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Thread: can you conceal carry a long arm?

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    like a rifle or shotgun? are there any rcws that prevent you from carrying a long gun concealed? also, is a pistol grip shotgun with a 17" barrell considered a long arm

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    Shotguns have to have a barrel length at least 18" long. Even with a pistol grip, it's still a long arm.
    Quote Originally Posted by SayWhat View Post

    Shooters before hooters.

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    I don't see any laws on it. Also, a 17" barrel isn't a shotgun, by law. I'm not sure how that would work.

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    A shotgun with a 17" barrel is NOT a long gun under federal law. It is a Short Barrel Shotgun, and is an NFA-regulated item.

    If you buy it ready-made with the short barrel and pistol grip from a registered manufacturer, there is a $5 transfer fee, but all NFA rules still apply (NFA background check, etc).

    If you make it yourself by modifying a "regular" shotgun, there is a $200 "transfer fee" and you must possess the BATFE Tax Stamp and NFA paperwork to legally possess an SBS. And you'll need to start the process for the tax stamp BEFORE you modify the firearm, because you must have the stamp the instant you "take possession" of such an NFA-regulated item. And the minute you finish your modifications to a shotgun to make it an SBS, you have "taken possession" of it...

    Good luck with that...

    Carrying an NFA-regulated weapon on your person for personal defense is a risky game. If you should ever have to use it, or be stopped by an LEO and questioned about it, you'd better have a copy of the NFA paperwork and stamp in your wallet to prove it's legally possessed, or you're going to be looking at a VERY expensive and drawn-out encounter that will most likely involve handcuffs, the BATFE, possibly the FBI, and a LOT of lawyers.

    And even if you are eventually cleared, you're going to have a heck of a time getting your SBS back, because most likely it's not going to be the local LEO's who end up with it, but rather the BATFE. And you're most likely going to have to sue them to get it back, because they are going to seize it under either the Federal Asset Forfeiture laws or the NFA laws which mean that you are guilty until proven innoscent. These types of sezures are often VERY troublesome, because they'll probably going to mark you in their database as being "ineligible" for owning NFA items, and the only way to get off that list--even if you are cleared by the courts, or your local LEA is to file a lawsuit against the feds. And believe me, they have a LOT more time, money, and lawyers than you do.

    And of course, some states have laws restricting the carrying of concealed firearms above and beyond NFA rules. I can't speak to WA, but here in NC, the permit is entitled "Concealed Handgun Permit". And under our law (and federal law) an SBS is NOT a "handgun". So carrying an SBS concealed would not be legal in NC, or many other states with similar stipulations on their CC permits.

    Of course, your laws bay be different out there, so do your research...
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    I know this isn't really answering your question, but doesn't Washington State ban "sawed off shotguns" and automatic firearms for citizens? I know they're not illegal on a federal level, but doesn't our state restrict them? Or am I mistaken?

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    I believe you are correct, Aaron. No full autos, no SBR or SBS, or AOWs, no using of suppressors, no manufacture of any of the above under the state statutes, if I am correct on all counts.
    I have plans to rent some full auto stuff next time I get to Vegas, just so I can trip the giggle switch.... :celebrate

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    TROLL ALERT!



    11) This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life. Do not start OFF TOPIC threads or discussions such aspromoting the carry of long guns. Long guns are great! OCDO co-founders John & Mike and most of the folks on this forum own at least one long gun - but due to urban area issues of muzzle control, lack of trigger guard coverage, and the fact that the long gun carry issue distracts from our main mission to promote the open carry of handguns in daily life, we will leave long gun carry activism in the capable hands of the future founders of web sites about long gun carry.


    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum1/1.html
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    Tony Santiago wrote:
    [can you conceal carry a long arm?] like a rifle or shotgun? are there any rcws that prevent you from carrying a long gun concealed?
    Do you want to conceal carry a long gun?

    If so, why?

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    Hey, there you are HankT. Haven't seen you around in a while... :?
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    SpyderTattoo wrote:
    Hey, there you are HankT. Haven't seen you around in a while... :?
    Of course you haven't....he's in 'invisible mode'...

    Just a quick observation...WA has a "Concealed Pistol License," not a "Concealed Weapons Permit/License." The CPL does not cover anything, to my knowledge, than pistols. I don't think you could argue that a CPL covers samurai swords, spiked mace-clubs, bullwhips or rifles...so the answer would be a short- "No."

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    G20-IWB24/7 wrote:
    SpyderTattoo wrote:
    Hey, there you are HankT. Haven't seen you around in a while... :?
    Of course you haven't....he's in 'invisible mode'...

    Just a quick observation...WA has a "Concealed Pistol License," not a "Concealed Weapons Permit/License." The CPL does not cover anything, to my knowledge, than pistols. I don't think you could argue that a CPL covers samurai swords, spiked mace-clubs, bullwhips or rifles...so the answer would be a short- "No."

    -G20
    Absent a law against concealing a non-pistol, it would be legal.

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    Hammer wrote:
    I believe you are correct, Aaron. No full autos, no SBR or SBS, or AOWs, no using of suppressors, no manufacture of any of the above under the state statutes, if I am correct on all counts.
    I have plans to rent some full auto stuff next time I get to Vegas, just so I can trip the giggle switch.... :celebrate
    Actually WA does allow private ownership of AOW's and silencers. But there is a law against using a silencer.

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    No, since a CPL covers pistols, not long guns, which would fall under carrying a concealed weapon, RCW 9.41.250.

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    cynicist wrote:
    No, since a CPL covers pistols, not long guns, which would fall under carrying a concealed weapon, RCW 9.41.250.
    If one were to CC a long arm and not act: furtive adjective - backstair, catlike, clandestine, cloaked, concealed, covert, crafty, cunning, deceitful, feline, furtivus, hangdog, hidden, indirect, insidious, masked, mysterious, private, secret, secretive, shady, shifty, shrouded, sly, sneaking, sneaky, stealthy, subtle, surreptitious, thievish, undercover, underground, underhand, undisclosed, unobtrusive, unrevealed, unseen, veiled...

    or in other words, gayfully hopping down the street with not one bit of the above behavior, would it still be considered unlawful?

    I guess I'm asking if "furtively carries with intent to conceal" has more meaning than simply "concealing".

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    fight4your_rights wrote:
    cynicist wrote:
    No, since a CPL covers pistols, not long guns, which would fall under carrying a concealed weapon, RCW 9.41.250.
    If one were to CC a long arm and not act: furtive adjective - backstair, catlike, clandestine, cloaked, concealed, covert, crafty, cunning, deceitful, feline, furtivus, hangdog, hidden, indirect, insidious, masked, mysterious, private, secret, secretive, shady, shifty, shrouded, sly, sneaking, sneaky, stealthy, subtle, surreptitious, thievish, undercover, underground, underhand, undisclosed, unobtrusive, unrevealed, unseen, veiled...

    or in other words, gayfully hopping down the street with not one bit of the above behavior, would it still be considered unlawful?

    I guess I'm asking if "furtively carries with intent to conceal" has more meaning than simply "concealing".
    Really. Seriously. How are you going to hide a rifle? Or a "short barrel shotgun?" It's 90+ degrees out there. You gonna sport the trench coat?

    [EDIT]Jeez. Just buy a Judge if you want a shot shell. Or LEARN HOW TO SHOOT.
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." -John Stuart Mill

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    killchain wrote:
    Really. Seriously. How are you going to hide a rifle? Or a "short barrel shotgun?" It's 90+ degrees out there. You gonna sport the trench coat?

    [EDIT]Jeez. Just buy a Judge if you want a shot shell. Or LEARN HOW TO SHOOT.
    Lol, I use a Benelli M1 for shot shells.

    Although I don't plan on carrying a concealed long arm like the OP asked, I do appreciate your attempt at answering my legal question. Perhaps I should just contact the State AG for his opinion.


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    I find it rather dubious when folks here get preachy about 'why would you ever want to carry ____', and yet whine when someone looks at them funny for carrying a handgun openly.

    That's news to me that 'Open Carry.org' is solely about handguns, and to the exclusion of long guns. All you handgun owners who frown on carrying longguns should start the National Handgun Association and disown the National Rifle Association to be consistent.

    Yes I'm being sarcastic, though it is to make a point. My experience carrying a rifle to the Second Amendment rally in Olympia eerily mirrored many folks experience carrying a handgun in public. Everyone, especially some of your gun-lovin' friends, warned you you would be arrested, warned you it would sour non gun-lovin' folks toward gun lovers, etc, etc. And what happened?
    Nothing.
    I carried an HK-91 .308 clone rifle through the State Capitol, and heard nary a peep. Tourists underfoot, and so forth.

    Wanna carry a long arm? There's no law preventing you from doing so. Someone disagree? If you can provide said law, I double-dog dare you to post it.

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    aktion wrote:
    I find it rather dubious when folks here get preachy about 'why would you ever want to carry ____', and yet whine when someone looks at them funny for carrying a handgun openly.

    That's news to me that 'Open Carry.org' is solely about handguns, and to the exclusion of long guns. All you handgun owners who frown on carrying longguns should start the National Handgun Association and disown the National Rifle Association to be consistent.

    Yes I'm being sarcastic, though it is to make a point. My experience carrying a rifle to the Second Amendment rally in Olympia eerily mirrored many folks experience carrying a handgun in public. Everyone, especially some of your gun-lovin' friends, warned you you would be arrested, warned you it would sour non gun-lovin' folks toward gun lovers, etc, etc. And what happened?
    Nothing.
    I carried an HK-91 .308 clone rifle through the State Capitol, and heard nary a peep. Tourists underfoot, and so forth.

    Wanna carry a long arm? There's no law preventing you from doing so. Someone disagree? If you can provide said law, I double-dog dare you to post it.
    It is against the rules of this forum, see above.

    You are correct, there is no law against it. However, I recommend that you examine state v Casad and state v Spencer as the courts have examined the conditions to which a long arm can be carried. There is still more ambiguity around a long arm carried in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons. You carried at the capital that would of fit the time, place, manner circumstance. Doing so in another place or at a different time in a different manner could run afoul of Casad or Spencer.
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    gogodawgs wrote:
    aktion wrote:
    I find it rather dubious when folks here get preachy about 'why would you ever want to carry ____', and yet whine when someone looks at them funny for carrying a handgun openly.

    That's news to me that 'Open Carry.org' is solely about handguns, and to the exclusion of long guns. All you handgun owners who frown on carrying longguns should start the National Handgun Association and disown the National Rifle Association to be consistent.

    Yes I'm being sarcastic, though it is to make a point. My experience carrying a rifle to the Second Amendment rally in Olympia eerily mirrored many folks experience carrying a handgun in public. Everyone, especially some of your gun-lovin' friends, warned you you would be arrested, warned you it would sour non gun-lovin' folks toward gun lovers, etc, etc. And what happened?
    Nothing.
    I carried an HK-91 .308 clone rifle through the State Capitol, and heard nary a peep. Tourists underfoot, and so forth.

    Wanna carry a long arm? There's no law preventing you from doing so. Someone disagree? If you can provide said law, I double-dog dare you to post it.
    It is against the rules of this forum, see above.

    You are correct, there is no law against it. However, I recommend that you examine state v Casad and state v Spencer as the courts have examined the conditions to which a long arm can be carried. There is still more ambiguity around a long arm carried in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons. You carried at the capital that would of fit the time, place, manner circumstance. Doing so in another place or at a different time in a different manner could run afoul of Casad or Spencer.
    'It is against the rules of this forum, see above.'

    What?

    'You are correct, there is no law against it.'

    You could have stopped right there. Did you post the rest for the new members? Or are you a lawyer? Otherwise, do a little of your own research, and you'll find I've been discussing this subject off and on for some time, and I've heard the flimsy, bed-wetting arguments before, more times than I care to recall. Besides, if you were at the Second Amendment rally, you might realize that most passersby likely didn't even realize anyone was carrying a handgun unless they were standing right next to the OCers. So anyone walking through the Capitol building wouldn't have had the faintest idea what was going on outside.

    I couldn't care any less of 'running afoul of Casad or Spencer', whatever legal water that really holds anyway. As long as everyone is 'afraid of being a test case' as I've heard so many times, we'll all just chatter away wondering what it would be like. Article 24 of the Washington State Constitution and the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution are plenty for me. Remember, it is a right of the people, not a privilege to be exercised at the discretion of the state. Isn't that what the slogan 'A right unexercised is a right lost' means? Maybe I'm just crazy that way.

    It's fine with me if someone chooses to draw the line at carrying handguns, but to have those same folks squawk about longarms just baffles me. I'm used to catching flak from anti-gunners, not from pro-gunners.

    I am not a lawyer (:celebrate), and I avoid cautioning or advising people I don't even know on internet forums.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    aktion wrote:
    gogodawgs wrote:
    aktion wrote:
    I find it rather dubious when folks here get preachy about 'why would you ever want to carry ____', and yet whine when someone looks at them funny for carrying a handgun openly.

    That's news to me that 'Open Carry.org' is solely about handguns, and to the exclusion of long guns. All you handgun owners who frown on carrying longguns should start the National Handgun Association and disown the National Rifle Association to be consistent.

    Yes I'm being sarcastic, though it is to make a point. My experience carrying a rifle to the Second Amendment rally in Olympia eerily mirrored many folks experience carrying a handgun in public. Everyone, especially some of your gun-lovin' friends, warned you you would be arrested, warned you it would sour non gun-lovin' folks toward gun lovers, etc, etc. And what happened?
    Nothing.
    I carried an HK-91 .308 clone rifle through the State Capitol, and heard nary a peep. Tourists underfoot, and so forth.

    Wanna carry a long arm? There's no law preventing you from doing so. Someone disagree? If you can provide said law, I double-dog dare you to post it.
    It is against the rules of this forum, see above.

    You are correct, there is no law against it. However, I recommend that you examine state v Casad and state v Spencer as the courts have examined the conditions to which a long arm can be carried. There is still more ambiguity around a long arm carried in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons. You carried at the capital that would of fit the time, place, manner circumstance. Doing so in another place or at a different time in a different manner could run afoul of Casad or Spencer.
    'It is against the rules of this forum, see above.'

    What?

    'You are correct, there is no law against it.'

    You could have stopped right there. Did you post the rest for the new members? Or are you a lawyer? Otherwise, do a little of your own research, and you'll find I've been discussing this subject off and on for some time, and I've heard the flimsy, bed-wetting arguments before, more times than I care to recall. Besides, if you were at the Second Amendment rally, you might realize that most passersby likely didn't even realize anyone was carrying a handgun unless they were standing right next to the OCers. So anyone walking through the Capitol building wouldn't have had the faintest idea what was going on outside.

    I couldn't care any less of 'running afoul of Casad or Spencer', whatever legal water that really holds anyway. As long as everyone is 'afraid of being a test case' as I've heard so many times, we'll all just chatter away wondering what it would be like. Article 24 of the Washington State Constitution and the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution are plenty for me. Remember, it is a right of the people, not a privilege to be exercised at the discretion of the state. Isn't that what the slogan 'A right unexercised is a right lost' means? Maybe I'm just crazy that way.

    It's fine with me if someone chooses to draw the line at carrying handguns, but to have those same folks squawk about longarms just baffles me. I'm used to catching flak from anti-gunners, not from pro-gunners.

    I am not a lawyer (:celebrate), and I avoid cautioning or advising people I don't even know on internet forums.
    Perhaps you have taken what I have said far too personal, that speaks to you not to me.

    I helped organize the rally, my daughters video recorded the rally. I was there at 8am.

    I sit at the open carry table at each gun show. I have been asked this question many times, and I will tell you this my answer is always "...shall not be infringed."

    I have never 'squawk'ed at carrying a long gun. I simply pointed out where it has been an issue.

    Thanks for the insults, they serve to show nothing constructive.
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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Oh, come now. Clearly that was not a barrage directed at you entirely.Or even mostly. Did I really need to spell out that I was addressing points in general, using a some that you made as a springboard? Who's taking things too personally?

    If I was attacking you, you would know it. Toughen up a little, I'm attempting to contribute to meaningful lively debate. Have you noticed most of the threads these days are hardly worth reading? Little or nothing to do with Open Carry often times.If you disagree with my methods or points, I'm ok with that.

    'Thanks for the insults'? Really? In the spirit of taking things too personally.....

    You're Welcome. I meant to make you feel bad on the internet because we disagree.



    Oh, and if you did help organize the Olympia rally, I extend my heartfelt appreciation to you. No sarcasm, no cynicism, just a thank you. I'd buy you a beer if we drank at the same bar.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    aktion wrote:
    Oh, come now. Clearly that was not a barrage directed at you entirely.Or even mostly. Did I really need to spell out that I was addressing points in general, using a some that you made as a springboard? Who's taking things too personally?

    If I was attacking you, you would know it. Toughen up a little, I'm attempting to contribute to meaningful lively debate. Have you noticed most of the threads these days are hardly worth reading? Little or nothing to do with Open Carry often times.If you disagree with my methods or points, I'm ok with that.

    'Thanks for the insults'? Really? In the spirit of taking things too personally.....

    You're Welcome. I meant to make you feel bad on the internet because we disagree.



    Oh, and if you did help organize the Olympia rally, I extend my heartfelt appreciation to you. No sarcasm, no cynicism, just a thank you. I'd buy you a beer if we drank at the same bar.
    I have plenty enough thick skin. Many threads are about things other than OC. I will call people on that too, and often enough we swerve back to a valueable topic.

    I did my small part at the rally. I give most credit to David and Jim (ADAMS and Deros), but they will vouch for me, a raincheck on the beer.

    Again, I classify my view as "...shall not be infringed." That always drives the crowd at the gun show nuts, handguns, long guns, machine guns should all be allowed.
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    'Again, I classify my view as "...shall not be infringed." That always drives the crowd at the gun show nuts, handguns, long guns, machine guns should all be allowed.'

    Huzzah! We're shoulder to shoulder on that one! I'll keep the beer on ice.

  25. #25
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    I don't see why you couldn't, although there are laws against the furtive concealment of weapons. And if you want to get technical, one might even be able to argue that the definition for a handgun might include a pistol gripped shotgun in this state.

    More importantly though, other than sheer mental masturbation, I can't see the issue coming up. It's just not practical to conceal a long arm

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