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Thread: Locked, Cocked, but Not ready to Rock

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    Regular Member USMC1911's Avatar
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    I have a question for one and all.

    In your opinion, what is the best / safest / most prudent way toOC a 1911.

    1. Round in chamber, hammer down.

    2. Round in chamber hammer at 1/2 cocked.

    3. Round in chamber, hammer cocked and on safe.

    Please state why you thinkyour way of carry is better then the rest.

    Thanks


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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    USMC1911 wrote:
    I have a question for one and all.

    In your opinion, what is the best / safest / most prudent way toOC a 1911.

    1. Round in chamber, hammer down.

    2. Round in chamber hammer at 1/2 cocked.

    3. Round in chamber, hammer cocked and on safe.

    Please state why you thinkyour way of carry is better then the rest.

    Thanks

    Huh I don't understand. Oh yea I carry a glock. LOL.

    Although I do like those new 1911 styled guns chambered in a nine, ohhh beauties.
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  3. #3
    Regular Member SpyderTattoo's Avatar
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    Round chambered, cocked and locked. That's the way the 1911 was designed to be carried.
    Certified Glock Armorer

    "A government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any particular individual citizen..." -- Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. App.181)

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    Regular Member Son_of_Perdition's Avatar
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    I Israeli carry with safety off, my Kimber. That is the best for me.

    Why? I don't have a permit and when I use my Forbus holster I can eject the mag without pulling the gun to clear the pipe. Sure there are plenty of arguments on how fast a person can ready the weapon, but I assure you. I'm crazzy fast. As if OCing doesn't telegraph ones intentions already.

  5. #5
    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
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    Carrying in condition 1 (round in chamber, full cock) is perfectly safe and is the most preferred method of carry for 1911 owners. It helps to have a retention holster that goes below the hammer for added safety, but without it is perfectly fine, just keep the finger off the trigger. Since I carry an XD, this doesn't apply to me, but I know a couple of people with 1911's. Personally I carry my XD with just a mag in the well. (Some call that condition 2). This way it helps when getting back in the car since I dont have a WA CPL at the moment and racking the slide, though it does take that split second longer, attracting attention to the fact that my life would be in danger isn't a bad idea in my opinion. (up for debate)

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    Condition 1 if you have a CPL, Condition 3 otherwise. Condition 2 should not be used for 1911s.
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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    I have a Sig 238 (Colt Mustang design/1911 design)

    I carry Condition 1
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    Round chambered, hammer cocked, safety engaged. If you plan on using it that is. Also, get some training and practice drawing, removing safety, engaging target, etc.

    That is just my opinion though.

    EDIT: Guys, he may not know which "condition" is which regarding his numbering system above (heck I don't remember them either). You may want to clarify. Also, I know what Israeli carry is, many people do not though.

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    Regular Member Machoduck's Avatar
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    To expand on what Spyder said, which is quite right, the first thing is that the hammer needs to be cocked in order for the thumb safety to be applied. There are several ways to bring the pistol to a point where it's ready to fire, which you touched on in the OP, but making it safe after the threat is gone is a consideration too. Positive movement of the thumb safety is much safer than manipulation of the hammer with a live round under the hammer in the chamber. The initial cocking of the hammer can be done in a safe environment then left alone with thumb safety applied at that time. No further manipulation of the hammer is necessary, either to fire or to return the pistol to safe status.

    MD



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    yes you can carry at half cock but it dose damage the half cock and hammer face (not all 1911's)and you'll have to replace it after about 3 months. when I got my first used 1911 the guy carred it at half cock and it cost $162to fix.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Son_of_Perdition's Avatar
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    "Israeli Carry".....i.e., carrying without a round chambered.

    Thumb safety, no thumb safety, cocked, half cocked. Do not matter when you do not have a chambered cartridge. With one fluid pull of the slide as the weapon comes up on target is pure poetry. Or so I've been told.This is not best for some, but perfect for me. I only use the thumb safety after a discharge. Round in the pipe you know.

  12. #12
    Regular Member USMC1911's Avatar
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    Norman wrote:
    Round chambered, hammer cocked, safety engaged. If you plan on using it that is. Also, get some training and practice drawing, removing safety, engaging target, etc.

    That is just my opinion though.

    EDIT: Guys, he may not know which "condition" is which regarding his numbering system above (heck I don't remember them either). You may want to clarify. Also, I know what Israeli carry is, many people do not though.
    You are correct Sir. What is "Israeli Carry" ? I carried a 1911 in the MC in the 70's and 80's and always had a round in the chamber,a fully loaded mag insertedand at1/2 cocked.
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    Norman wrote:
    Round chambered, hammer cocked, safety engaged. If you plan on using it that is. Also, get some training and practice drawing, removing safety, engaging target, etc.

    That is just my opinion though.

    EDIT: Guys, he may not know which "condition" is which regarding his numbering system above (heck I don't remember them either). You may want to clarify. Also, I know what Israeli carry is, many people do not though.
    Condition 1: round in chamber, cocked & locked
    Condition 2: round in chamber, hammer lowered, no lock
    Condition 3: magazine in well, no round in chamber
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    SpyderTattoo wrote:
    Round chambered, cocked and locked. That's the way the 1911 was designed to be carried.
    This.

    It's the way it was meant to be carried. If you aren't comfortable with carrying it this way, train until you are or switch to something else.

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    911Boss wrote:
    SpyderTattoo wrote:
    Round chambered, cocked and locked. That's the way the 1911 was designed to be carried.
    This.

    It's the way it was meant to be carried. If you aren't comfortable with carrying it this way, train until you are or switch to something else.
    +1

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Son_of_Perdition wrote:
    "Israeli Carry".....i.e., carrying without a round chambered.

    Thumb safety, no thumb safety, cocked, half cocked. Do not matter when you do not have a chambered cartridge. With one fluid pull of the slide as the weapon comes up on target is pure poetry. Or so I've been told.This is not best for some, but perfect for me. I only use the thumb safety after a discharge. Round in the pipe you know.
    And what if your left hand is disabled or otherwise unusable? :shock:

    I went back & forth on this myself till I read the story in a gun mag about a guy who was getting in or out of his car, thug came up & put a knife to his neck & said "I'm going to kill you & steal your car," guy pushed the knife away with his left hand, drew & fired with his right. If he'd had to rack the slide, he'd be dead. That convinced me.

    Myself, I carry my HiPoint condition 1 always, the Tanfoglio I'm still debating whether to install a double-action trigger & carry with one in the pipe & hammer down ala Beretta 92.
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    Regular Member USMC1911's Avatar
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    So, I take it "1/2 Cocked" is a bad thing ? :shock:

    Thank you all for the responses, very informative.
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    Regular Member Son_of_Perdition's Avatar
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    911Boss wrote:
    SpyderTattoo wrote:
    Round chambered, cocked and locked. That's the way the 1911 was designed to be carried.
    This.

    It's the way it was meant to be carried. If you aren't comfortable with carrying it this way, train until you are or switch to something else.
    Clarification needed: It's the way it was meant to be carried when a round is chambered.

    I have found no potential catastrophic damage or adverse wear and tearoccurring when using Condition 3 :P

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    Sorry but you said you used to carry a 1911?

    And you are asking what mode is the best to carry?



    Just odd - it's whole purpose in design is to be carried in condition 1 - loaded, cocked and safety engaged.

    Half cocked? I carried a military issue 1911A1 and there is no half cock on a 1911 - I'm sure there there are many variants now. I'm just asking - I don't know everything out there but it just doesn't seem to make sense.

    Certainly, on the flip side you can carry in whichever manner you feel safe and comfortable but it's designed to be carried in this manner. Doing otherwise does have it's risk - putting a hammer down is not atotally safe practice.
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    Regular Member Son_of_Perdition's Avatar
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    USMC1911 wrote:
    So, I take it "1/2 Cocked" is a bad thing ? :shock:

    Thank you all for the responses, very informative.
    Don't you remember your Grandfather saying " Don't be going off all half Cocked boy!"

    The wisdom of age :quirky

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    oldkim wrote:
    Sorry but you said you used to carry a 1911?

    And you are asking what mode is the best to carry?



    Just odd - it's whole purpose in design is to be carried in condition 1 - loaded, cocked and safety engaged.

    Half cocked? I carried a military issue 1911A1 and there is no half cock on a 1911 - I'm sure there there are many variants now. I'm just asking - I don't know everything out there but it just doesn't seem to make sense.

    Certainly, on the flip side you can carry in whichever manner you feel safe and comfortable but it's designed to be carried in this manner. Doing otherwise does have it's risk - putting a hammer down is not atotally safe practice.
    Heres a Tony Santiago type question : Are wheel guns supposed to be carried hammer down or cocked?
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    Condition 2 is perhaps the most unsafe mode since you have no safety when cocking or de-cocking the hammer. It can also lead to mode confusion and ND's when handling the weapon for cleaning, etc.

    Half cock should not be used. It was supposedly designed as a last ditch in case the hammer fell but in some cases it won't always stop the hammer from striking the firing pin.

    Condition 3...might as well carry a club.

    As another poster said, if you don't feel comfortable with Condition 1, then don't carry a single action auto.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Son_of_Perdition's Avatar
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    oldkim wrote:
    Sorry but you said you used to carry a 1911?

    And you are asking what mode is the best to carry?



    Just odd - it's whole purpose in design is to be carried in condition 1 - loaded, cocked and safety engaged.

    Half cocked? I carried a military issue 1911A1 and there is no half cock on a 1911 - I'm sure there there are many variants now. I'm just asking - I don't know everything out there but it just doesn't seem to make sense.

    Certainly, on the flip side you can carry in whichever manner you feel safe and comfortable but it's designed to be carried in this manner. Doing otherwise does have it's risk - putting a hammer down is not atotally safe practice.
    My Kimber 1911 has a half cock. Keeps the hammer and pin off the primer for safety. Pulling the trigger will not fire the gun until you full cock. I don't use 1/2 cock though.

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    The OP stated back in the 70's and 80's - not current production 1911.

    Heck, now you can get a 1911 chambered in 9mm or whatever and in pink. Let's not confuse the issue here.

    There is no half cocked for a military 1911A1. It's a single action. Not anything new or with in the last decade or two.



    History lesson: half cocked orginates or refers to flint locks not 1911's.
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    Ok guys, slow down here.

    One of the more famous Texas Rangers carried a 1911 with a round chambered, and on the half-cock notch, with the grip safeties tied-down with a piece of rawhide. I am not sure why a 1911 would NOW have a half-cock notch, but NOT have one when it lacked a firing pin safety. I would give you a name, but I don't recall it, and it was in the back of a guns and ammo mag. Article was written by skeeter skelton though, if I remember right.

    Also, when my Grandpa was in the military, they were not allowed to carry cocked and locked, under any circumstances. Their 1911 was carried on an empty chamber.

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