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Thread: concealed mags

  1. #1
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    If im in a school zone can i still carry my mags openly or even concealed if my firearm is locked up in my car.

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    Regular Member ryanburbridge's Avatar
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    First why would you need your mag if the gun is locked. Second why conceale a mag by it's self? Lock it all together and you will be ok. Case law has showed us not to conceal the mag as it is part of the gun. I don't have the case law handy but it will show up.
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    I'm pretty sure that seeing as how a magazine doesn't meet the deffinition of a firearm, you should be ok.

    I know I've read somewhere that the magazine is an intrigal part of the weapon, and shouldn't be concealed. I don't know what this means as far as carrying a mag alone. I don't even really see what it means when carrying a firearm. If you are carrying concealed just the slide of a pistol is that a concealed firearm?
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    It would be easy to just leave the mags where they are when i pick up the kids.

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    Ca Patriot wrote:
    In southern california, where I live, I am certain that if you were on school grounds or near it with a loaded magazine that people would call the cops on you.

    If you have no gun then I would say there is no reason to carry mags and no reason to risk the hassle of possibly being arrested or detained.
    +1

    This is a legal gray area; that is, I don't believe it is settled law. IMO it is a bad idea to test these waters. You could end up with a felony pretty easy.

    Just to clarify: magazines can't be "loaded." I feel an empty mag would draw equal attention.
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    ryanburbridge wrote:
    First why would you need your mag if the gun is locked. Second why conceale a mag by it's self? Lock it all together and you will be ok. Case law has showed us not to conceal the mag as it is part of the gun. I don't have the case law handy but it will show up.
    The case you're referring to is People v Hale (I've attached it for everyone's convenience).

    I won't try to explain the decision here. I advise each of you to read it. You probably won't understand it the first time around, so use the search function. (I'd use the term "Hale" to start.)

    We've discussed it a couple dozen times; so nearly any question you can think of has almost certainly already been addressed.

    ETA: forgot to attach file. Done.
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    Regular Member ryanburbridge's Avatar
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    CA_Libertarian wrote:


    Just to clarify: magazines can't be "loaded." I feel an empty mag would draw equal attention.


    What are you saying about loaded magazines? Are you saying you can't have a loaded mag on you? Please clarify. Thanks.
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    ryanburbridge wrote:
    CA_Libertarian wrote:


    Just to clarify: magazines can't be "loaded." I feel an empty mag would draw equal attention.


    What are you saying about loaded magazines? Are you saying you can't have a loaded mag on you? Please clarify. Thanks.
    I believe he means loaded into the firearm (ammunition CANNOT be in a position to be fired).

    There is no problem carrying magazines filled with ammo, on your belt. As stated above, pocket carry is not recommended.

  9. #9
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    ryanburbridge wrote:
    CA_Libertarian wrote:


    Just to clarify: magazines can't be "loaded." I feel an empty mag would draw equal attention.


    What are you saying about loaded magazines? Are you saying you can't have a loaded mag on you? Please clarify. Thanks.
    Sorry, wasn't clear at all.

    What I meant to say is that magazines cannot be considered "loaded" by the statutory definition. I prefer to refer to mags as either empty or full, never "loaded" or "unloaded."
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    Regular Member ryanburbridge's Avatar
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    Makes sense thanks for clearing that up. I will use empty or full from now on. Good on ya.
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    I carry a 10-round rifle mag in my pocket, smaller, and flatter than any pistol. I forget it is there. Drop it in my pocket each morning when I scoop-up my wallet, and cell phone from the dresser. This magazine fits any of six identical semi-auto hunting rifles left in the car, at home, at the office. A rifle is always neaby 99% of the time, as opposed to the 5% of the time most OCers are cautiously demonstrating the right.I do not transport on my person or move the weapons from their stations. They are always "there". Plus, I know all my rifles are resonably safe if the one sole magazine (all others locked up, and on station)is in my pocket.All the time while I am carrying the one key component necessary to unlock all H$%^, I don't even have a firearm on my person. So I believe I am OK in the PO, and in a school zone. Maybe I'm wrong but no one will ever have reason to ask me what is in my pocket. OC is fine for bringing attention to 2A, CCW issuance, etc, but I'm talking here about a valid reason to ask...Can I pocket a loaded magazine? I say it is a valid question" Can you carry a clip in your pocket in the absence of the host firearm." Part of a gun? What gun?I wish only to do what CA has left me, and be agood compliant CA Joe, but a Joe indeed.I am confident I can take out any HG carrying assailant within 5 seconds it takes me to get to station, and still give the assailant an extra count of 30 before I ensure I'll never be sued, as is the case of a 9 that might put him in a wheelchair. Any self respecting solder is never far froman AR or AK. As far as CCWs go, any non-felon American should not have to ask permission or pay a fee to carry a loaded weapon, until that day comes,I say such quirky questions arevalid questions. I'm still looking for an absolute answer in the code about the Magazine. Any help is much appreciated.

  12. #12
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    People v Hale found it to be a violation of CA PC 12025 (carrying a concealed handgun) when the magazine was concealed, but the rest of the pistol was nearby and exposed.

    In your scenario, Hale doesn't apply for two reasons:

    1) it's a rifle magazine, and CA law doesn't prohibit concealing rifles (assuming they are not "short barrel" or otherwise an "assualt weapon").

    2) even if it was a firearm prohibited from being concealed, as long as the firearm and concealed mag aren't both in your immediate possession, you can conceal the mag all day long.

    Attached is a copy of the ruling for your perusal.
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    Thank you! Rifle mags are black and white. Wonderfull.

    Do you think Hale would have been OK if the pistol were complete,meaning an empty clip in the pistol? The judgement seems to imply that with or without the clip, thelone .380 round "concealed" under the ashtray is all that remained essential tocomplete the gun.Therefore the gun as a whole wasjudged concealed. If a lone bullet (can be argued to) completes a gun, then same for a OC Carrier of a revolver with a speed clip in her pocket? The speed clip may not be essential but the ammo may be. All remaining gray area, correct? Forgive me for asking as you have probably commented on this many times before.

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    renocasino wrote:
    Thank you! Rifle mags are black and white. Wonderfull.

    Do you think Hale would have been OK if the pistol were complete,meaning an empty clip in the pistol? The judgement seems to imply that with or without the clip, thelone .380 round "concealed" under the ashtray is all that remained essential tocomplete the gun.Therefore the gun as a whole wasjudged concealed. If a lone bullet (can be argued to) completes a gun, then same for a OC Carrier of a revolver with a speed clip in her pocket? The speed clip may not be essential but the ammo may be. All remaining gray area, correct? Forgive me for asking as you have probably commented on this many times before.
    I don't think so. The issue is the ability to quickly make the firearm a fully functional firearm "ready to use". An empty magazine in the gun does not make the gun incapable of quickly being "loaded" with a concealed full magazine that an officer was unaware of. You just drop the empty mag and insert the fullmag and chamber a round.

    If the concealed magazine was an empty magazine, it would not be an issue, since it could be put into the gun and the gun still would not be "ready to use".

    The ammunition itself is not "an integral part" of the firearm, so concealing just the ammunition is not an issue either.



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    Okay, so the search in Hale was warranted due to the weapons and firearm.

    HOWEVER: There is no mention of the clip being found. Since many semi-autos have a "magazine disconnect" mechanism, if this pistol had one and yet the clip was not available then wouldn't the weapon be NON FUNCTIONAL and therefore the single round of ammo would be irrelevant (to the firearms part of the case)?
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    Decoligny wrote:
    I don't think so. The issue is the ability to quickly make the firearm a fully functional firearm "ready to use".
    It should be ready to use all the time. Holstered and loaded enables a free people.

  17. #17
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    F R E E S O U L .CA wrote:
    Decoligny wrote:
    I don't think so. The issue is the ability to quickly make the firearm a fully functional firearm "ready to use".
    It should be ready to use all the time. Holstered and loaded enables a free people.
    True, but totally off topic, and unfortunately not a legal option for most people in CA.

    The discussion was on the legality of concealing a full magazine per PC and case law, not on the best way to be ready to defend yourself.

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