Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 107

Thread: PPD (Pontiac) says open carry is a direct violation of the cpl

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Pontiac, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    285

    Post imported post

    Ive had contact with the PPD and LEO saying im illegally carrying a firearm and ill be arrested. Tried to handle it the right way they didnt want to hear it. Chief says he wants city attorney to check the legality of it even with the paperwork he was given. MSP i called and then they notified PPD i was not in violation of my cpl and they still say i am. So im going to the pontiac city council meeting on Thursday 5/20/2010 at 7pm. The address is 47450 woodward ave 48342. Any support would greatly be appreciated ive gotten response of people who may be coming but any others will be great. TY ev1 you guys have great info

  2. #2
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    MOC Charter Member Westland, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,445

    Post imported post

    I may be able to make it.

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Pontiac, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    285

    Post imported post

    ty



  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Southwest Detroit, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    151

    Post imported post

    Army74 drove out from Pontiac to Taylor Tuesday night to support OCers at the Taylor council meeting. If you are able please support him as well in his fight. The more the merrier! I'll be there for sure.

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Taylor, Wayne County, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,047

    Post imported post

    I'll do my best....It'll be difficult for me to make it. Can we try to get a OC help needed thread going ASAP.

    If you get crap from them we should try to to put together a LARGE turn out in the future with Scott or another speaker like Jan.

    Pontiac City Hall
    47450 Woodward Avenue
    Pontiac, MI 48342-5009
    (248) 758-3000 LINK TO MAP
    http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...16379071993704

    Savage.Detroit wrote:
    Army74 drove out from Pontiac to Taylor Tuesday night to support OCers at the Taylor council meeting. If you are able please support him as well in his fight. The more the merrier! I'll be there for sure.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

  6. #6
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Battle Creek, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,157

    Post imported post

    Wish I could be there but I can't make it. Go get 'em and good luck.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

  7. #7
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    West Bloomfield, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,937

    Post imported post

    I'll be there.

    Edit to add:

    I propose the following approach. Yourelate to the council a brief summary of your incident, what was said to you, and your communications with other city officials. I will follow you and give council a summary of the legality of OC, how themisinformation from the city's agents, if the allegations are true, are wrong and need to be corrected, and MOC's willingness to be available to the city for further information, training, yada, yada.

    What do you think?

    Note: I'm a member of MOC, but if there is an issue with me committing MOC in such a way above, change "MOC's willingness" to "our willingness".

    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

  8. #8
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    West Bloomfield, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,937

    Post imported post

    Army74,

    Are you going to be able to be there before 6pm to submit a public comment card, so that you can speak later?

    I don't know about the legality of the following, but these apparently are the rules with regard to public comments from the last available agenda:

    "The public may address the council during the public discussion portion of the agenda. You must complete a public discussion card located in the City Council Office. Please indicate on the card your name, address, and topic(s) for discussion, and leave your card with the City Council Office staff prior to the start of the meeting at 6:00 p.m. Citizens will be allowed five (5) minutes to discuss city business during a council meeting; and provided further, the Council President shall determine the order in which each person may speak. City Council Rule VI-D (Adopted 2/27/03)"
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

  9. #9
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,446

    Post imported post

    army74 wrote:
    Ive had contact with the PPD and LEO saying im illegally carrying a firearm and ill be arrested. Tried to handle it the right way they didnt want to hear it. Chief says he wants city attorney to check the legality of it even with the paperwork he was given. MSP i called and then they notified PPD i was not in violation of my cpl and they still say i am. So im going to the pontiac city council meeting on Thursday 5/20/2010 at 7pm. The address is 47450 woodward ave 48342. Any support would greatly be appreciated ive gotten response of people who may be coming but any others will be great. TY ev1 you guys have great info
    I will be sending an email as a MOC representative. PM me with details so I can include same in my investigation.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Pontiac, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    285

    Post imported post

    Yes ill be there by 6pm maybe 5:30 and thank you to ev1

  11. #11
    Regular Member fozzy71's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Roseville, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    932

    Post imported post

    I could understand this level of ineptitude a year ago, but how can an entire cities police force be so clueless, with all the recent publicity on OC? :?
    "I like users who quote smellslikemichigan in their signature lines." - fozzy71

  12. #12
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,446

    Post imported post

    Comments? Haven't sent it yet, but will by noon today.

    chief@pontiac.mi.us

    Dear Chief Gross:

    A citizen of Pontiac requested Michigan Open Carry, Inc. (MOC, Inc.) to investigate his claim that one of your officers informed him that it is against the law for a person with a CPL to open carry thier handgun. The officer stated that once you have a CPL you give up your right to open carry. There is no such law that states you give up your right to open carry once you have a license to conceal. The license allows the person the option to conceal if he so desires. It would be like stating, that since you have a drivers license you can no longer walk.

    He also stated that he brought this issue to your department’s attention and was still told it was illegal, even after the Michigan State Police stated it was not. I understand you are having legal look into this issue. Once they inform you that it is indeed lawful to open carry with a CPL it is MOC, Inc. hope that you train your officers in regards to the open carry of a handgun.

    I have attached a memo created by the Lansing Police Department on open carry and suggest you review it along with the attached newsletter prepared by the Michigan Municipal League’s LEAF staff on open carry.

    If you have any questions please contact me. Our organization is also available to present training to departments on the various aspects of open carry.

    Thank you for your time and service to the community of Pontiac.

    Sincerely,
    Brian G. Jeffs, MS, CPG
    Director of Research, MOC, Inc.




    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,544

    Post imported post

    Typo in the first sentence.

    Their. Not thier.

    The last sentence of the first paragraph has no need for that comma.

  14. #14
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    MOC Charter Member Westland, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,445

    Post imported post

    Venator wrote:
    Comments? Haven't sent it yet, but will by noon today.

    chief@pontiac.mi.us

    Dear Chief Gross:

    A citizen of Pontiac requested Michigan Open Carry, Inc. (MOC, Inc.) to investigate his claim that one of your officers informed him that it is against the law for a person with a CPL to open carry their handgun. The officer stated that once you have a CPL you give up your right to open carry. There is no such law that states you give up your right to open carry once you have a license to conceal. The license allows the person the option to conceal if he/she so desires. It would be like stating that since you have a drivers license you can no longer walk.

    He also stated that he brought this issue to your department’s attention and was still told it was illegal, even after the Michigan State Police stated it was not. I understand you are having legal look into this issue. Once they inform you that it is indeed lawful to open carry with a CPL it is MOC, Inc. hope and in fact your duty to train your officers in regards to the open carry of a handgun.

    I have attached a memo created by the Lansing Police Department on open carry and suggest you review it along with the attached newsletter prepared by the Michigan Municipal League’s LEAF staff on open carry.

    If you have any questions please contact me. Our organization is also available to present training to departments on the various aspects of open carry.

    Thank you for your time and service to the community of Pontiac.

    Sincerely,
    Brian G. Jeffs, MS, CPG
    Director of Research, MOC, Inc.



    all fixed as far as I know

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    MOC IT / Midland, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    416

    Post imported post

    sweet :-) looks great to me :-)

  16. #16
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Lawrence, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    3,845

    Post imported post

    Very nice Brian!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Taylor, Wayne County, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,047

    Post imported post

    I'll be there Army74 by 7pm!

    :celebrate
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

  18. #18
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Lawrence, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    3,845

    Post imported post

    Very nice Brian!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Taylor, Wayne County, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,047

    Post imported post

    dougwg wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    Comments? Haven't sent it yet, but will by noon today.

    chief@pontiac.mi.us

    Dear Chief Gross:

    A citizen of Pontiac requested Michigan Open Carry, Inc. (MOC, Inc.) to investigate his claim that one of your officers informed him that it is against the law for a person with a CPL to open carry their handgun. The officer stated that once you have a CPL you give up your right to open carry. There is no such law that states you give up your right to open carry once you have a license to conceal. The license allows the person the option to conceal if he/she so desires. It would be like stating that since you have a drivers license you can no longer walk.

    He also stated that he brought this issue to your department’s attention and was still told it was illegal, even after the Michigan State Police stated it was not. I understand you are having legal look into this issue. Once they inform you that it is indeed lawful to open carry with a CPL it is MOC, Inc. hope and in fact your duty to train your officers in regards to the open carry of a handgun.

    I have attached a memo created by the Lansing Police Department on open carry and suggest you review it along with the attached newsletter prepared by the Michigan Municipal League’s LEAF staff on open carry.

    If you have any questions please contact me. Our organization is also available to present training to departments on the various aspects of open carry.

    Thank you for your time and service to the community of Pontiac.

    Sincerely,
    Brian G. Jeffs, MS, CPG
    Director of Research, MOC, Inc.



    all fixed as far as I know
    Should she be in bold type? It looks great, well written & to the point.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Taylor, Wayne County, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,047

    Post imported post

    This is from Pontiac's ordinances


    Sec. 86-276. Possession of firearms--Restricted. (a)No person shall transport or have in his possession in or upon any vehicle on or about his person a loaded firearm in and upon any street, alley or other place in the city or at any place other than the residence or fixed place of business of such person. (b)No person shall transport or have in his possession in or upon any vehicle, at any place other than the residence or fixed place of business of such person, a firearm unless the firearm shall be unloaded, encased and carried in the luggage compartment of the vehicle. (c)No person shall carry or have on or about his person at any place other than the residence or fixed place of business of such person a firearm unless the firearm is unloaded and encased. (d)No minor shall carry or have on or about his person, or transport or have in possession in or upon any vehicle in and upon any street, alley or other public places in the city a firearm. (Code 1985, § 16-113)

    Link to Ords. Type pistol in search box

    http://library1.municode.com/default...ction=whatsnew
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

  21. #21
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,446

    Post imported post

    Thanks for the replies and suggestion. I will make all of your changes and send out soon.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Clinton Township, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    93

    Post imported post

    I have a written response from Trooper Hawkins who took Sgt. Deasy's place in lansing. He handles all these types of queastions.He writes " Obtaining a CPL in no way proibits you from open carrying.There is no law prohibiting open carry let alone prohibiting it for a CPL holder.He can be contacted at

    hawkinscj@michigan.gov



    If you want a written copy of his response contace me at gekgun@yahoo.com and I can fax it to you.

  23. #23
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SE, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,336

    Post imported post

    Glock9mmOldStyle wrote:
    This is from Pontiac's ordinances


    Sec. 86-276. Possession of firearms--Restricted. (a)No person shall transport or have in his possession in or upon any vehicle on or about his person a loaded firearm in and upon any street, alley or other place in the city or at any place other than the residence or fixed place of business of such person. (b)No person shall transport or have in his possession in or upon any vehicle, at any place other than the residence or fixed place of business of such person, a firearm unless the firearm shall be unloaded, encased and carried in the luggage compartment of the vehicle. (c)No person shall carry or have on or about his person at any place other than the residence or fixed place of business of such person a firearm unless the firearm is unloaded and encased. (d)No minor shall carry or have on or about his person, or transport or have in possession in or upon any vehicle in and upon any street, alley or other public places in the city a firearm. (Code 1985, § 16-113)

    Link to Ords. Type pistol in search box

    http://library1.municode.com/default...ction=whatsnew
    Glock - I highlighted a and b as well as these are not allowed under MI Preemption Law.

    FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION (EXCERPT)
    Act 319 of 1990

    123.1102 Regulation of pistols or other firearms.
    Sec. 2.
    A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.

    History: 1990, Act 319, Eff. Mar. 28, 1991

    © 2009 Legislative Council, State of Michigan



    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Pontiac, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    285

    Post imported post

    so according to the ordinance im supposedly in violation of there city ordinances right

  25. #25
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,446

    Post imported post

    thekunk47 wrote:
    I have a written response from Trooper Hawkins who took Sgt. Deasy's place in lansing. He handles all these types of queastions.He writes " Obtaining a CPL in no way proibits you from open carrying.There is no law prohibiting open carry let alone prohibiting it for a CPL holder.He can be contacted at

    hawkinscj@michigan.gov



    If you want a written copy of his response contace me at gekgun@yahoo.com and I can fax it to you.
    email sent.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •