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Thread: Stainless...can we see your verison of the OC pamphlet?

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    .
    Last edited by T Vance; 09-18-2010 at 11:36 PM.

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    Id like to see this as well

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    Since we are on the topic, when MOC is putting on a seminar, you CANNOT start passing out unreviewed, unapproved material. MOC leadership decides who runs the seminar and the materials used. Please keep that in mind for the future, stainless1911.

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    lol. Nice.

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    I was acting independently. There is nothing on the handout that said anything about MOC. Only a reference to OCDO.

    Unless you can provide a cite prohibiting this activity, I will continue promoting OC in any capacity I see fit. As most people know, I am at GLX constantly dealing with the public. I hand out trifolds, and talk to people about OC. Its been very effective, and there is nothing wrong with writing down some reasons to OC, and giving them to interested people.

    If I am working with MOC in an official capacity, then I will follow a protocol, providing that I am aware of it. If we wind up doing a seminar like this ons quarterly at Bass Pro, as was mensioned, I am interested in being a part of it. At that point, when and if I work in an official capacity with MOC, then we can discuss my activities further.

    I did find this activity BTW.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Open Carry

     

    You can openly carry a firearm in Michigan.There are certain places that have been made off limits to firearms contradicory to both the United States, and the Michigan constitutions however, so you must be aware of these laws before you can exercise your rights.

    You can find out the information you need at
    open carry .org and then click on the forums tab, scroll down to your state, and go from there.

    There are many benifits to carrying openly as opposed to concealed carry. And if you have a CPL (concealed pistol license) you may carry openly in several of the pistol free zones which prohibit concealed carry with the license.

    Open carry is a powerful deterrent to crime, far more than concealed carry, as the criminal or potensial criminal has no idea the presence of a concealed weapon. No one has ever been targeted because they were carrying openly. However, concealed pistol permit holders are attacked at exactly the same rate as everyone else.

    Up until a few years ago, and still today in some areas, concealed carry is frowned upon as being shady, or associated with evil intensions. Criminals do not openly carry a holstered weapon. It goes against their nature to want to hide their intensions and actions. Law abiding citizens who choose to arm themselves have nothing to hide. Let us, and law enforcement officers carry our guns openly.

    Open carry makes carrying a weapon for defense much simpler in the summer months where layers of clothing are impractical, and makes it easier acces to your weapon during the winter months.

    People do not run away in terror at the sight of a holstered weapon, in fact, most people never notice. There is a small exception of people who are alarmed, but they are the exception to the rule.

    Open carry allows you the ability to defend yourself without a CPL. Many people do not beleive in the idea of the need for a concealed pistol license for several reasons. They may be too young, (18-21), they may have certain misdemeanors on their records which have nothing to do with guns or violence. Some traffic infractions can prohibit a permit from being issued. Some CPL holders may have gotten suspended for inadvertantly carrying concealed in a prohibited place, they may be awaiting approval, or their license may have expired. And most importantly, many beleive they shouldnt have to ask the government for permission to use, and to pay for their constitutional and inalienable right to keep and bear arms.

    Open carry is an advantage to our law enforcement officers as well. The officer can immediately distinguish between the law abiding, and the criminal, who will be concealing their weapons. The officer can observe the person and their actions in question, from a safe distance to determine if the person is a threat or if they are simply exercising their rights, and taking their own responsibility to protect themselves.

    Open carry is at the forefront of the preservation of our second amendment civil rights. We dont protect the constitution because of an oath we swore, we do it out of self preservation, and the love of our country. We do not hide our rights in our pockets. Open carry is the easiest, best and cheapest way to promote these rights. And to show the public there is a difference between an armed criminal, and an armed citizen.

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    This is not my version of the MOC pamphlet, but I find your intensional choice of words more than a little bit manipulative.

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    stainless1911 wrote:
    This is not my version of the MOC pamphlet, but I find your intensional choice of words more than a little bit manipulative.
    So are you not going to post your version?

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    I did.

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    Stainless - what you fail to realize is that when MOC is sponsoring an event - any information disseminated at that event will LOOK LIKE it came from MOC.

    So what you effectively have done is handed out potentially false (at the very least un-vetted) information to a group of people, all whom think MOC handed it out and reviewed its content for accuracy.

    What happens if you put something in there that was false, and an individual loses their CPL as you did?

    What if MOC gets sued because this happens to someone based on your information?

    You have shown once, very publicly, that you don't think before you act. You've just done so again. Good job.

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    FYI, I found 2 words mis-spelled.


    Open carry is a powerful deterrent to crime, far more than concealed carry, as the criminal or potential criminal has no idea the presence of a concealed weapon. No one has ever been targeted because they were carrying openly. However, concealed pistol permit holders are attacked at exactly the same rate as everyone else.

    Up until a few years ago, and still today in some areas, concealed carry is frowned upon as being shady, or associated with evil intensions. Criminals do not openly carry a holstered weapon. It goes against their nature to want to hide their intentions and actions. Law abiding citizens who choose to arm themselves have nothing to hide. Let us, and law enforcement officers carry our guns openly.
    "I like users who quote smellslikemichigan in their signature lines." - fozzy71

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    Uhhh, not trying to take sides, but whats wrong with passing out your own info?...i mean...if i go to disney land and kick mickey in the balls.....Disney Land doesnt get sued, i do.... if someone is taking the actions to inform other people more so than most, why wouldnt you support them?, is stainless even an MOC member?
    "If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." -- Samuel Adams, 1776

    An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject

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    zigziggityzoo wrote:

    You have shown once, very publicly, that you don't think before you act. You've just done so again. Good job.
    And how do you suppose I did that? By being ticketed for something that I did not do?

    I doubt that MOC would have even been aware of this opportunity If I hadnt put it on the site myself, inviting people to show up.

    What people assume is not my responsibility.

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    You know, I am getting abit tired of MOC, Inc. putting their business on OCDO.

    MOC, Inc. has a forum of their own. Go there, stay there, and keep your business there.

    MOC, Inc. isn't the know all be all of Open Carry. This is an OCDO Michigan Forum and is not under the control of MOC, Inc. .

    While Stainless produced a flyer 'unvetted' by MOC, Inc. they do not have the right to denigrate him for trying to do his part to educate the public on open carry. The document contains spelling errors but does not contain anything at all that is not relevent to the cause.

    The self appointed denizens of MOC, Inc. should take their opinions to their own forum and refrain from attempting to take over OCDO with their nonsense.

    Mel



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    American Boy With a Gun wrote:
    Uhhh, not trying to take sides, but whats wrong with passing out your own info?...i mean...if i go to disney land and kick mickey in the balls.....Disney Land doesnt get sued, i do.... if someone is taking the actions to inform other people more so than most, why wouldnt you support them?, is stainless even an MOC member?
    Nothing is wrong with passing out info. That, talking to people, and OCing is how this whole open carry thing got started to begin with.

    Now people are becoming arrogant, and legalistic.

    I am a member of MOC. But I was not working for them.

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    mel5051 wrote:
    While Stainless produced a flyer 'unvetted' by MOC, Inc. they do not have the right to denigrate him for trying to do his part to educate the public on open carry. The document contains spelling errors but does not contain anything at all that is not relevent to the cause.

    .

    Mel

    Thank you.

    If anyone else can find any misinformation on what I handed out let me know. If I missed something, let me know.

    My intension is to promote OC everywhere I go. Paying 20$ to MOC to become a member, and to support our cause, did in no way inticate that I would lessen my ability or means by which I choose to deal with the general public on OC.

    As I have said before, I will be happy to work with MOC at these events in an official capacity in the future, but if there is to be a protocol, it needs to be discussed and understood by all parties beforehand.

    .

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    As my only reply to this message on this forum because I do know that this is not our forum.I just want to make sure that in no way did STAINLESS'S information have a Header with Michigan Open Carry Inc. or referenced in the form pointing to the website.Without prior approval of a board member.

    I would be interested in seeing the flyer he printed out!!

    http://forums.michiganopencarry.org/...hp?topic=226.0

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    I posted it a couple minutes ago. Here it is again.

    Open Carry

     

    You can openly carry a firearm in Michigan.There are certain places that have been made off limits to firearms contradicory to both the United States, and the Michigan constitutions however, so you must be aware of these laws before you can exercise your rights.

    You can find out the information you need at
    open carry .org and then click on the forums tab, scroll down to your state, and go from there.

    There are many benifits to carrying openly as opposed to concealed carry. And if you have a CPL (concealed pistol license) you may carry openly in several of the pistol free zones which prohibit concealed carry with the license.

    Open carry is a powerful deterrent to crime, far more than concealed carry, as the criminal or potensial criminal has no idea the presence of a concealed weapon. No one has ever been targeted because they were carrying openly. However, concealed pistol permit holders are attacked at exactly the same rate as everyone else.

    Up until a few years ago, and still today in some areas, concealed carry is frowned upon as being shady, or associated with evil intensions. Criminals do not openly carry a holstered weapon. It goes against their nature to want to hide their intensions and actions. Law abiding citizens who choose to arm themselves have nothing to hide. Let us, and law enforcement officers carry our guns openly.

    Open carry makes carrying a weapon for defense much simpler in the summer months where layers of clothing are impractical, and makes it easier acces to your weapon during the winter months.

    People do not run away in terror at the sight of a holstered weapon, in fact, most people never notice. There is a small exception of people who are alarmed, but they are the exception to the rule.

    Open carry allows you the ability to defend yourself without a CPL. Many people do not beleive in the idea of the need for a concealed pistol license for several reasons. They may be too young, (18-21), they may have certain misdemeanors on their records which have nothing to do with guns or violence. Some traffic infractions can prohibit a permit from being issued. Some CPL holders may have gotten suspended for inadvertantly carrying concealed in a prohibited place, they may be awaiting approval, or their license may have expired. And most importantly, many beleive they shouldnt have to ask the government for permission to use, and to pay for their constitutional and inalienable right to keep and bear arms.

    Open carry is an advantage to our law enforcement officers as well. The officer can immediately distinguish between the law abiding, and the criminal, who will be concealing their weapons. The officer can observe the person and their actions in question, from a safe distance to determine if the person is a threat or if they are simply exercising their rights, and taking their own responsibility to protect themselves.

    Open carry is at the forefront of the preservation of our second amendment civil rights. We dont protect the constitution because of an oath we swore, we do it out of self preservation, and the love of our country. We do not hide our rights in our pockets. Open carry is the easiest, best and cheapest way to promote these rights. And to show the public there is a difference between an armed criminal, and an armed citizen.

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    i think stainless1911's OC information flyer is a well written and informative
    document presenting the basic ins and outs, pros and cons, whys and why nots of OC.
    he didnt give legal advice, and he didnt implicate MOC in any way, shape of form.

    im wondering now if MOC has their own information flyer to hand out?
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    just the trifold.

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    .
    Last edited by T Vance; 09-18-2010 at 11:36 PM.

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    Nobody owns open carry as long as he is not using MOC's name he is free to do what he wants to promote it.

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    choover wrote:
    Nobody owns open carry as long as he is not using MOC's name he is free to do what he wants to promote it.
    Agreed as long as he isn't setting at a moc booth handing out his flyer or imply he is representing moc in any way when he is handing out his flyer.That is correct and all I wanted to express.

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    mel5051 wrote:
    You know, I am getting abit tired of MOC, Inc. putting their business on OCDO.

    Mel

    With all due respect, and I do respect you, This diddnt have anything to do with any MOC official buisiness.

    MOC got in on the Bass Pro thing, after I pointed it out here on OCDO. ThenThis thread happened.

    For what its worth, I started a thread on MOC based on your comment, in an effort to satisfy everyone.

    http://forums.michiganopencarry.org/...27.msg1309#new

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    T Vance wrote:
    1245A Defender wrote:
    i think stainless1911's OC information flyer is a well written and informative
    document presenting the basic ins and outs, pros and cons, whys and why nots of OC.
    he didnt give legal advice, and he didnt implicate MOC in any way, shape of form.
    I agree.
    There was some confusion with people who didn't go to the seminar and only had stainless's flyer.

    Wouldn't the best course of action have been to maybe have a couple people proofread it for accuracy before handing out to everybody. Instead it was just one persons opinion of OC. If it was good maybe we would hand it out at all of the events.

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    mel5051 wrote:
    You know, I am getting abit tired of MOC, Inc. putting their business on OCDO.*

    MOC, Inc. has a forum of their own. Go there, stay there, and keep your business there.

    MOC, Inc. isn't the know all be all of Open Carry.* This is an OCDO Michigan Forum and is not under the control of MOC, Inc. .

    While Stainless produced a flyer 'unvetted' by MOC, Inc. they do not have the right to denigrate him for trying to do his part to educate the public on open carry.* The document contains spelling errors but does not contain anything at all that is not relevent to the cause.

    The self appointed denizens of MOC, Inc. should take their opinions to their own forum and refrain from attempting to take over OCDO with their nonsense.

    Mel

    mel as you may have noticed this thread was not started by the MOC leadership. please note that we are trying to keep our business in our own house. however we cannot control all of our members nor should we imop.

    as far as i am concerned we can post any relevent conversation over here that we choose to. we can also respond as we see fit within the COC of this forum.
    I do agree that the leadership should not post some things that pertain to moc members only. And we are not as far as I can see.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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