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AR Pistol build finished....

K

kito109654

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I haven't read any replies, that's my disclaimer. ;)



First off, sweet pistol build, nice component choices! Does it shoot well?! I noticed you have a "pistol lower," that was overkill but some guys like to do that and I get it I guess. :)

I want to build a pistol AR just to be able to have a gun that shoots 30 rifle rounds loaded and in my vehicle. That is soooo handy! My AR:



0edb55f9.jpg
 
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onlurker

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Question from a noob here.

I'm curious, does building an AR literally involve buying the parts and putting them together (save for the lower that may have to go through an FFL if not bought locally) or is there a bunch of other paperwork needed (gunsmith license?) to be able to put together a rifle from parts?
 
TechnoWeenie

TechnoWeenie

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onlurker wrote:
Question from a noob here.

I'm curious, does building an AR literally involve buying the parts and putting them together (save for the lower that may have to go through an FFL if not bought locally) or is there a bunch of other paperwork needed (gunsmith license?) to be able to put together a rifle from parts?
Click to expand...
Under the law, only the lower is an actual 'gun', everything else is treated as machined metal. You just can't assemble in an illegal fashion, Ie barrel less than 16" on a rifle, forward grip on a pistol, etc etc.
 
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kito109654

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onlurker wrote:
Question from a noob here.

I'm curious, does building an AR literally involve buying the parts and putting them together (save for the lower that may have to go through an FFL if not bought locally) or is there a bunch of other paperwork needed (gunsmith license?) to be able to put together a rifle from parts?
Click to expand...
Yeah pretty much. A firearm transfer is completed for the lower receiver, the part that has the FCG (fire control group) and the magwell. The rest of it is just like car parts, anyone can buy and own any of the parts and have them shipped to their door. There are a few rules but it's mostly really simple.
 
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onlurker

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kito109654 wrote:
onlurker wrote:
Question from a noob here.

I'm curious, does building an AR literally involve buying the parts and putting them together (save for the lower that may have to go through an FFL if not bought locally) or is there a bunch of other paperwork needed (gunsmith license?) to be able to put together a rifle from parts?
Click to expand...
Yeah pretty much. A firearm transfer is completed for the lower receiver, the part that has the FCG (fire control group) and the magwell. The rest of it is just like car parts, anyone can buy and own any of the parts and have them shipped to their door. There are a few rules but it's mostly really simple.
Click to expand...
When you say a few rules, do mean like what TechnoWeenie mentioned, no full auto, no short barrel (<16"), no forward grip on a pistol, basically something that would classify the weapon as an NFA Class III device?
 
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kito109654

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There is an OAL (overall length), and a barrel lengthrequirement for a rifle. Barrels shorter than 16" must have a permanently attached muzzle device that brings the barrel lenth to 16 inches.

Pistols have the same requirements of other pistols, no buttstock (only a buffer tube), no vertical forward grip (Magpul AFG or bipod should be fine) etc.

And no full auto, basically it can't be an NFA item.
 
Dreamer

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So why does a "build" like this not qualify as "manufacturing a firearm" under BATFE rules?

What if I have it re-blued or re-parkerised, or painted? There have been SEVERAL cases where people have factory-build rifles, and have taken them to a gunsmith for re-finishing, and the gunsmith has then been charged and convicted by BATFE for "manufacturing a firearm without a manufacturer's licence" ...

So how is buying a box full of parts (often from different manufacturers and sources) and assembling it into a functioning firearm (a rifle OR a pistol) not considered "manufacturing a firearm"? Is it all based on whether or not you are building them with the express intent to re-sell them?

What if someone builds a gun, then sells it in a legal private sale 5 years later? Is that considered "manufacturing a firearm"? Or does the selling of "built" firearms on fall under this regulation if the sale is done by a corporation (rather than an individual)?

I'm not trying to cause trouble here, it's just that the BATFE laws just don't seem to make any sense. (but then again, most of them DON'T, so that should come as no surprise...)
 
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Trigger Dr

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IRRC one can build a firearm for their own use and NOT for sale without being licensed as a manufacturer. Go to ATFE website and get the "facts"
 
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oneeyeross

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To put an AR together, you buy a lower that has already been built, and has a serial number.

If'n you are manufacturing a firearm, you take parts that haven't been "finished" (for example, a .45 frame that has no holes drilled, etc.) and mill/drill/finish the frame (serial numbered part)....
 
Dreamer

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So as long as you don't ever sell your "built" firearm, you're OK?

What happens if I die, and leave it to a family member in my will? Would my estate be guilty of "manufacture without a license"? Does such a firearm have to be destroyed if the original builder/owner dies? Can it EVER be transferred?

I have read the BATFE's regs, but they are so self-contradictory in places that they are difficult to make sense of. I assume their regs are designed that way though, to make things difficult...
 
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oneeyeross

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Q: Does the GCA prohibit anyone from making a handgun, shotgun or rifle? With certain exceptions a firearm may be made by a non-licensee provided it is not for sale and the maker is not prohibited from possessing firearms. However, a person is prohibited from assembling a non-sporting semi-automatic rifle or non-sporting shotgun from imported parts. In addition, the making of an NFA firearm requires a tax payment and approval by ATF. An application to make a machine gun will not be approved unless documentation is submitted showing that the firearm is being made for a Federal or State agency.
[18 U.S.C. 922(o) and (r), 26 U.S.C. 5822, 27 CFR 478.39, 479.62 and 479.105]
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/general.html#gca-manufacturing
 
TechnoWeenie

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Dreamer wrote:
So why does a "build" like this not qualify as "manufacturing a firearm" under BATFE rules?

What if I have it re-blued or re-parkerised, or painted? There have been SEVERAL cases where people have factory-build rifles, and have taken them to a gunsmith for re-finishing, and the gunsmith has then been charged and convicted by BATFE for "manufacturing a firearm without a manufacturer's licence" ...

So how is buying a box full of parts (often from different manufacturers and sources) and assembling it into a functioning firearm (a rifle OR a pistol) not considered "manufacturing a firearm"? Is it all based on whether or not you are building them with the express intent to re-sell them?

What if someone builds a gun, then sells it in a legal private sale 5 years later? Is that considered "manufacturing a firearm"? Or does the selling of "built" firearms on fall under this regulation if the sale is done by a corporation (rather than an individual)?

I'm not trying to cause trouble here, it's just that the BATFE laws just don't seem to make any sense. (but then again, most of them DON'T, so that should come as no surprise...)
Click to expand...
Because the receiver is the only thing that IS the firearm in an AR.... The upper, barrel, etc etc are all just metal... No registration, nothing required.

Only limits are you CAN NOT have it in an NFA config (SBR,AOW,etc).

I had to fill out a 4473 as a pistol, then filled out the state pistol form as well..
 
Dreamer

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kito109654 wrote:
You can sell it whenever you like. Where are you getting this stuff? Always cite.
Click to expand...
Q: Does the GCA prohibit anyone from making a handgun, shotgun or rifle?
A: With certain exceptions a firearm may be made by a non-licensee provided it is not for sale and the maker is not prohibited from possessing firearms....
[18 U.S.C. 922(o) and (r), 26 U.S.C. 5822, 27 CFR 478.39, 479.62 and 479.105]
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/general.html#gca-manufacturing

​
I'm just trying to get straight on what "not for sale" really means. This sort of verbiage is notoriously vague, and can be interpreted with wide range for political expediencey...

So essentially, the way I read it, if an individual legally buys a receiver and all the parts, and assembles it, or gets it re-painted or DuraCoated, as long as it's for personal use and not intended for immediate resale, it's OK.

All those regulations and rules about "gunsmiths" and "companies" don't apply to individuals, like sending parts out to another company to get blued, parkerized, colorized or heat-treated, or attaching non-standard sights, or whatever, correct?

As long as you stay away from NFA configurations, and all the parts are purchased through legal channels, it's all good, right?

I just don't want to run afoul of any obscure laws.
 
killchain

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You know, it still boggles my mind how the powers that be get all crotchety about a "short barreled rifle" but having an AR pistol is okay.

Don't take this as me saying owning an AR pistol is bad. More power to you. :) I just think if I want a short rifle on my AR15 I shouldn't have to sell my soul to the BAFTE.
 
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.45ACPaddy

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Since the stripped lower receiver is the transferable part then you can add whatever you want to it. It's the same as buying a Mossberg 500 and putting a different length barrel, grips, etc. on it. If you were to machine a lower from a block of aluminum, then you'd have a problem. When you buy the stripped lower, you fill out the 4473 and the background check is done. Buying parts kits, stocks, buffer tubes/springs, charging handles, stripped uppers, bolts and bolt carriers, barrels, sights, hand guards, flash hiders, etc. don't require a 4473 to be filled out. If I wanted, I could buy everything but the stripped lower and not fill anything out. I could assemble the upper. But once I buy the stripped lower, I'd need to fill out the form and the FFL do the background check. Of course, if you were to buy a lower in a private sale, no background check is required, but they may want to see ID/CPL and write down the info anyway.
 
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kito109654

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G22Paddy wrote:
Since the stripped lower receiver is the transferable part then you can add whatever you want to it. It's the same as buying a Mossberg 500 and putting a different length barrel, grips, etc. on it. If you were to machine a lower from a block of aluminum, then you'd have a problem. When you buy the stripped lower, you fill out the 4473 and the background check is done. Buying parts kits, stocks, buffer tubes/springs, charging handles, stripped uppers, bolts and bolt carriers, barrels, sights, hand guards, flash hiders, etc. don't require a 4473 to be filled out. If I wanted, I could buy everything but the stripped lower and not fill anything out. I could assemble the upper. But once I buy the stripped lower, I'd need to fill out the form and the FFL do the background check. Of course, if you were to buy a lower in a private sale, no background check is required, but they may want to see ID/CPL and write down the info anyway.
Click to expand...
Actually, that or finishing an 80% lower is just fine. Then you have a "virgin" gun with no serial #.
 
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