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Mi State Trooper Illegally Detains Man For Open Carry

lapeer20m

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
928
Location
Near Lapeer (Hadley), Michigan, USA
imported post

Was detained this afternoon for about 25 minutes by a trooper. I was very disappointed in him, since he is a trooper.

He stated that he did not detain me for carrying a gun, but he detained me for failure to produce ID. My firearm was removed, i was frisked and put in the back of the car.

Creating the audio now, should be live within the hour.

I was carrying at an outdoor estate auction. An off duty deputy saw my pistol and requested the state trooper.

I did not stick to wash, rinse, repeat. I started the encounter out by smiling and shaking the hand of the trooper asking "how are you doing?" He asked for id, and things kind of went downhill from there.

In the end, i consider this a win. The point was made that this is not a stop and id state. The best part is that at the end, The officer re-holstered my firearm for me and we shook hands in front of a crowd of about 150 auction goers. Now lots of people are aware that open carry is legal.

I did finally give up my ID after several minutes. I did not want to spend the weekend in jail, I have to work tomorrow.

Then, he is like "what's that?" pointing at my voice recorder. He took it off my belt and began pushing buttons in an apparent attempt to delete the encounter. Without thinking, i grabbed a hold of it and we played tug-of-war for a few seconds until he gave me that "stop or i will taze you" look. Then i said "you can't delete that! That would be criminal!!" he relented and gave it back. Fortunately for me my recorder was "locked" so the buttons wouldn't work.

*edited to provide links*


Part I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybBX04kE0Kk

Part II
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3znSSGgiLaY

Part III
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0os57vNunM
 

eastmeyers

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
1,363
Location
Hazel Park, Michigan, USA
imported post

lapeer20m wrote:
Was detained this afternoon for about 25 minutes by a trooper. I was very disappointed in him, since he is a trooper.

He stated that he did not detain me for carrying a gun, but he detained me for failure to produce ID. My firearm was removed, i was frisked and put in the back of the car.

Creating the audio now, should be live within the hour.

I was carrying at an outdoor estate auction. An off duty deputy saw my pistol and requested the state trooper.

I did not stick to wash, rinse, repeat. I started the encounter out by smiling and shaking the hand of the trooper asking "how are you doing?" He asked for id, and things kind of went downhill from there.

In the end, i consider this a win. The point was made that this is not a stop and id state. The best part is that at the end, The officer re-holstered my firearm for me and we shook hands in front of a crowd of about 150 auction goers. Now lots of people are aware that open carry is legal.

I did finally give up my ID after several minutes. I did not want to spend the weekend in jail, I have to work tomorrow.

Then, he is like "what's that?" pointing at my voice recorder. He took it off my belt and began pushing buttons in an apparent attempt to delete the encounter. Without thinking, i grabbed a hold of it and we played tug-of-war for a few seconds until he gave me that "stop or i will taze you" look. Then i said "you can't delete that! That would be criminal!!" he relented and gave it back. Fortunately for me my recorder was "locked" so the buttons wouldn't work.

Glad to hear things ended okay, I just don't like how it began, especially him being a State Trooper. What if you were being illegally detained by local PD, and called the State Police for help and this guy showed up. You know.

Well can't wait for the audio.

God Bless, carry on
 

autosurgeon

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2008
Messages
3,831
Location
Lawrence, Michigan, United States
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Just BC they know it is legal does not mean they all are professional enough to follow the law and not let their personal biases show!

Sounds like you did a great job in the situation you were presented with.
 

Michigander

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
4,818
Location
Mulligan's Valley
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What course of action you need to take is largely dependent on how much permission he had.

If he had no consent for anything and I was in that situation, I'd have made a complaint to the MSP to have them investigate their own guy for unlawful LEIN access, then I'd make a complaint to the Director of the MSP, and after that I'd complain to the FBI about all the color of law felonious crap the trooper had done.

But again, that all depends on how much consent you gave him. :uhoh:
 

zigziggityzoo

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
1,543
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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The only way an officer can "check to make sure you're not a felon" is when there's REASONABLE, ARTICULABLE SUSPICION that you ARE a felon.

If there's no RAS, they cannot stop to make sure you're not a felon.

Looking forward to the rest of the videos.
 

choover

Regular Member
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
287
Location
Belleville , michigan, ,
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From my understanding if your being detained you are required to give him your name, if the stop itself is unlawful though could they pursue charges for failure to ID after a unlawful detention?

ETA what kind of recorder do you use with a lock feature?
 

zigziggityzoo

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
1,543
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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choover wrote:
From my understanding if your being detained you are required to give him your name, if the stop itself is unlawful though could they pursue charges for failure to ID after a unlawful detention?

ETA what kind of recorder do you use with a lock feature?

Lawful detention happens only after RAS that a crime has been committed.

If you are suspected of a crime, they can ask for your name and where you're from. They can ask you for your ID. They can ask you for your sister's hand in marriage.

You also have a 4th amendment right against search/seizure of property and person without due process, and a 5th amendment right against self-incrimination.

You don't have to give them anything.
 

zigziggityzoo

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Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
1,543
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
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choover wrote:
ETA what kind of recorder do you use with a lock feature?

My recorder has a "hold" switch - made by Sony.

Once you flip the switch, none of the buttons will work until you turn "hold" off. Handy for when you keep it going while in a pocket, or for when a cop tries to illegally tamper with evidence to be used against him.
 

choover

Regular Member
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
287
Location
Belleville , michigan, ,
imported post

zigziggityzoo wrote:
choover wrote:
ETA what kind of recorder do you use with a lock feature?

My recorder has a "hold" switch - made by Sony.

Once you flip the switch, none of the buttons will work until you turn "hold" off. Handy for when you keep it going while in a pocket, or for when a cop tries to illegally tamper with evidence to be used against him.
How do you turn hold off?

Basically I am looking for one that unlocking it is not obvious
 

zigziggityzoo

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
1,543
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
imported post

choover wrote:
zigziggityzoo wrote:
choover wrote:
ETA what kind of recorder do you use with a lock feature?

My recorder has a "hold" switch - made by Sony.

Once you flip the switch, none of the buttons will work until you turn "hold" off. Handy for when you keep it going while in a pocket, or for when a cop tries to illegally tamper with evidence to be used against him.
How do you turn hold off?

Basically I am looking for one that unlocking it is not obvious

It's quite obvious, unfortunately. Just flip the (rather large) switch to off, and it's not on hold anymore.
 

choover

Regular Member
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
287
Location
Belleville , michigan, ,
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zigziggityzoo wrote:
choover wrote:
zigziggityzoo wrote:
choover wrote:
ETA what kind of recorder do you use with a lock feature?

My recorder has a "hold" switch - made by Sony.

Once you flip the switch, none of the buttons will work until you turn "hold" off. Handy for when you keep it going while in a pocket, or for when a cop tries to illegally tamper with evidence to be used against him.
How do you turn hold off?

Basically I am looking for one that unlocking it is not obvious

It's quite obvious, unfortunately. Just flip the (rather large) switch to off, and it's not on hold anymore.
We need to make one that is not obvious :p something with a lock/unlock code so info cannot be deleted
 

Jblack44

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Joined
Sep 22, 2008
Messages
291
Location
Westland, Michigan, USA
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Boy did he try to back pedal at the end of your recording! I bet he got a earful from his supervisor, and he knew he screwed up big time. His whole demeanor changed to the good cop role.The whole "how do I know your not a felon" is such crap!!!!! Thank god he wasn't able to delete your recording.
 

SpringerXDacp

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May 12, 2006
Messages
3,341
Location
Burton, Michigan
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Jblack44 wrote:
Boy did he try to back pedal at the end of your recording! I bet he got a earful from his supervisor, and he knew he screwed up big time. His whole demeanor changed to the good cop role.The whole "how do I know your not a felon" is such crap!!!!! Thank god he wasn't able to delete your recording.
I don't know about anyone else but the last thing I would do if I were a felon would be to walk around with an exposed pistol on my hip.
 

khicks

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2007
Messages
148
Location
inkster, Michigan, USA
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i just listened to the first part of lapeer20m contact withe the state trooper, and all i can say is this trooper did not have a clue as to what he was talking about. as forthis trooperbeing progun,pro cpl, pro open carry to me it was all lip service to lapeer20m. this trooper needs to go back to school and relearn all about terry stops and how to talk to the public
 

choover

Regular Member
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
287
Location
Belleville , michigan, ,
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SpringerXDacp wrote:
Jblack44 wrote:
Boy did he try to back pedal at the end of your recording! I bet he got a earful from his supervisor, and he knew he screwed up big time. His whole demeanor changed to the good cop role.The whole "how do I know your not a felon" is such crap!!!!! Thank god he wasn't able to delete your recording.
I don't know about anyone else but the last thing I would do if I were a felon would be to walk around with an exposed pistol on my hip.
x1000000000
 

sasha601

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Messages
338
Location
Rochester Hills, Michigan, USA
imported post

Michigan is not "stop and identify state", period!!! You are not required to produce your ID at all when on foot. Not when have voluntary discussion with police, not when detained, not even when arrested (but you will not be able to secure bond without providing ID). You are not even required to verbally provide your name.
 
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