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Thread: And they say we're the bad guys with guns?

  1. #1
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    Title pretty much sums it up. Link below:

    http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/05/16/...ef=igoogle_cnn



    -Landose-
    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

  2. #2
    McX
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    the father's anguish is palpable. and this seems to show an alarming emerging trend; errant shootings by police. this instance, the guy on the motorcycle- shot in the back. makes one wonder; are the police receiving adequate training? are they thoroughly versed on the laws? are they aware of the consequences if they act without responsibility? alot of questions, and an emerging cause for alarm?

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    Hold on now, let's be fair. The article states that the officer was in a physical altercation with a woman as he entered the home. It could have very well been the woman that fired the gun that killed this child.

    There are statements made by the family that the police had the wrong house when in fact the individual they were looking for was found in the home as well as other evidence.

    There is a difference between an arrant shooting and a person attempting to disarm a police officer causing the firearm to discharge.

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    indeed this does seem to be an alarming new trend among LE. I seem to remember not too long ago a swat team executed a search warrant and shot and killed the homeowners dog, but I guess in that instance it's justafiable because of the large amount of pot recovered at the scene( a whopping 7 grams!!). Now that's what I call police work!
    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

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    McX
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    yes, landose, i forgot about that one too! are society's ills coming to rest within the organizations sworn to protect us?!

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    McX wrote:
    yes, landose, i forgot about that one too! are society's ills coming to rest within the organizations sworn to protect us?!
    It sure does seem that way. And yet WAVE,and Brady have nothing to say about the two above mentioned stories? Had it been one of us, the media would be in a frenzy and we'd be behind bars untill proven guilty. But I guess it's ok because they have "Training" and a Badge. Damn double standards.
    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

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    All cops are pigs, or even Barney Fife.

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    Dustiniac wrote:
    All cops are pigs, or even Barney Fife.
    Now, now, Dusty. That reads like cop-bashing.

    A no-no.





    This case of bad shooting is structurally similar to the recent case of a non-LEO civilian who had an interaction with a criminal and unwisely or accidentlydischarged his gun without adequate concern for what it was pointed at.

    The trend, if it is really there, would likelyinclude both LEOs and LACs.



    Man charged in stray bullet killing of woman, 69

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/44259.html

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    It is cop bashing.

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    Dustiniac wrote:
    It is cop bashing.
    Do you know how many sworn law enforcement officers there are in this country, Dusty? Have any idea?

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    I certainly do not believe all police are bad. Absolutely not. I have two friends in law enforcement; one a deputy in New Mexico, the other a police officer in Alabama and a friends son who is an Oklahoma State Trooper (he doesn't count as my friend).

    All three of these individuals are great people and support the Oath they took. The police officer in Alabama was a Marine and is still in the Marine reserves with over 10 years service to our country. The deputy in N.M. was also in the military and takes his Oath to country seriously. These individuals would never violate their Oaths. Ever.

    I tend to think that most and hopefully every police officer takes his/her oath as most of us do (I know this isn't true but it is hopeful) and would never intentionally hurt anyone without that person or persons first attacking or threatening them.

    With that said I think the decision to send in the troops at 0040 is absolutely wrong. The police could just as easily have staked out the residence until daylight and waited. Now a child of 7 is dead. There are many instances of the police using these SWAT tactics entering homes at all hours of the day shooting and killing pets and causing harm to those in their homes.

    This is a terrible tragedy that should never have happened. The mentality that the police should charge in head first with flash bangs and guns ready to shoot must be changed.
    “The Constitution shall never be construed... to prevent the People of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.” -- Samuel Adams

    “Today, we need a nation of Minutemen. Citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.”

    —John F. Kennedy

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    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    HankT wrote:
    Dustiniac wrote:
    It is cop bashing.
    Do you know how many sworn law enforcement officers there are in this country, Dusty? Have any idea?
    What does this have to do with how Dustinaiac feels? Some people just dont like cops, knowing how many are in this or any other country wont change that.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

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    J.Gleason wrote:
    Hold on now, let's be fair. The article states that the officer was in a physical altercation with a woman as he entered the home. It could have very well been the woman that fired the gun that killed this child.

    There are statements made by the family that the police had the wrong house when in fact the individual they were looking for was found in the home as well as other evidence.

    There is a difference between an arrant shooting and a person attempting to disarm a police officer causing the firearm to discharge.
    Fieger claims he has video(s) showing the shot was fired before the officer entered the house--at this point who knows? I guess he's waiting to see if DPD steps up to the plate and admits to wrong doing before he releases the vids to MSP and the public.

    http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in..._on_aiyan.html

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    Regular Member rscottie's Avatar
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    There is more to this story now.

    http://www.detnews.com/article/20100...1/1409/METRO08

    Last Updated: May 17. 2010 5:02PM

    Crime show taped Detroit raid that led to 7-year-old's death George Hunter and Paul Egan / The Detroit News Detroit -- An attorney representing the family of a 7-year-old girl shot to death during a Sunday morning raid says the family knows the Detroit police officer who fired the fatal shot is "not a monster" but said the police operation was flawed and influenced by TV production concerns.

    The police "were excited; they were on TV," said Oak Park attorney Karri Mitchell, who is representing the family of Aiyana Jones. "They didn't have to throw a grenade through the front window when they knew there were children in there."

    The attempted arrest of a murder suspect at a two-unit house on Lillibridge on the city's east side was videotaped for an episode of "The First 48," a reality crime show on the Arts & Entertainment Network, said Detroit police spokesman John Roach.
    Investigators are poring over the videotape the TV crew shot to help determine what happened, Roach said.

    He said Charles Jones, the father of the slain girl, lives at one apartment, and the murder suspect was arrested in the other apartment in the home.

    "There was nothing but innocent people in the home where they put this flash grenade," Mitchell said.

    He said he feels the police have tried to shift the blame for the shooting onto the child's grandmother, and he is unhappy about that. "All they had to do is say, 'We made a mistake and we're sorry,' " he said.

    The victim's family said Sunday police told them the gun discharged because the girl's grandmother, Mertilla Jones, 46, grappled for the officer's weapon. Later Sunday, Roach said the officer and grandmother may have simply collided.

    "We're not indicating the officer's actions were intentional," Mitchell said. "We know it was an accident, but the method that they used in executing the search warrant was flawed. The family understands that the officer is not a monster. He didn't intentionally shoot a 7-year-old girl."

    Police had been seeking a 34-year-old suspect in Friday's slaying of 17-year-old Southeastern High School student Jerean Blake, who was gunned down outside a liquor store near the corner of Mack Avenue and St. Jean.

    Witnesses say at least 20 officers were on hand for the raid. A "flash grenade" -- an incendiary device that emits a blinding flash and a loud noise in order to disorient suspects -- was thrown through a downstairs window before at least one officer entered the flat.

    Family members say the flash grenade landed on Aiyana, who was sleeping on a front-room couch.

    The no-knock search warrant allowed police to search both the upper and lower flats.
    The Detroit Board of Police Commissioners has launched an investigation into the matter. The Michigan State Police are also investigating.

    "We want to see if the proper procedure and police was used, and what measures can be instigated with regard to policy development that can minimize the future incidents like this," said the commission's chair, Mohamed Okdie.

    Police officials were careful Sunday to avoid calling the shooting accidental, or make any other characterizations about the case.

    Detroit's Homicide Section regularly featured on "The First 48," which airs on the Arts & Entertainment Network. Detroit Police Officer Ed Williams, who used his service weapon to kill his wife, Detroit Officer Patricia Williams, before turning the gun on himself in the parking lot of a Canton Township library, regularly appeared on the TV show.

    The A&E website touts the importance of police catching suspects quickly.

    "For homicide detectives, the clock starts ticking the moment they are called. Their chance of solving a case is cut in half if they don't get a lead in 'The First 48,' " the website says. "Each passing hour gives suspects more time to flee, witnesses more time to forget what they saw, and crucial evidence more time to be lost forever."

    Ron Scott, director of the Detroit Coalition Against Police Brutality, said he's never heard of police using flash grenades while executing search warrants.

    "That's usually done during barricaded gunman situations, but this is the first time I've ever heard of them doing it for a search warrant," Scott said.


    Some of the information above counters the early reports that spoke of someone fighting with the officer. Also, now they are saying that the suspect was in the other duplex and not where the girl was sleeping on the couch. Seems they also tossed the flash bang through the window on top of the girl before accidentally shooting her.

    This is a sad situation all the way around. There are way too many instances of no-knock warrants going bad across this country. They need to be severely limited. There is no reason why they cannot ask the suspect to come out with his hands on his head. At this point, he is not convicted and is innocent as far as the law goes.







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    rscottie wrote:
    The no-knock search warrant allowed police to search both the upper and lower flats.
    No-knock warrant raids are being discussed over in thread:

    You're door crashes down and you hear "POLICE!"



    Most posters there question the legality, appropriateness and danger to innocent citizens of no-knock warrants. Of course, we have the occasional supporter of such dangerous police tactics:

    eye95 wrote:
    The police need these kinds of warrants.


    I don't respect this fellow's opnion. Not one iota. He won't even explain WHY he thinks the police need to do such raids.

    I guess he doesn't have a 7-year-old daughter to worry about. Or he doesn't worry about anyone's 7-year-old daughter...

    Read the linked thread below for the whole quote and discussion.

    You're door crashes down and you hear "POLICE!"





    [b][color=blue][b][color=blue][b][color=blue]

  16. #16
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    apparently this became such a problem some time back that i think 60 minutes did a bit on it. surprise...............ooops, wrong house.

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    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    McX wrote:
    apparently this became such a problem some time back that i think 60 minutes did a bit on it. surprise...............ooops, wrong house.
    How can it be such a problem? According to E95 it is...."rare."

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    McX
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    how rare is rare? are we grading like steak; medium rare? how do the recipients of the rare feel. doubt any check in the mail would cover it. you wanna be rare? i don't!

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    By the way HankT, I was well on my way to becoming a LEO, until I realized the way they operate, and the mentality of the modern police force, is nothing I wanted a part of. I did my military service, I dont need to continue it.

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    They are in deep doodoo now! caught in a lie how perfect!

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    That story makes me very upset. I can't help but imagine ifthat was my house and my kids.

    Not that the cops would ever have a reason to invade my house, but I guess mistakes do happen.... c'est la vie.

  22. #22
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    HankT wrote:
    Dustiniac wrote:
    All cops are pigs, or even Barney Fife.
    Now, now, Dusty. That reads like cop-bashing.

    A no-no.

    HankT wrote:
    Dustiniac wrote:
    It is cop bashing.
    Do you know how many sworn law enforcement officers there are in this country, Dusty? Have any idea?
    Dustiniac wrote:
    By the way HankT, I was well on my way to becoming a LEO, until I realized the way they operate, and the mentality of the modern police force, is nothing I wanted a part of. I did my military service, I dont need to continue it.
    Youwould have been 1 out of how many LEOs, Dusti? Havean idea of how many LEOs there are in this country?







    bigdaddy1 wrote:
    What does this have to do with how Dustinaiac feels? Some people just dont like cops, knowing how many are in this or any other country wont change that.
    Shhh, I'm trying to set it up. What it has todo with, BD1,isDusti's credibility.

    Look, there are about 800,000LEOs in this country.

    So, if a guy says something like "All cops are pigs," then he is saying, "All 800,000 cops are pigs."

    That's simply not possible. It's a simplistic/absolutist statement. All we have to do is find 1 cop that isn't a "pig" and ole Dusti is provenwrong.

    That's the problem with absolutism. It's alwaysthe wrong approach to use to try to convince somebody of a belief.

    (I'm jes' kidding about "always.")






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    Didn't I already ask you to stop calling me that? So so far your credibility is zero. My opinion that cops are pigs has nothing to do with my credibility. Good cop, bad cop, they are all pigs. Thats my opinion. Don't like it? Too bad.

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    McX wrote:
    how rare is rare? are we grading like steak; medium rare? how do the recipients of the rare feel. doubt any check in the mail would cover it. you wanna be rare? i don't!
    I love this post!

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Dustiniac wrote:
    Didn't I already ask you to stop calling me that? So so far your credibility is zero. My opinion that cops are pigs has nothing to do with my credibility. Good cop, bad cop, they are all pigs. Thats my opinion. Don't like it? Too bad.
    lol, it's hard to argue with that. I actually kind of sympathize with this particular way of articulating it. (The astute observer may occasionally catch me snorting like a pig after a truffle at the sight of a bunch police cruisers performing some or other absurd enfarcement function). It's not that there aren't good cops, it's just that...

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