the deputy's demeanor.
 

DVC

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timf343 wrote:
As for the blue card, since it's a crime to have an unregistered pistol, this cop was trying to bust you for something. There is no other reason to ask other than to gather evidence to arrest you.
I gotta disagree.

The other reason for asking is because, if a discussion were to follow this, he would want to tell his supervisor "and I checked his blue card, he was all right."

Little Miss Hoplophobe sounds like just the kind who would call the department to complain that the deputy hadn't done his job because there was no arrest. If I were the deputy, I would want to be able to say I had covered all of the bases.

As described, I would give the deputy every Brownie point on the page for the way this was handled.
 

timf343

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DVC, I think you restated exactly what I said. The only reason to ask was to gather evidence to arrest you. He covered all the bases, and most certainly would have cited OP if he found the firearm to be unregistered.

I do not fault the officer for this in any way. I find fault with the OP answering the questions. Again, everyone can handle the situation any way he sees fit; to me it's just a matter of declining to cooperate with anyone who's trying to find a reason to arrest me. I've watched way too many episodes of COPS where a person winds up talking himself right into a pair of handcuffs.

How many laws did you break today? An interesting study last year might surprise you. It should at least make you think.

http://thecrimereport.org/2009/10/04/how-many-laws-did-you-break-today/
 

timf343

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DVC wrote:
He suppressed his personal opinion, did his job, and was friendly to a guy he thinks shouldn't have been armed.

In other words: "I don't like what you are doing, but I am here to defend your right to do it."
See, I read it differently. I read it as:

In other words: "I don't like what you are doing, but since you're not breaking any laws I'll just leave."

He wasn't there defending anyone's rights, he was there to investigate whether a crime occurred and to arrest the perpetrator. Since he found no evidence of a crime, he had no choice but to leave.
 

The Big Guy

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I would like to make these comments:

1st... you lied to the cop, not a good idea. (blue card)

2nd... Don't feed the bears. Never, never give a cop anything. I would have told him that there would be no discussion and that I would like to finish my lunch in peace.

3rd...You should not have spoken with her on the way out. Stay away from her.

4th...Perhaps you should have pointed out to management that she was causing adisturbance and ask the manager to remover her. Had I been the manager and someone had called the cops on one of my customers causing a scene in my store without speaking to me first, she would have been asked to leave and not come back.

BG
 

DVC

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timf343 wrote:
DVC wrote:
He suppressed his personal opinion, did his job, and was friendly to a guy he thinks shouldn't have been armed.

In other words: "I don't like what you are doing, but I am here to defend your right to do it."
See, I read it differently. I read it as:

In other words: "I don't like what you are doing, but since you're not breaking any laws I'll just leave."
. . .except he didn't just leave. He talked with the OP and was sympathetic in re: Little Miss Hoplophobe. He talked about his background, and understood that this was affecting his opinion. He didn't throw attitude around.

In other words, he was going out of his way to be nice to a guy with a gun, even though his own instincts were to be on the other side of the fence. If he had made contact then just left, yes, that would have fit what you said. However, he took the time to turn it into a Good Contact.

How much more can you ask for?

I've known way too may lowlife who were pinned to the back of a perfectly good badge. This was one of the Good Guys(tm).
 

Lostlittlerobot

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Apologies in advance if i'm off...

When the officer first asked if you had your blue card, you said you did not. Then later you say you gave him a copy of it.

If it was a copy - then you might have wiggle room, but if it was the actual card, you right there might have been charged with obstruction?

Just a warning about how cooperating and helping someone who's "acting" professional, might bite you in the behind. Or maybe I just have a wild imagination



Shrug.
 

DVC

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Lostlittlerobot wrote:
Apologies in advance if i'm off...

When the officer first asked if you had your blue card, you said you did not. Then later you say you gave him a copy of it.

If it was a copy - then you might have wiggle room, but if it was the actual card, you right there might have been charged with obstruction?

Just a warning about how cooperating and helping someone who's "acting" professional, might bite you in the behind. Or maybe I just have a wild imagination



Shrug.
Better to tell the truth in the first place.

I live in the northern part of the state, so don't know about the blue card -- but if you aren't required to carry it, WHY WOULD YOU?
 

gmijackso

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timf343 wrote:
See, I read it differently.  I read it as:

In other words: "I don't like what you are doing, but since you're not breaking any laws I'll just leave."

He wasn't there defending anyone's rights, he was there to investigate whether a crime occurred and to arrest the perpetrator.  Since he found no evidence of a crime, he had no choice but to leave.

This is exactly as I read it also, which is why I don't feel that he's done anything "stellar" to deserve a pat on the back from anybody but his boss for being a "good cop". He did his job, that is all. Nothing more, but possibly less by offering opinion at all.

There is NO reason to ask if you have a blue card. You're not required to carry it, and he's not allowed to touch your weapon to run it without RAS to begin with. Unless the girl was standing there listening to him talk to you, there was no way for her to "feel better" that he asked about your blue card. For all she knows, you talked about the weather. He was fishing, as a cop does, nothing more.
 

gmijackso

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DVC wrote:
. . .except he didn't just leave.  He talked with the OP and was sympathetic in re: Little Miss Hoplophobe.  He talked about his background, and understood that this was affecting his opinion.   He didn't throw attitude around.

In other words, he was going out of his way to be nice to a guy with a gun, even though his own instincts were to be on the other side of the fence.  If he had made contact then just left, yes, that would have fit what you said.  However, he took the time to turn it into a Good Contact.

How much more can you ask for?

I've known way too may lowlife who were pinned to the back of a perfectly good badge.  This was one of the Good Guys(tm).

I don't believe this to be accurate from what I read of the OP, but perhaps I misunderstood. It sounded to me, as if the OP talked to the cop outside after finishing lunch. The OP was a nice guy and talked to the cop on a personal level, not the other way around. The OP went out of his way to have a good contact.

The OP didn't say, but I would guess that the conversation about past, was led by the OP and not offered by the cop as well, though obviously, I'm making an assumption as well.

All in all, it turned out well for the OP, and I'm glad to see that the cop didn't get out of hand. But reality is, that the OP didn't need to be contacted by the officer at all. As was stated by the OP earlier, the cop was dispatched to deal with the frantic girl, not the MWAG. So, if that is the case, why contact the OP at all, unless you're fishing for a reason to arrest?
 

paintsnow

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He came over to talk to me because i waved him over. I knew he was there for me, and he was walking around looking lost because the girl did not talk to him when he came in.

He didnt ask if it was registered or anything like that, the first words he spoke were telling me not to worry, and that everything was legal. He asked if i had my blue card on me, and i said no, as i was starting to say im not required to carry it, he interrupted me by saying "you dont need it so thats fine." This set the tone for the rest of the encounter. He was not interested in me, he didnt care that i was there. Didnt ask why i was carrying. He didnt even get a good look at my gun, carried at about 4:30. He just told me i wasnt breaking any laws, and the only reason he was there was because the girl insisted while talking to dispatch.

I did not lie to him, i did not have my blue card on me. A copy isn't really official, since it was on white paper, and it could easily be a fake.


As to the contact outside, he stuck around and was talking to another man outside about guns. I joined in on the conversation those two were having. So the cop was outside having a personal conversation, and i jumped in, i was not leading it.

Now, any ways i can get my hands on the call? or the incident report he filled after?
How would i go about doing that?
 

BB62

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Paintsnow - EXCELLENT write-up. Well written, good punctuation and spelling - THANK YOU!!

Please keep us posted.

As for the incident report cost, it looks like Nevada needs a (better?) public records law! $39? sheesh!
 

DVC

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gmijackso wrote:
I don't believe this to be accurate from what I read of the OP, but perhaps I misunderstood. It sounded to me, as if the OP talked to the cop outside after finishing lunch. The OP was a nice guy and talked to the cop on a personal level, not the other way around. The OP went out of his way to have a good contact.
Ever have a good contact with a cop who didn't want one?

Me neither.

One thing being overlooked is that the OP WAS THERE, and HE believes that the cop deserves the attaboy.

That's good enough for me.

When you consider the attitude being thrown by way too many cops these days, one who is "just doing his job" deserves to be shown that we're not ignoring it. Let's not forget that a cop who doesn't like people carrying guns COULD have made this happen a whole lot differently. He would be within policy and justified in asking the OP to step outside while straightening it out, and things get even less pleasant from there -- nothing major, just annoying and within the law. For instance: "a 19-year-old carrying a handgun . . .where did you get it, when you have to be 21 to buy one? Who is the legal owner? Does the owner know that you have it? Do you know the owner's phone number? Do you have anything proving that you're allowed to have it . . ?" Half an hour later, the OP can get back to his life, after Little Miss Hoplophobe gets a story to tell everyone in school the next day.

This guy didn't even give the OP grief for lying about the blue card!

Somewhere in here, you have to admit that this cop deserves the pat on the back for NOT having done what he COULD have gotten away with.

My personal policy is to encourage good behavior on the part of others -- including cops -- by praising it. And when you praise a cop, praise with a letter to the top boss, so it has the most effect.

After that letter trickles down to the deputy who earned it, that deputy will think "he didn't need to do that," and equate nice things with guys carrying pistols.

So . . .tell me where that hurts us any . . ?

It's not enough to have the law on our side. It's not enough to have right on our side. We want our NEIGHBORS on our side, and we want out CIVIL SERVANTS on our side. Anything this simple which improves this relationship is worth doing.
 

gmijackso

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DVC wrote:
Ever have a good contact with a cop who didn't want one? 

Me neither.

One thing being overlooked is that the OP WAS THERE, and HE believes that the cop deserves the attaboy.

That's good enough for me.

When you consider the attitude being thrown by way too many cops these days, one who is "just doing his job" deserves to be shown that we're not ignoring it.  Let's not forget that a cop who doesn't like people carrying guns COULD have made this happen a whole lot differently.  He would be within policy and justified in asking the OP to step outside while straightening it out, and things get even less pleasant from there -- nothing major, just annoying and within the law.  For instance:  "a 19-year-old carrying a handgun . . .where did you get it, when you have to be 21 to buy one?  Who is the legal owner?  Does the owner know that you have it?  Do you know the owner's phone number?  Do you have anything proving that you're allowed to have it . . ?"  Half an hour later, the OP can get back to his life, after Little Miss Hoplophobe gets a story to tell everyone in school the next day.

This guy didn't even give the OP grief for lying about the blue card!

Somewhere in here, you have to admit that this cop deserves the pat on the back for NOT having done what he COULD have gotten away with.

My personal policy is to encourage good behavior on the part of others -- including cops -- by praising it.  And when you praise a cop, praise with a letter to the top boss, so it has the most effect.

After that letter trickles down to the deputy who earned it, that deputy will think "he didn't need to do that," and equate nice things with guys carrying pistols.

So . . .tell me where that hurts us any . . ?

It's not enough to have the law on our side.  It's not enough to have right on our side.  We want our NEIGHBORS on our side, and we want out CIVIL SERVANTS on our side.  Anything this simple which improves this relationship is worth doing.

Rewarding mediocrity is a poor choice in all aspects in life.

OP didn't lie about the blue card. He didn't have the blue card, as the officer asked, he had a copy.

As for deserving a pat on the back for "what he could have done" is also ridiculous. He COULD have asked all of the things you suggest, but you are not required to answer or do any of them. Forcing any of them would have been a violation of the law, and therefore rewarding a police officer for not violating the law seems a little wrong.

It hurts us, by rewarding the police officer for having any unnecessary contact with somebody that was OC. As I stated above, there was NO reason to have any contact with the OP. As OP stated, he initiated contact, so I'll let that go, but there was NO reason to ask the OP any questions whatsoever, let alone questions probing for violations of law.

I agree that anything that is simple that improves a relationship is worth doing. I think the differing point here is whether this improves the relationship. To me, the analogy of this situation is as follows. You're trying to potty train a dog, so when they do their business outside as you expect and wish, you reward them with a treat. Now, if you lower your standards to be that the dog does it's business near the door, you're suddenly rewarding the dog for crapping inside the house. Sure, the dog was close to being outside, but do you really want to train the dog to crap inside the house by the door? No, you want them to go outside. Likewise, we don't want the police to be less than horrible, we want them to do what is right.

Ultimately, the OP should do what he desires. He was the only one of us there, and knows more about the situation than any of us. I can only relay my feelings and my opinions based on the information I was given. My opinion, is that the officer has done nothing to deserve reward. Likewise, he's done nothing to deserve a reprimand. He was merely mediocre at best.
 

ixtow

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Had I not read this, I would still say it's impossible.

A Cop, from NY, being told to go harass someone his opinions says he would like to kill, and some entitled See You Next Tuesday egging him on?

And he stuck to the law?

WOW.

I see no reason NOT to talk to Cops, as long as you know what you are saying to them. I've done it so much, I'm damn good at giving them nothing while talking. Not everyone can do that. But giving in due to HER pressure of being a See You Next Tuesday... Sure, I can armchair quarterback this one. I would have said "I realize this sucks for you, but I'm not giving into her asinine behavior just because shes using you as a go-between. I feel for you man, but I'm not giving an inch for her."

You need to FOIA this. The Cop was looking at the employees because dispatch told him the caller was an employee. This See You Next Tuesday lied to the cops, made a false report. Do whatever you can to get her sorry ass prosecuted.
 

gmijackso

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ixtow wrote:
Had I not read this, I would still say it's impossible.

A Cop, from NY, being told to go harass someone his opinions says he would like to kill, and some entitled See You Next Tuesday egging him on?

And he stuck to the law?

WOW.

I see no reason NOT to talk to Cops, as long as you know what you are saying to them.  I've done it so much, I'm damn good at giving them nothing while talking.  Not everyone can do that.  But giving in due to HER pressure of being a See You Next Tuesday...  Sure, I can armchair quarterback this one.  I would have said "I realize this sucks for you, but I'm not giving into her asinine behavior just because shes using you as a go-between. I feel for you man, but I'm not giving an inch for her."

You need to FOIA this. The Cop was looking at the employees because dispatch told him the caller was an employee. This See You Next Tuesday lied to the cops, made a false report.  Do whatever you can to get her sorry ass prosecuted.

Actually... dispatch probably assumed and lied to the officers they dispatched, or just flat out lied. It's a common problem here in Vegas.

Example: My vehicle was hit in a parking lot. I watched it happen, and it was a co-worker that hit it. Called the police told them what happened, they said they were really busy but would send somebody to the private property because I had informed them that there was more than $10k in damage. 1.5 hours later, the cop shows up. Cop asks who was drinking, we said nobody. Cop then asks why, if it happened yesterday, didn't anybody report it then. We scratch our head and go, huh? Apparently, dispatch had told the officer that it happened yesterday, and that one of the drivers was there again and drunk and that was the reason for his need to go. We explained reality, and he said that false info from dispatch happens a lot.

So I fully expect that either the cop just assumed, or dispatch told him it was an employee. Probably a fairly small chance that the girl claimed to be an employee.
 

Cisco

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VegasGlocKid wrote:
My old government teacher is going to bring it up tomorrow when he has "A" in his class. I think he is going to start talking about gun laws, and then propose a scenario. The scenario he is going to bring up is: "Suppose you walk into a del taco for lunch, and there is a man in a white tshirt and brown shorts openly carrying a firearm" (That was my outfit today, haha) So ill let you know how "A" reacts to that in class tomorrow, and im going to see if "C" can tell me where "A" is getting lunch the next time, so i can swing by for some food. Maybe "A" will call it in again hoping for a different cop.
LOL! Keep us posted
 

timf343

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BB62 wrote:
As for the incident report cost, it looks like Nevada needs a (better?) public records law! $39? sheesh!
The law actually is good. Unfortunately, LVMPD is above the law and sets its own rules.
NRS 239.052
Fees: Limitations; waiver; posting of sign or notice.

1. Except as otherwise provided in this subsection, a governmental entity may charge a fee for providing a copy of a public record. Such a fee must not exceed the actual cost to the governmental entity to provide the copy of the public record unless a specific statute or regulation sets a fee that the governmental entity must charge for the copy. A governmental entity shall not charge a fee for providing a copy of a public record if a specific statute or regulation requires the governmental entity to provide the copy without charge.

2. A governmental entity may waive all or a portion of a charge or fee for a copy of a public record if the governmental entity:
(a) Adopts a written policy to waive all or a portion of a charge or fee for a copy of a public record; and
(b) Posts, in a conspicuous place at each office in which the governmental entity provides copies of public records, a legible sign or notice that states the terms of the policy.

3. A governmental entity shall prepare and maintain a list of the fees that it charges at each office in which the governmental entity provides copies of public records. A governmental entity shall post, in a conspicuous place at each office in which the governmental entity provides copies of public records, a legible sign or notice which states:
(a) The fee that the governmental entity charges to provide a copy of a public record; or
(b) The location at which a list of each fee that the governmental entity charges to provide a copy of a public record may be obtained.
 
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