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Thread: OC on private property that isn't yours?

  1. #1
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Under MD law, it is legal to OC on your own pivate property.

    But if I were on someone else's private property, and I had their permission of OC, would it be legal, since it's not property that I own?

    For instance, if I were visiting a family member in MD, and they owned their property, could I OC in their back yard if I had their permission?
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    Dreamer wrote:
    Under MD law, it is legal to OC on your own pivate property.

    But if I were on someone else's private property, and I had their permission of OC, would it be legal, since it's not property that I own?

    For instance, if I were visiting a family member in MD, and they owned their property, could I OC in their back yard if I had their permission?
    The way I read 4-203, NO. but give the person a buck and it's now a lease IMO

    4-203 portion quoted:
    6) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a person on real estate that the person owns or leases or where the person resides or within the confines of a business establishment that the person owns or leases;

  3. #3
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    OK, So aside from not recognizing the 2A, apparently MD does not recognize the sovereignty of Private Property either.

    Why does that not surprise me...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    . You asked a question I posed a possible answer.



    And The MD bashing is getting a bit old

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    Regular Member Mr H's Avatar
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    swinokur wrote:
    And The MD bashing is getting a bit old
    I grew up in MD, and came back to MD to raise my boys.

    It's a wonderful place... but Dreamer's right about the laws and "leadership", IMO.

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    Regular Member Sig229's Avatar
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    I thought if you have permission from the owner of the property you CAN OC and CC on his/her property. The same goes for a fixed place of business.
    This is why when you go to pawn shops and gun shops you see many of the employees OC'ing. Because the owner gave them permission.
    "Let your gun be your constant companion during your walks" ~Thomas Jefferson

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    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    Sig229 wrote:
    I thought if you have permission from the owner of the property you CAN OC and CC on his/her property. The same goes for a fixed place of business.
    This is why when you go to pawn shops and gun shops you see many of the employees OC'ing. Because the owner gave them permission.
    the OP asked about private property. I think private property and businesses are different.

    4-203 makes no mention of permission from the owner for private porperty IIRC. It does make that stipulation for businesses however.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Sig229's Avatar
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    swinokur wrote:
    Sig229 wrote:
    I thought if you have permission from the owner of the property you CAN OC and CC on his/her property. The same goes for a fixed place of business.
    This is why when you go to pawn shops and gun shops you see many of the employees OC'ing. Because the owner gave them permission.
    the OP asked about private property. I think private property and businesses are different.

    4-203 makes no mention of permission from the owner for private porperty IIRC. It does make that stipulation for businesses however.
    A privately owned business IS private property.
    "Let your gun be your constant companion during your walks" ~Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member Walt_Kowalski's Avatar
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    and this is why I don't visit MD, or spend money with business in MD
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"
    -- George Washington

  10. #10
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    swinokur wrote:
    Sig229 wrote:
    I thought if you have permission from the owner of the property you CAN OC and CC on his/her property. The same goes for a fixed place of business.
    This is why when you go to pawn shops and gun shops you see many of the employees OC'ing. Because the owner gave them permission.
    the OP asked about private property. I think private property and businesses are different.

    4-203 makes no mention of permission from the owner for private porperty IIRC. It does make that stipulation for businesses however.
    Technically, this is not entirely true. Under MD law, business owners do NOT have the authority to give permission to just any employee to carry, unless the employee is a SUPERVISOR.

    Here is the expanded, complete wording of the "private property and businesses" section of the MD code:

    MDCL § 4-203.
    (a) (1) Except as provided in subsection (b) of this section, a person may not:
    (i) wear, carry, or transport a handgun, whether concealed or open, on or about the person;
    (b) This section does not prohibit:
    (6) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a person on real estate that the person owns or leases or where the person resides or within the confines of a business establishment that the person owns or leases;
    (7) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a supervisory employee:
    (i) in the course of employment;


    (ii) within the confines of the business establishment in which the supervisory employee is employed; and
    (iii) when so authorized by the owner or manager of the business establishment

    So if you're not part of the "petit bourgeois" in MD, no guns for you on your private business property. The State has clearly stated that non-supervisory employees can't be trusted in the PRM.
    In MD, the Right To Keep and Bear Arms only applies if you're "the boss".


    Constitution? They don't need no stinkin' Constitution?

    Now sit down, shut up, and pay your taxes to the United Offices of Goldman Sachs/JP Morgan Chase... :quirky
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  11. #11
    Regular Member Sig229's Avatar
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    Dreamer wrote:
    swinokur wrote:
    Sig229 wrote:
    I thought if you have permission from the owner of the property you CAN OC and CC on his/her property. The same goes for a fixed place of business.
    This is why when you go to pawn shops and gun shops you see many of the employees OC'ing. Because the owner gave them permission.
    the OP asked about private property. I think private property and businesses are different.

    4-203 makes no mention of permission from the owner for private porperty IIRC. It does make that stipulation for businesses however.
    Technically, this is not entirely true. Under MD law, business owners do NOT have the authority to give permission to just any employee to carry, unless the employee is a SUPERVISOR.

    Here is the expanded, complete wording of the "private property and businesses" section of the MD code:

    MDCL § 4-203.
    (a) (1) Except as provided in subsection (b) of this section, a person may not:
    (i) wear, carry, or transport a handgun, whether concealed or open, on or about the person;
    (b) This section does not prohibit:
    (6) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a person on real estate that the person owns or leases or where the person resides or within the confines of a business establishment that the person owns or leases;
    (7) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a supervisory employee:
    (i) in the course of employment;


    (ii) within the confines of the business establishment in which the supervisory employee is employed; and
    (iii) when so authorized by the owner or manager of the business establishment

    So if you're not part of the "petit bourgeois" in MD, no guns for you on your private business property. The State has clearly stated that non-supervisory employees can't be trusted in the PRM.
    In MD, the Right To Keep and Bear Arms only applies if you're "the boss".


    Constitution? They don't need no stinkin' Constitution?

    Now sit down, shut up, and pay your taxes to the United Offices of Goldman Sachs/JP Morgan Chase... :quirky
    Damn, they must have changed that law since I moved out of MD. Christ things are going down hill faster and further than I have ever thought possible.

    By the way Dreamer, did you get my PM?
    "Let your gun be your constant companion during your walks" ~Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Sig229 wrote:
    By the way Dreamer, did you get my PM?
    Yes, and thank you.

    Pray for me--I'm driving up to the PRM this weekend to visit the girls...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Regular Member XD40coyote's Avatar
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    I've REALLY been wanting to walk around neighboring farm and woodlands, but with the possibility of strange people being where they shouldn't be ( meth lab or pot grower- not real common here, but ya never know), and the profusion of rabies and weird acting mangey foxes ( probably also rabies), not to mention 2 credible people I know who saw mt lion tracks in the general area last winter, I really wouldn't want to be walking around back in these places without some protection. My current crop of dogs are worthless for defense, so even they can't be used as a substitute. I do have 1 young cattle dog, but he is weird and I can't leash him if I needed to. I can't trust him off our property. So, amI suppossed to freakin sling my shotgun over my shoulder? Oh no, then someone might think I am poaching and call the a-hole DNR cops on me. That leaves me with OCing a big knife. But is it sharp enough? What if Mr Woods Junkie has a gun?



    There is also the roadway. I'd really like to walk down to this stream bridge, but you never know what weirdo bumpkin might drive by. I might be as strong as some thin little metrosexual man, or be able to overcome some 80 year old man,but I can't take on 30 year old 250 pound Bubba.

    This state is such a freakin joke...

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    Regular Member Sig229's Avatar
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    XD40coyote wrote:

    This state is such a freakin joke...
    'Tis a joke indeed....

    Yes, in the MD countryside there are plenty of predatory animals that one would need to protect his/herself from.

    But Baltimore city and the DC suburbs have many predatory animals that require the ability to defend oneself and family from as well. (they walk on two legs though)
    Thats where the law abiding people REALLY suffer because of Maryland's horrible lack of gun rights.

    I dont know what your situation in life is, but if i were you I would make it my life's mission to get the hell out of Maryland.
    Lets not forget that when you pay your taxes, you are paying the salary of the MD politicians that take away your rights.

    From what you have posted before, it sounds like you only have a few miles north to move (or escape).
    I know that I REFUSED to raise a family in Maryland.


    "Let your gun be your constant companion during your walks" ~Thomas Jefferson

  15. #15
    Regular Member XD40coyote's Avatar
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    Sig229 wrote:
    XD40coyote wrote:

    This state is such a freakin joke...
    'Tis a joke indeed....

    Yes, in the MD countryside there are plenty of predatory animals that one would need to protect his/herself from.

    But Baltimore city and the DC suburbs have many predatory animals that require the ability to defend oneself and family from as well. (they walk on two legs though)
    Thats where the law abiding people REALLY suffer because of Maryland's horrible lack of gun rights.

    I dont know what your situation in life is, but if i were you I would make it my life's mission to get the hell out of Maryland.
    Lets not forget that when you pay your taxes, you are paying the salary of the MD politicians that take away your rights.

    From what you have posted before, it sounds like you only have a few miles north to move (or escape).
    I know that I REFUSED to raise a family in Maryland.

    I am self employed and apparently alot of men in the area are afraid of female taxidermists or something( I have actual true stories). So, due to not enough income year after year, I am stuck here for now. The economy as it is now makes it even worst. I did actually move to PA for 2 years, but I did not get enough work in to pay all the enormous bills, and the whole affair was a major money pit. I had no choice but to sell the property and move back to the parental compound. I managed to hang on as long as I did by selling fox and skunk mounts on ebay. That market has almost dried up now though. People simply won't bid for whatmy stuff is worth.

    I haven't ever owed MD any income taxes as far as I can recall. I simply don't make enough money. I have had to pay to the IRS though. Not sure how all that works, as I have a tax preparer do the work for me as I am terrible at math/accounting related things. As to sales tax, I do a service, not selling goods. Ebay is almost always out of state sales. I don't spend much money in MD. So my giving MD money via sales tax is on the very low amount scale.

    I've been working on my parents to retire to some farmette or another in PA, my dad is fine with it esp since PA doesn't tax retirement income. But my mother is hellbent on moving to Gulf coast FL, whichI despise since they don't have general OC in FL,and the taxidermists down there are oftentimes cheap bastards and how can I compete? Oh it might be fun shooting wild hogs and gator hunting and such,as well assnaring otters, but that's about the only thing I'd like. I want general OC, andI want REAL trapping too. That includes the grey foxes, but FL is stupid with overpopulated foxes being closed season!

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