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Thread: Who needs a gun in a Wendy's?

  1. #1
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Crazy condiment lover in Florida chases Wendy's employees around, zapping them with a Taser.

    and how does someone using a "less than lethal" weapon get charged with using a deadly weapon? Inquiring minds want to know!

    http://www.aolnews.com/weird-news/ar...taser/19484066


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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    ProShooter wrote:
    Crazy condiment lover in Florida chases Wendy's employees around, zapping them with a Taser.

    and how does someone using a "less than lethal" weapon get charged with using a deadly weapon? Inquiring minds want to know!

    http://www.aolnews.com/weird-news/ar...taser/19484066
    "Reid was charged with aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, while Bryant was hit with charges of principal to aggravated assault with a deadly weapon."

    Very interestink. Any possibility that a Taser is so classified in Florida or is this perhaps just a case of media-madness again?

    Yata hey
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    There was a recent case in Utah where an officer tased an individual WHO DIED!

    LawSuits have been filed.
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    It occurs to me that there are two possibilites:

    1. A taser is (potentially) deadly, in which case the charge is appropriate, and this is a good example of why a gun is useful in Wendy's.

    2. A taser is not potentially deadly, in which case the charge is inappropriate, and this case really has nothing to do with self-defense using a firearm, and thus isn't on-topic.

    Are you trying to have your cake and eat it, too? :P

    Personally, I go with number 1.

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    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    Crazy condiment lover in Florida chases Wendy's employees around, zapping them with a Taser.

    and how does someone using a "less than lethal" weapon get charged with using a deadly weapon? Inquiring minds want to know!

    http://www.aolnews.com/weird-news/ar...taser/19484066
    "Reid was charged with aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, while Bryant was hit with charges of principal to aggravated assault with a deadly weapon."

    Very interestink. Any possibility that a Taser is so classified in Florida or is this perhaps just a case of media-madness again?

    Yata hey
    This might be hard to read, but my secretary is not here to type it.

    These pages are from Florida Firearms, Law, Use & Ownership by Jon Gutmacher.


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    ProShooter wrote:
    SNIP and how does someone using a "less than lethal" weapon get charged with using a deadly weapon? Inquiring minds want to know!
    I haven'theard of a taser being call a less than lethal weapon lately.

    I vaguely recall an article oriented toward cops in a gun magazine yearsago clarifying that a taser was not properly called a less than lethal weapon, but should be classified as a less-lethal weapon. The point being that tasers can be lethal and people should not fall into the mindset of believing them non-lethal.

    Even Taser's own website makes several references to lethal results in a variety of circumstances. Click on the citizen warning .pdf: http://www.taser.com/legal/Pages/Default.aspx

    I did not skim the police warning .pdf.

    Also, one of the google-returns I skimmed used the term "less lethal", omitting the word "than."
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    Citizen wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    SNIP and how does someone using a "less than lethal" weapon get charged with using a deadly weapon? Inquiring minds want to know!
    I haven'theard of a taser being call a less than lethal weapon lately.

    I vaguely recall an article oriented toward cops in a gun magazine yearsago clarifying that a taser was not properly called a less than lethal weapon, but should be classified as a less-lethal weapon. The point being that tasers can be lethal and people should not fall into the mindset of believing them non-lethal.

    Even Taser's own website makes several references to lethal results in a variety of circumstances. Click on the citizen warning .pdf: http://www.taser.com/legal/Pages/Default.aspx

    I did not skim the police warning .pdf.

    Also, one of the google-returns I skimmed used the term "less lethal", omitting the word "than."
    Less-lethal or less than lethal are just a matter of semantics in my book. You can't be any more or any less dead. Dead is dead.

    Tasers, stun guns and pepper spray, while they can cause death, are not intended or designedto cause death.
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    There was an incident here in NC just this week where a State trooper lost his taser in an altercation with some thug, and the thug zapped the trooper, whacked the trooper on the head with the taser, and then fled.

    The perp is being charged with "assault with a deadly weapon".

    Oh, and BTW, they caught the perp within about 24 hours. He's a real charmer too. Flipped off the local TV crew while in handcuffs for the evening news...

    http://www.witn.com/crime/headlines/93943679.html
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    http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/news...cc4c03286.html

    Story in the local paper about a Montana sheriff's deputy who broke both arms due to being tased. Interesting to note that this was a training exercise - another officer was tased immediately after the injured deputy as it took a few minutes for him to realize his arms were broke.

    A taser is a weapon. I'm not sure if such a thing as a less-(than)-lethal weapon exists. It's all about application. I could shoot you in the arm with a .45 acp and not kill you, or I could beat you to death with a pillow (if I could get you to stand still long enough).

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    In my opinion "where there is a will there is a way" applies to this. while tasers, shoes, hammers, and pillows etc. aren't made to kill, if used in the wrong way, they can. So when it comes down to it, I think if you were to use a taser in self defense you wouldn't be charged with "assault with a deadly weapon. However if your chasing employees of a fast food establishment with a taser your intent is not so clear, and thus earn the "assault with a deadly weapon"

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Wanshig wrote:
    In my opinion "where there is a will there is a way" applies to this. while tasers, shoes, hammers, and pillows etc. aren't made to kill, if used in the wrong way, they can. So when it comes down to it, I think if you were to use a taser in self defense you wouldn't be charged with "assault with a deadly weapon. However if your chasing employees of a fast food establishment with a taser your intent is not so clear, and thus earn the "assault with a deadly weapon"
    State laws do vary considerably - here we are devoted to Florida law and I do not see "intent" as a criteria. This would seem to leave such to the opinion of the prosecuting attorney - if you are perceived as the bg, expect charges.

    Yata hey
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    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    so if I understand what you are saying correctly, if I were to see someone taking a bat to another person's head and shot them to prevent "facial disfigurement", and the bg ended up dying from said wounds. I would be arrested and charged with manslaughter, and have to possibly sit in jail 'til my trial?

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    Wanshig wrote:
    so if I understand what you are saying correctly, if I were to see someone taking a bat to another person's head and shot them to prevent "facial disfigurement", and the bg ended up dying from said wounds. I would be arrested and charged with manslaughter, and have to possibly sit in jail 'til my trial?
    Personally, if I were to witness someone taking a baseball bat to anothers head and I only reported it as apotential "facial disfigurement" then I would NOT BE A GOOD WITNESS.

    A baseball bat to anyones head is a felonious assault with an intent to do bodily harm and or death, or rather ATTEMPTED HOMICIDE!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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    Wanshig wrote:
    so if I understand what you are saying correctly, if I were to see someone taking a bat to another person's head and shot them to prevent "facial disfigurement", and the bg ended up dying from said wounds. I would be arrested and charged with manslaughter, and have to possibly sit in jail 'til my trial?
    If you are asking GS, I don't want to answer for him, but he said "if you are perceived as the bg, expect charges." IMHO, in allcases where one has to use a weapon in their own or someone else's defense, it is prudent to be the victim, not the bg.

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    perhaps baseball bat was a little bit of a extreme example, a better example of facial disfigurement is someone who has clearly won a fight but is still going at them knocking out teeth and busting their nose sideways...perhaps a forcible felony would have been a better example to begin with :? ...sometimes I has the dumb

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    buster81 wrote:
    Wanshig wrote:
    so if I understand what you are saying correctly, if I were to see someone taking a bat to another person's head and shot them to prevent "facial disfigurement", and the bg ended up dying from said wounds. I would be arrested and charged with manslaughter, and have to possibly sit in jail 'til my trial?
    If you are asking GS, I don't want to answer for him, but he said "if you are perceived as the bg, expect charges." IMHO, in allcases where one has to use a weapon in their own or someone else's defense, it is prudent to be the victim, not the bg.
    Some states have castle doctrine or stand your ground laws, some do not.

    The are numerous things that can go wrong, including that the prosecuting attorney did not think that deadly force was necessary - this can the put you on the wrong end of the stick.

    Always best to be perceived as the good guy who had no choice but to act accordingly.

    Yata hey


    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    true. While we are innocent until proven guilty, we are also judged by a juror of our peers who seem to believe you are guilty until proven innocent. :?

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    Wanshig wrote:
    In my opinion "where there is a will there is a way" applies to this. while tasers, shoes, hammers, and pillows etc. aren't made to kill, if used in the wrong way, they can. So when it comes down to it, I think if you were to use a taser in self defense you wouldn't be charged with "assault with a deadly weapon. However if your chasing employees of a fast food establishment with a taser your intent is not so clear, and thus earn the "assault with a deadly weapon"
    In the Use of Force Continuim, chemical sprays, bean bag roounds, tasers, etc are all considered less lethal options. Any one of them can cause great bodily harm or death, but if used properly are less likely to do so than lethal options.

    Florida does not have an ADW charge, the charges are assault and aggravated assault. Agg Assault is used when the offender utilized a weapon which was likely to cuase great bodily harm or death. Assault is a threat by word or action with the ability to carry out said threat. "I'm gonna beat your ass" with my firsts balled up and having the ability/opportunity to carry out that threatis an assault, "I'm gonna beat your ass" with a baseball bat, tire iron, knife, gun, or any other object that would be likely to cause great bodily injury or death is agg assault.

    Now....I hit you with my fist, is battery. I hit you with that bat, tire iron, etc. or I beat you with my first to the point of causing great bodily injury,disfigurement and so onis agg battery.





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