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Thread: Video or Photography of Norfolk / VA State police / FBI training exercises prohibited

  1. #1
    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Got an email from ODU this afternoon. Can anyone offer a cite for the bolded part?


    ...Be advised that the Norfolk Field Office of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), in conjunction with the Old Dominion Police Department, Norfolk Police Department and Virginia State Police, will be conducting live training exercises on campus from 12 a.m. Monday, May 17, through 5 p.m. Thursday, May 20...

    Videotaping or photographing the training exercises is prohibited and access to the area will be restricted.
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Unenforceable.

    Their argument is probably some rigmarole about "security" and "public safety" but that's a front to say "We don't want you to know what tools we have available to use against you."

    Get a telephoto lens. Film away.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    wylde007 wrote:
    Unenforceable.

    Their argument is probably some rigmarole about "security" and "public safety" but that's a front to say "We don't want you to know what tools we have available to use against you."

    Get a telephoto lens. Film away.
    +1. If they are visible from a public place, they are fair game.

    Although I think we could use a citation... if there isn't a law prohibiting it, then it's legal, just like OC.

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Spent some time on the phone. The third is probably the most interesting...

    http://tjsplace.cjb.net/DA_0155.mp3
    http://tjsplace.cjb.net/DA_0156.mp3
    http://tjsplace.cjb.net/DA_0157.mp3

    They were encoded from wav format to mp3 with LAME and I haven't listened to them in mp3 so the quality might not be that great.
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    I have requested a cite (I receive those emails, too) and am waiting for a response.

    It sounds to me like the woman was claiming "policy" gave them the authority to prohibit filming.

    We all know that is a load of processed bovine nourishment.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  6. #6
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    t33j wrote:
    Spent some time on the phone. The third is probably the most interesting...

    http://tjsplace.cjb.net/DA_0155.mp3
    http://tjsplace.cjb.net/DA_0156.mp3
    http://tjsplace.cjb.net/DA_0157.mp3

    They were encoded from wav format to mp3 with LAME and I haven't listened to them in mp3 so the quality might not be that great.
    As far as normal law, if they.re in public, they have no expectation of privacy.
    Having worked for the FBI as a contractor for a few years I'd be willing to bet they throw some provision of the Patriot Act at you.

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Michelle Falck who sends the emails for ODU did not have a cite (nor did I really expect her to). She did say that Vanessa Torres was the FBI representative who gave her the information to distribute.


    Having worked for the FBI as a contractor for a few years I'd be willing to bet they throw some provision of the Patriot Act at you.
    NATIONAL SECURITY!!!1! It's for the children.

    I wonder if news channel videographers are trained in this sort of thing.
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    t33j wrote:
    Michelle Falck who sends the emails for ODU did not have a cite (nor did I really expect her to). She did say that Vanessa Torres was the FBI representative who gave her the information to distribute.


    Having worked for the FBI as a contractor for a few years I'd be willing to bet they throw some provision of the Patriot Act at you.
    NATIONAL SECURITY!!!1! It's for the children.

    I wonder if news channel videographers are trained in this sort of thing.
    Freelance get away with what they can. The employed photo/videographers are instructed to not make waves unless it involves something special. Most news stations have a "Working Relationship" (read that as you kiss my a@@ I'll kiss yours) with the Departments.

    I did a story on a similar situation where a park was closed to Mainstream media.
    I'm running my syndication stories now but this blog has it.


    http://www.frugal-cafe.com/public_ht...e-house-video/

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    I am sure that they say you can't record their activities due to global warming and lead paint on toys from china.

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    I am going to suggest an avenue of research for anyone looking for an authority on "no filming". I am building it from vague recollections, so don't take any of this too literally.

    I have this vague recollection that the VA Freedom of Information Act exempts police documents, training manuals, etc., that give tactical response plans, certain security procedures, that sort of thing.

    The VA FOIA is modeled on the federal FOIA statute.

    This "no filming" claim may be nothing more than an illegal extension of the federal FOIA statute exemption (if there is one) protecting tactical plans and procedures.

    So, my suggestion is to check the federal FOIA statute while awaiting a response from the government representative.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    FOIA is FOIA, what does that have to do with standing in a public place taking pictures? That sounds like a stretch to me, even for the feds.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Tomahawk wrote:
    FOIA is FOIA, what does that have to do with standing in a public place taking pictures? That sounds like a stretch to me, even for the feds.
    But the feds just love to stretch.

    I'm curious, in a very vague way, why this exercise has received as much publicity as it has, and why ODU saw fit to notify everyone. Were they hoping to prevent a flood of 911 calls about terrorists?

    And if "access to the area will be restricted" then what's all the fuss about?

    Or is ODU finding it's nether parts caught in a wringer because they started to brag about the feds picking them ("They picked us! We're special! They love us better than they love all the rest of you!") and then remembered that the feds wanted to keep gawkers at a distance if they could not be totally excluded?

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Here's the whole email. Looks like they're just worried about MWAG type calls, and concerned onlookers.

    Attention ODU Students, Faculty and Staff –

    Be advised that the Norfolk Field Office of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), in conjunction with the Old Dominion Police Department, Norfolk Police Department and Virginia State Police, will be conducting live training exercises on campus from 12 a.m. Monday, May 17, through 5 p.m. Thursday, May 20.

    The activity will be centered in the northeast [actually northwest] area of campus, near 49th Street and Powhatan Avenue. Portions of Whitehurst Hall, Powhatan Apartments and the Student Recreation Center will be utilized.

    Videotaping or photographing the training exercises is prohibited and access to the area will be restricted.

    The training will involve air and ground emergency response vehicles, special tactical teams and volunteer role players to prepare law enforcement officers for real-life situations in the field. Some of the exercises may occur during early-morning hours. You can expect to hear sirens and audible commands from law enforcement officers. These are simulated exercises and not real-life situations; therefore, there is no need for concern for those in or near the training area.

    Please note:
    Powhatan Avenue, between 43rd and 49th streets, may be closed during these exercises.
    Individuals needing to access the Student Recreation Center or Child Development Center on 48th Street should park in Lot 44 on 49th Street and walk to the centers.
    The Student Recreation Center’s MAC court and the field behind the facility will be closed.
    Lot 42 will be closed during the training.
    Staff working in the Facilities Management Building will be granted access northbound on Powhatan (from the 43rd Street end) with their university ID.
    Residents of Powhatan Apartments will have access to Lot 32 via the 49th and Powhatan checkpoint with their university ID.

    The ODU community is reminded that these are simulated exercises. In the event of an emergency elsewhere on campus, normal emergency reporting protocols to 911 or the ODU Police Department (683-4000) should be followed.

    For questions or concerns, call the Office of University Relations at 683-3114.
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Based on what I read, I cannot find any way that ODU or the Feds/locals can pull any "no filming/no audio recording" of anything, so long as you do so from any place where you are not otherwise permitted to be. Double ditto from anywhere considered "public" property - street (as long as you do not block traffic) and especially city sidewalks. There may be an issue of doing so while on ODU property, but I'd see a long list of "public access" and 1A lawsuits following any attempt to keep one from doing so on areas not specifically closed by barriers erected for safety purposes.

    IF the Feds want to pull "PATRIOT Act" shenannigans I wish them luck. There are many ways they could erect barriers to keep the exercise from the eyes of the public, including selecting a different locale. What I see is the opportunity to spend our tax $$ and give the locals (ODU & city cops) a chance to practice some active-shooter=on-school-grounds stuff and they are afraid they might flub some of their lines/moves.

    A final thought - wouldn't these fellas all be better off if they had both their own "professional" video and some amateur video to use in post-exercise critiques? The stuff they shoot will be based on someone focused on nowing what is supposed to happen, while an amateur will be getting the lucky shot where the lone guy slips away from the herd and sneaks through all the security.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    What exactly do they think they are preparing for?

    Another Virginia Tech, where they can patiently wait outside until the gunman kills himself?

    Against whom will these tactics realistically be deployed?

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    i received this email as well and it was an eye opener. its like telling a 3 year old not to put something in his mouth. you know darn well he will try to do it now that you have said it.


    so who is going out to ODU on these days to spectate? hehe

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    DJEEPER wrote:
    i received this email as well and it was an eye opener. its like telling a 3 year old not to put something in his mouth. you know darn well he will try to do it now that you have said it.


    so who is going out to ODU on these days to spectate? hehe
    I'd love to. I have a brand new 800 mm lens just begging for some exercise.

    I'll have to see if I can fit in in though, I have an appointment with a Senator, I am going to try to make Bob Duncan miserable, I have to meet with the State Police and I;ve been putting that off for a couple of weeks, have a flat tire on my big trailer, need to put brakes on the spare car, and need to finish taking a couple dozen glass doors to the farm.:X

    Can anyone give me the layout of that section of campus.

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    I hadn't planned on it before the email. :X I could break out the 70-200mm

    If you go here -> http://www.odu.edu/oduhome/campusmap.shtml and click on Student Recreation Center in the scroll box, the upper left hand quadrant of the map is what the email is talking about. There is 1 hour parking all along 49th street (and up) which is enforced fairly well at least during the Fall and Spring. If you rub off the chalk marks every ~1 hr you can stay indefinitely.

    Not that it matters for you, peter nap but the sidewalks immediately bordering Powhatan and 49th are not ODU property. Actually, there's a privately owned convenience store right here
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    t33j wrote:
    I hadn't planned on it before the email. :X I could break out the 70-200mm

    If you go here -> http://www.odu.edu/oduhome/campusmap.shtml and click on Student Recreation Center in the scroll box, the upper left hand quadrant of the map is what the email is talking about. There is 1 hour parking all along 49th street (and up) which is enforced fairly well at least during the Fall and Spring. If you rub off the chalk marks every ~1 hr you can stay indefinitely.

    Not that it matters for you, peter nap but the sidewalks immediately bordering Powhatan and 49th are not ODU property. Actually, there's a privately owned convenience store right here
    Thanks!

    Actually, it does matter. I don't like to argue anymore than necessary. I ain;t getting any videos or stills while I'm swapping veiled insults with the Police.

    Most of the activity will be inside and to get any of the outside pictures, I'll have to move a lot. I'm sure they will have a dozen ways to block access or line of sight.

    They did one of these in Richmond a few years ago. I ran my butt off finding holes in the perimeter to get pictures....of course, I didn't have this lens either

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    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    peter nap wrote:
    t33j wrote:
    I hadn't planned on it before the email. :X I could break out the 70-200mm

    If you go here -> http://www.odu.edu/oduhome/campusmap.shtml and click on Student Recreation Center in the scroll box, the upper left hand quadrant of the map is what the email is talking about. There is 1 hour parking all along 49th street (and up) which is enforced fairly well at least during the Fall and Spring. If you rub off the chalk marks every ~1 hr you can stay indefinitely.

    Not that it matters for you, peter nap but the sidewalks immediately bordering Powhatan and 49th are not ODU property. Actually, there's a privately owned convenience store right here
    I ran my butt off finding holes in the perimeter to get pictures....of course, I didn't have this lens either
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    t33j wrote:
    peter nap wrote:
    t33j wrote:
    I hadn't planned on it before the email. :X I could break out the 70-200mm

    If you go here -> http://www.odu.edu/oduhome/campusmap.shtml and click on Student Recreation Center in the scroll box, the upper left hand quadrant of the map is what the email is talking about. There is 1 hour parking all along 49th street (and up) which is enforced fairly well at least during the Fall and Spring. If you rub off the chalk marks every ~1 hr you can stay indefinitely.

    Not that it matters for you, peter nap but the sidewalks immediately bordering Powhatan and 49th are not ODU property. Actually, there's a privately owned convenience store right here
    I ran my butt off finding holes in the perimeter to get pictures....of course, I didn't have this lens either
    I look at them (the lens:what every time I go on Adorama's site.
    Ten grand....used

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    t33j wrote:
    Got an email from ODU this afternoon. Can anyone offer a cite for the bolded part?


    ...Be advised that the Norfolk Field Office of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), in conjunction with the Old Dominion Police Department, Norfolk Police Department and Virginia State Police, will be conducting live training exercises on campus from 12 a.m. Monday, May 17, through 5 p.m. Thursday, May 20...

    Videotaping or photographing the training exercises is prohibited and access to the area will be restricted.
    This sounds like a blog-worthy story for Carlos Miller:

    Photography Is Not A Crime

    Warning: see what can happen if you defy the edict:

    New Jersey man arrested for videotaping police officers on a public street
    May 15th, 2010 by Carlos Miller
    A New Jersey man was harassed, intimidated and finally arrested for videotaping a group of cops who were undergoing “training” in a quiet residential neighborhood.

    The cops were members of a SWAT team and were using explosives in an abandoned house, apparently training for the next time they violate somebody’s Fourth Amendment rights.

    The man stood across the street and began filming and within one minute, he was confronted by a group of officers.

    They asked why he was filming and he told them he was a documentary filmmaker.

    But that didn’t satisfy them, so they continued asking why he was filming as if maybe his answer would suddenly change.

    And then they continually asked him for identification, which he refused to provide.

    They told him he was under legal obligation to provide identification because he was classified as a “suspicious person.”

    Really? For filming a bunch of cops causing loud explosions in a quiet residential neighborhood? Who wouldn’t film that?

    Then they ordered him to remove his hands from his pockets and informed him how some people go through the trouble of making guns out of cameras so they could shoot police more effectively. Or whatever.

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    Hey t33j,

    I'm down to sit up on the new garage by foreman field or even the one on 43rd by the baseball field. That might give us a decent view. I have a 70-300 i can slap on my camera. If we want to get down by whitehurst, i have some friends that live right there on 48th. sit right in the front yard and snap away. we can show student ID and claim we are art students or something along those lines.

  24. #24
    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
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    Tomorrow looks like rain. Later in the week?
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    I sure hope none of you local OCers spontaneously decide to go for a walk there, during those times. But it sure would be funny!

    I wonder if the participants will be toting sim guns and under 'no live ammo' orders...
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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