• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Pilot arrested for concealed carry at Atlanta Airport

HankT

State Researcher
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
6,215
Location
Invisible Mode
imported post

eye95 wrote:
Piercing the skin of a plane is not a real concern. The real fear would be damage to systems critical to maintaining flight. However, considering redundancy and other design features to aid in landing a crippled plane, I don't even worry about that.

I gotta wonder how much redundancy and design features were created with potentialbullet damage in mind.

You may elect to not even worry about that. But that choice may not be justified.
 

Eeyore

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2007
Messages
551
Location
the meanest city in the stupidest state
imported post

cabbitone wrote:
Looping back around past the potential problems back to the pilots themselves, is there anything in place precluding people with criminal histories(felons etc) from becoming commercial pilots?
There is no background check required to get a pilot's license, but all airlines and most other major aviation employers do a background check as part of the application process.
 

Eeyore

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2007
Messages
551
Location
the meanest city in the stupidest state
imported post

HankT wrote:
I gotta wonder how much redundancy and design features were created with potentialbullet damage in mind.

You may elect to not even worry about that. But that choice may not be justified.
Depends if you're considering a commercial airliner (none) or an A-10 (lots).

Nevertheless, it would be very, verydifficult for a handgun bullet (or bullets) to cripple an airliner, despite what you might have seen on TV or in the movies. Decompressions, an engine failure, hydraulic failure, fuel leaks--all these can be dealt with. Even certain failures of the flight controls can be overcome. Consider the Hawaiian 737 "convertible", the MD-11 crash in Iowa, and Sully's Hudson River excursion as examples of how airliners can survive (to varying degrees) massive damage .

This does not preclude the hypothetical "golden BB" that somehow does fatal damage (maybe hits a fuel line and electrical wiring simultaneously, causing an explosion). However, the statistical odds are such that I would be much more concerned with Iranian nuclear terrorism, alien invasion, or even zombies.

To sum up: as a commercial pilot, I elect not to worry about it and recommend everyone else follow suit. :cool:
 

HankT

State Researcher
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
6,215
Location
Invisible Mode
imported post

Eeyore wrote:
HankT wrote:
I gotta wonder how much redundancy and design features were created with potentialbullet damage in mind.

You may elect to not even worry about that. But that choice may not be justified.
Depends if you're considering a commercial airliner (none) or an A-10 (lots).

Nevertheless, it would be very, verydifficult for a handgun bullet (or bullets) to cripple an airliner, despite what you might have seen on TV or in the movies. Decompressions, an engine failure, hydraulic failure, fuel leaks--all these can be dealt with. Even certain failures of the flight controls can be overcome. Consider the Hawaiian 737 "convertible", the MD-11 crash in Iowa, and Sully's Hudson River excursion as examples of how airliners can survive (to varying degrees) massive damage .

This does not preclude the hypothetical "golden BB" that somehow does fatal damage (maybe hits a fuel line and electrical wiring simultaneously, causing an explosion). However, the statistical odds are such that I would be much more concerned with Iranian nuclear terrorism, alien invasion, or even zombies.

To sum up: as a commercial pilot, I elect not to worry about it and recommend everyone else follow suit. :cool:

Let's not consider an A-10.

So a gunshot to a fuel line coincident with a hit on electrical wiring might produce crippling damage? What wouldor couldhappen in such an event?

How much fuel liine and electrical wiring is there in a typical passenger airlner. Say a 757? Are there any other critical items that could cause serious problems if damaged/destroyed by a gunshot? Other than the pilot.

BTW, since you're a commercial pilot: Do you cary a gun onboard? What do you think of LACs onboard with guns, say if they had a CPL/CCW? How about OC?
 

donny

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
115
Location
, ,
imported post

As an currently employed ATP I'll make a few more comments:

1) As stated the odds of a bullet bringing down a transport category aircraft are astronomical due to the way they're designed and built. Other than the round causing an explosion (extremely unlikely) it's not going to happen. Add to that FFDOs and FAMs are permitted to carry only frangible ammo designed not to penetrate the aircraft's skin or seat backs.

2) Generally speaking LEOs that are not FAMS or FFDOs can't carry on board without following a specific vetting process which requires obtaining documentation prior to the flight. They must present this documentation prior to boarding and the flight crew must be informed of their presence and seating position.

3) FFDOs (whom when acting in their capacity are federal LEOs) are generally prohibited from revealing their status or discussing the program. You can certainly ask if a pilot is in the program but don't expect much in the way of answers.
 

Mike

Site Co-Founder
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
8,706
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
imported post

From what I have heard about the FFDO program, the requirement to encase the gun to/from the aircraft is partly to balme for the one negligent discharge - seems to me the policy should be to MINIMIZE gun handling - FFDOs should be allowed to carry concealed in their holster to from all flight assignments and official airline business and be federally exempt from all state carry laws while on duty like this.

I think this may take Congressional action as bureaucrats just have to have their complicated and often silly/dangerous rules.
 

Eeyore

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2007
Messages
551
Location
the meanest city in the stupidest state
imported post

donny wrote:
As an currently employed ATP I'll make a few more comments:

1) As stated the odds of a bullet bringing down a transport category aircraft are astronomical due to the way they're designed and built. Other than the round causing an explosion (extremely unlikely) it's not going to happen. Add to that FFDOs and FAMs are permitted to carry only frangible ammo designed not to penetrate the aircraft's skin or seat backs.

2) Generally speaking LEOs that are not FAMS or FFDOs can't carry on board without following a specific vetting process which requires obtaining documentation prior to the flight. They must present this documentation prior to boarding and the flight crew must be informed of their presence and seating position.

3) FFDOs (whom when acting in their capacity are federal LEOs) are generally prohibited from revealing their status or discussing the program. You can certainly ask if a pilot is in the program but don't expect much in the way of answers.


What he said.
 

Eeyore

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2007
Messages
551
Location
the meanest city in the stupidest state
imported post

Mike wrote:
From what I have heard about the FFDO program, the requirement to encase the gun to/from the aircraft is partly to balme for the one negligent discharge - seems to me the policy should be to MINIMIZE gun handling - FFDOs should be allowed to carry concealed in their holster to from all flight assignments and official airline business and be federally exempt from all state carry laws while on duty like this.

I think this may take Congressional action as bureaucrats just have to have their complicated and often silly/dangerous rules.
But it is a great way to get a H&K USP40 at a great price! :celebrate
 
Top