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Thread: Pulled over while "armed to the teeth" yesterday

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    I was driving west on Sahara coming up on Arville yesterday. There was a ton of traffic on Arville and I was really hungry and there was a KFC right past the light at Arville, so me being the lazy, impatient American I love to be, I pulled into the storage lane, and drove past all those cars sitting there, while laughing to myself.

    My ex, whose car I was driving, said to me "are you SURE you should be doing this?". "Yeah, sure" I said, and laughed again.

    I make a right onto Arville, pull into the Wendys parking lot to cut through to KFC. Bloddy hell, the parking lots are separated. Wonderful. So I make a right back onto Sahara and turn into the KFC parking lot, and go to the drive through.....yeah not so much.


    A voice yells at me to "GET OUT OF THE DRIVE THROUGH", and I look behind me to see the most feared type of officer....an LVMPD MOTORCYCLE OFFICER FFFFFFFFFEEEEEEECCCCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK.



    So I pull into a parking space, pull out my wallet, and take my CCW, and DL out.

    He walks up to the car and I hand him both, and he asks if I know what I did. I told him I didn't. Then he said I drove more than 200ft in a storage lane.


    Then he asked "You don't have any guns on you right now do you?". I started to laugh a little and said, "wwweeeelllllllllll, I have an AK74 and Mossberg 500 in the back, and a Glock 26 on my hip". The cop gave me kind of a strange look and said "well you are armed to the ?".


    That was the end of the discussion about guns.


    The cop then brought me back my ticket, told me to drive safe and have a nice day and that was it.


    So SWAT being called out, no being yanked out of the car by my pubes and being tazed, no being disarmed and cavity searched, nothing!



    On another note, the citation didn't have the fine amount on it. I have to wait 14 days to call, and then I find out. Does anyone know how much these fines usually cost?

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    I can't count how many times I have giggled to myself doing the same stuff. In Cali Lane splitting is legal on a motorcycle so I used to do it all the time. Traveling through San Francisco durring girdlock laughing at everyone is a joyful experience. :P
    "You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence."
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    What's a storage lane?

    What's an "ex, ***** car?"

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    Yard Sale wrote:
    What's a storage lane?

    What's an "ex, ***** car?"
    http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...72.14,,0,14.43

    that lane to the right is the storage lane.

    I think he meant to type "my ex, whose car I was driving", not to imply that his ex (or her car) is a *****.

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    SoLasVegas wrote:
    Yard Sale wrote:
    What's a storage lane?

    What's an "ex, ***** car?"
    http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...72.14,,0,14.43

    that lane to the right is the storage lane.
    Um...do you mean the far right-hand lane or the shoulder? I've never heard of a "storage lane."
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
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    ManInBlack wrote:

    Um...do you mean the far right-hand lane or the shoulder? I've never heard of a "storage lane."
    I've never heard it called a "storage lane," but it's the lane on the right of the solid white line. This is NOT a travel lane.

    The lines on a road are universal, whether driving on the right of the left.

    First, you don't change lanes across a solid line, then keep driving the same direction (passing, for instance, as the OP did).

    Second, a continuous solid yellow line goes on your LEFT, while a continuous solid whit line goes on your RIGHT, except in a "No Lane Changes" zone.

    The cop could have really piled it on for the lane change, improper lane, maybe even unsafe operation (someone could have pulled into the lane while he was driving past).

    Other than the actual infraction, I want to mention that the OP did a big, bad no-no when he pulled out his CCW permit and DL.

    If armed, NEVER NEVER NEVER do ANYTHING in a traffic stop except put your hands on the wheel, and keep them there until after you inform the officer that you are carrying.

    You see one cop on your left. If there is one you don't see on your right, and HE sees your pistol as you reach for your wallet, things may very rapidly become loud and final.

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    DVC wrote:
    ManInBlack wrote:

    Um...do you mean the far right-hand lane or the shoulder? I've never heard of a "storage lane."
    I've never heard it called a "storage lane," but it's the lane on the right of the solid white line. This is NOT a travel lane.

    The lines on a road are universal, whether driving on the right of the left.

    First, you don't change lanes across a solid line, then keep driving the same direction (passing, for instance, as the OP did).

    Second, a continuous solid yellow line goes on your LEFT, while a continuous solid whit line goes on your RIGHT, except in a "No Lane Changes" zone.

    The cop could have really piled it on for the lane change, improper lane, maybe even unsafe operation (someone could have pulled into the lane while he was driving past).

    Other than the actual infraction, I want to mention that the OP did a big, bad no-no when he pulled out his CCW permit and DL.

    If armed, NEVER NEVER NEVER do ANYTHING in a traffic stop except put your hands on the wheel, and keep them there until after you inform the officer that you are carrying.

    You see one cop on your left. If there is one you don't see on your right, and HE sees your pistol as you reach for your wallet, things may very rapidly become loud and final.
    So, the shoulder, then.

    He pulled out his CCW and DL before the officer walked up. I.E.: right as both cars stopped. I think that this is what 99% of people do when getting pulled over. I wouldn't have pulled out the CCW, because it is unnecessary and some LEO's view it as an invitation to ask additional questions, as this one did, but no harm, no foul.
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...and_rebellions
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
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    strange days in nevada, but i'll take it as a win and issue the dancing bananna.:celebrate

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    WHOSE car...thats what happens when you wake up, and post a thread from your cell phone!


    And my ex is not a ***** hahaha.




    But anyway..I did a big no no huh? I don't remember getting shot because of that. I don't even remember getting disarmed. I don't remember the cop being angry at all. Actually, IIRC, he was in pretty good spirits.








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    In a storage lane violation, the fine equates to about one thirty nine dollars per foot!
    How many feet did you say you drove in that lane?








    Alright, just kidding.I hope it all works out for you.

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    DVC wrote:
    Other than the actual infraction, I want to mention that the OP did a big, bad no-no when he pulled out his CCW permit and DL.

    If armed, NEVER NEVER NEVER do ANYTHING in a traffic stop except put your hands on the wheel, and keep them there until after you inform the officer that you are carrying.

    You see one cop on your left. If there is one you don't see on your right, and HE sees your pistol as you reach for your wallet, things may very rapidly become loud and final.


    This comes up every time someone writes up a traffic stop, I have been stopped several times while CC and OC, I had my DL, CPF and insurance card in my hand out the window when the officer approached, once in Nev. the trooper came up to the passenger side and I had my wife hand him the documents, my 1911 was laying on the center consol and I was drinking a cup of coffee. A cop does expect to see some movement in a vehicle during a traffic stop. I have never just sat there withmy hands frozen to the wheel until a LEO tells me it is OK to move. OC or CC with a permit is legal, in my mind to sit there frozen to the wheel implies what we are doing is wrong.

    I have not had any LEO's take exception. They all said "No problem.

    Just don't touch it" after I informed themthat I was carrying and where the pistol was located on my body. I have a philosophy that if you are relaxed and polite to an LEO, you will be treated the same way. To date it has not failed me.



    Steve


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    Facejackets wrote:
    And my ex is not a ***** hahaha.
    Mine is. We're divorced because she failed geography -- she thinks that "fidelity" is that town where they have the Liberty Bell.

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    .45acp wrote:
    OC or CC with a permit is legal, in my mind to sit there frozen to the wheel implies what we are doing is wrong.
    I guess that putting on a seatbelt implies that you are planning to drive into a wall, too . . .

    Now, let's go back to the planet with the BLUE sky.

    Imagine that someone saw you OC yesterday and gave your car description and plate to the cops. Let's say that it was Little Miss Hoplophobe, that college-educated idiot who tried to have another poster here arrested a few days ago. She has learned her lesson -- just having a gun isn't enough -- so she tells them that you were brandishing your pistol, or making suspicious comments.

    Now, today, the cop sees you doing something you're not supposed to do, and as he calls in with you plate, it comes back with an officer safety warning because of the MWAG call from yesterday.

    NOW he sees you digging around for your wallet . . .or is that for your gun?

    Contrast that with him seeing you sitting there, hands on the wheel, and as he gets close you say "Hi, Officer, I wanted you to know that I've got a holstered pistol, and my wallet is in the pocket next to it. How do you want me to handle this?"

    Remember that JOB ONE for a cop is to GO HOME SAFE. When you are stopped, YOU have the power to escalate the situation. The cop has the power to make your day a really unhappy one.

    You BOTH would rather that it stay casual, just another traffic stop. The best way to do that is for you to give full control to the cop from the beginning, before he even knows that you are armed. You may give him such a happy surprise that he decides to go look for the next minor infraction -- or, if you ARE dealing with a leftover MWAG call, he will figure out that the problem was someone's hoplophobia, not your behavior, and again, it remains a happy day for all.

    In this day and age, you MUST always assume that the cop knows that you carry a gun. It only takes one contact (or phone call) for that to go into the computer.



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    ^^ Shes still in High school, lol.

    When i was pulled over a couple of months ago, I kept my hands on the wheel until the officer approached. I did NOT inform him of my gun, which was in the center console, and was not planning to since i had no reason to go in there during the stop. All my paperwork was in a different location. When he asked if there were any guns in the car i told him yes and where it was, and he told me not to move, reached in and grabbed it, and started asking questions as to why i had it and asked for my blue card, then spent 20 minutes running it. Now i dont carry my blue card, and have some nice tape on my grip because i like the feel of it over the plain blued steel, and it helps "protect" my serial from damage, and cops running it when they arent supposed to be.

    Please dont flame me for this post, ive read all the dont show them blue card, dont help them etc. post. This was back when i was just getting into OC, and wasnt sure about that part of it, and it was also 4am, i was practically asleep in the car during the stop.

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    DVC wrote:
    .45acp wrote:
    OC or CC with a permit is legal, in my mind to sit there frozen to the wheel implies what we are doing is wrong.
    I guess that putting on a seatbelt implies that you are planning to drive into a wall, too . . .

    Now, let's go back to the planet with the BLUE sky.

    Imagine that someone saw you OC yesterday and gave your car description and plate to the cops. Let's say that it was Little Miss Hoplophobe, that college-educated idiot who tried to have another poster here arrested a few days ago. She has learned her lesson -- just having a gun isn't enough -- so she tells them that you were brandishing your pistol, or making suspicious comments.

    Now, today, the cop sees you doing something you're not supposed to do, and as he calls in with you plate, it comes back with an officer safety warning because of the MWAG call from yesterday.

    NOW he sees you digging around for your wallet . . .or is that for your gun?

    Contrast that with him seeing you sitting there, hands on the wheel, and as he gets close you say "Hi, Officer, I wanted you to know that I've got a holstered pistol, and my wallet is in the pocket next to it. How do you want me to handle this?"

    Remember that JOB ONE for a cop is to GO HOME SAFE. When you are stopped, YOU have the power to escalate the situation. The cop has the power to make your day a really unhappy one.

    You BOTH would rather that it stay casual, just another traffic stop. The best way to do that is for you to give full control to the cop from the beginning, before he even knows that you are armed. You may give him such a happy surprise that he decides to go look for the next minor infraction -- or, if you ARE dealing with a leftover MWAG call, he will figure out that the problem was someone's hoplophobia, not your behavior, and again, it remains a happy day for all.

    In this day and age, you MUST always assume that the cop knows that you carry a gun. It only takes one contact (or phone call) for that to go into the computer.

    DVC, if you keep running multi faceted scenarios and convoluting the number of incidences long enough I’m sure you’ll make sense of your theory sooner or later. I’m not buying it. If you notice, I did not recommend that people do what I do. Frankly, I don’t care if you agree with me or not.



    Put your seat belt on.



    Steve
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    .45acp wrot

    DVC, if you keep running multi faceted scenarios and convoluting the number of incidences long enough I’m sure you’ll make sense of your theory sooner or later. I’m not buying it. If you notice, I did not recommend that people do what I do. Frankly, I don’t care if you agree with me or not.
    Then we're even.

    My "multifaceted scenarios" come from the real world, where cops shoot people, sometimes when they shouldn't, and when they don't follow proper procedures, even when they should.

    It doesn't matter how rare these cases might be, if you are the one who gets shot by a cop who doesn't understand what you are doing. Unless you have an allergy to Kryptonite, it's a good idea to not make a cop think that shooting you is his best option.

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    DVC wrote:
    My "multifaceted scenarios" come from the real world, where cops shoot people, sometimes when they shouldn't, and when they don't follow proper procedures, even when they should.

    It doesn't matter how rare these cases might be, if you are the one who gets shot by a cop who doesn't understand what you are doing. Unless you have an allergy to Kryptonite, it's a good idea to not make a cop think that shooting you is his best option.





    They are real world cases to you....your opinion only. As a matter of opinion, I don't get overly wrapped around the axel on the web, after all its just electrical buzz.





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    .45acp wrote:
    DVC wrote:
    My "multifaceted scenarios" come from the real world, where cops shoot people, sometimes when they shouldn't, and when they don't follow proper procedures, even when they should.

    It doesn't matter how rare these cases might be, if you are the one who gets shot by a cop who doesn't understand what you are doing. Unless you have an allergy to Kryptonite, it's a good idea to not make a cop think that shooting you is his best option.





    They are real world cases to you....your opinion only.
    Not hardly.

    Go look up the stats on police shootings during traffic stops. Pay special attention to the shootings that killed 4 cops in Oakland not long ago -- the first killed during a traffic stop.

    Then get hold of the book that your local LEOs use to learn Officer Safety, and read what it says about traffic stops. Check some of the officer blogs. Do a search on "police shooting traffic stop" and read some of the hits.

    The bottom line is that the cop intends to go home at the end of shift. If he has to shoot you do to that, he will shoot you -- so it is in your best interest to not make the cop think that shooting you might be a good idea.

    Even worse -- from your point of view -- is that if you are carrying, and there is a warning about you or your car, and the cop DOES shoot you because you are making "suspicious movements," it will be considered JUSTIFIED.

    Making the cop feel more comfortable is in YOUR best interests. Keeping your hands on the wheel and communicating clearly might keep you from getting shot -- failing to do so gets a number of people shot every year.

    Not my opinion, not "scenarios." FUNERALS.

    Consider the results of a training session a couple of years ago:

    "Officers attending a recent street survival class were given two scenarios.
    In the first, officers responded to a "man with a gun" call. Upon arrival, the man was standing in the street holding a handgun.
    Immediately, officers responded with commands ordering him to drop the weapon.
    In the second scenario, officers responded to the same call, but upon arrival the man was standing next to a table. Instead of him holding the gun, the gun was situated on the top of the table.
    Here, officers also gave commands ordering the man to the ground. When the man reached for the gun, officers fired.
    The point brought out by the instructors afterwards was very interesting.
    In the first scenario the man already had the gun, but the officers only responded with verbal commands. They didn't shoot.
    In the second, the man was just reaching for the gun, and the officers did shoot."
    The cops shot when it wasn't necessary -- because they saw a suspect going from unarmed to armed, and assumed that this was the precursor to an attack.
    So, those same cops, knowing that you weren't holding a gun while driving, see you dive for the right hip . . .what are they going to think, and what will that thought make them do?
    I don't want my tombstone to say "He was legal, but the cop guessed wrong". . !

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    DVC, you seem to be one of these folks that just likes to argue over the internet and just has to right....You have an opinion of course.....that does not make you right.

    I just don't have the time, and you keep running "what ifs".What if you never leave the old Barkolounger, then you don't need to worry about anything...except more chips and beer.


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    .45acp wrote:
    DVC, you seem to be one of these folks that just likes to argue over the internet and just has to right....You have an opinion of course.....that does not make you right.

    I just don't have the time, and you keep running "what ifs".What if you never leave the old Barkolounger, then you don't need to worry about anything...except more chips and beer.


    Steve
    They aren't "what ifs" -- they are ""what happeneds" . . .

    If necessary, I can find transcripts from numerous court cases in which drivers were shot by cops while reaching for wallets.

    The cops were regretful, but in each case they were exonerated by juries which were told about standard police procedure and given information on the number of cops shot during traffic stops.

    Several of those have happened within 50 miles of your house in the last year alone. Don't you think your local cops know the danger, and are willing to shoot you if that's what they think it takes to go home tonight?

    But have it your way. If you think this is about who wins the argument, I'm not going to get through to you anyhow.



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    DVC wrote:
    .45acp wrote:
    DVC, you seem to be one of these folks that just likes to argue over the internet and just has to right....You have an opinion of course.....that does not make you right.

    I just don't have the time, and you keep running "what ifs".What if you never leave the old Barkolounger, then you don't need to worry about anything...except more chips and beer.


    Steve
    They aren't "what ifs" -- they are ""what happeneds" . . .

    If necessary, I can find transcripts from numerous court cases in which drivers were shot by cops while reaching for wallets.

    The cops were regretful, but in each case they were exonerated by juries which were told about standard police procedure and given information on the number of cops shot during traffic stops.

    Several of those have happened within 50 miles of your house in the last year alone. Don't you think your local cops know the danger, and are willing to shoot you if that's what they think it takes to go home tonight?

    But have it your way. If you think this is about who wins the argument, I'm not going to get through to you anyhow.

    I for one would like to see the numerous cases. And the ones from the last year.

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    flagellum wrote:
    I can't count how many times I have giggled to myself doing the same stuff.* In Cali Lane splitting is legal on a motorcycle so I used to do it all the time.* Traveling through San Francisco durring girdlock laughing at everyone is a joyful experience.* :P*
    Hell, I drive like that in my coupe!

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    Vegassteve wrote:
    DVC wrote:
    If necessary, I can find transcripts from numerous court cases in which drivers were shot by cops while reaching for wallets.

    The cops were regretful, but in each case they were exonerated by juries which were told about standard police procedure and given information on the number of cops shot during traffic stops.

    Several of those have happened within 50 miles of your house in the last year alone. Don't you think your local cops know the danger, and are willing to shoot you if that's what they think it takes to go home tonight?

    But have it your way. If you think this is about who wins the argument, I'm not going to get through to you anyhow.

    I for one would like to see the numerous cases. And the ones from the last year.
    I misedited -- I had started to talk about court cases, and instead started thinking about newspaper accounts of traffic stops that went sour but failed to check my whole edit.

    Google "cochise sheriff traffic shooting" you will find a couple of them from .45's area. Google "traffic stop shooting" and you will find way more hits that I',m willing to cut and paste. Read the accounts, and you will see why cops in traffic stops are more likely to use their guns than when they are confronting a guy running out of a bank with a bag of money in one hand and a pistol in the other.

    My argument with .45 is essentially that he's telling me what's right -- and I agree with him, and think that AZ has gone the right way with the new no-permit CCW -- and I'm telling him what's going to keep him from getting slightly shot.

    He has the law on his side. All I can bring is a lot of experience around cops, having grown up in a cop household, having been in TV news, and having been called as an expert witness in a number of gun cases, including a couple of shootings in traffic stops.

    I'm as Libertarian as it gets, including full belief in the re-legalization of dope -- even though I am a Latter-day Saint, and don't even drink Coca-Cola -- but when I'm stopped, I keep my hands on the wheel until the cop makes contact and starts telling me what he wants me to do. I KNOW that my plates come back with notes that I've been known to carry (I've got radio coverage in my cars for just about every frequency from DC to blue light), and I value my reputation with the cops I meet of being cooperative, friendly and smart.

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    DVC wrote:
    I misedited -- I had started to talk about court cases, and instead started thinking about newspaper accounts of traffic stops that went sour but failed to check my whole edit.

    Google "cochise sheriff traffic shooting" you will find a couple of them from .45's area. Google "traffic stop shooting" and you will find way more hits that I',m willing to cut and paste. Read the accounts, and you will see why cops in traffic stops are more likely to use their guns than when they are confronting a guy running out of a bank with a bag of money in one hand and a pistol in the other.

    I did 'YOUR' Leg work and find nothing in the lastyear from cochise sherrif about a driver getting shot reaching for a wallet.

    So again I ask please post these many stories from the lastyear of a cop shooting someone reaching for a wallet in AZ.

    Your words"If necessary, I can find transcripts from numerous court cases in which drivers were shot by cops while reaching for wallets.

    The cops were regretful, but in each case they were exonerated by juries which were told about standard police procedure and given information on the number of cops shot during traffic stops.

    Several of those have happened within 50 miles of your house in the last year alone. Don't you think your local cops know the danger, and are willing to shoot you if that's what they think it takes to go home tonight?"


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    Vegassteve wrote
    I did 'YOUR' Leg work and find nothing in the lastyear from cochise sherrif about a driver getting shot reaching for a wallet.

    So again I ask please post these many stories from the lastyear of a cop shooting someone reaching for a wallet in AZ.

    Your words"If necessary, I can find transcripts from numerous court cases in which drivers were shot by cops while reaching for wallets.
    MY WORDS "I misedited . . ."

    I started working with one thought, had a different one, but didn't reread to fix my earlier statement.

    Tell you what -- why don't you go talk to your local cops, and ask them what THEY suggest . . ?

    Oh, wait, you're down in Vegas . . .go somewhere else in the state and ask THOSE cops (that way you will know they're not skewing things because of the oddball laws in LV).

    Before you read the quote below, ask yourself how you, Deputy, would tell the difference between a seated driver reaching in his back pocket for a wallet and reaching into a hip holster for a pistol.

    And again, Deputy, if you got a hit on the MDT saying that the vehicle is connected with a brandishing report, are you more or less likely to expect such a movement to be precursor to ADW?

    "The law does not demand that your perceived antagonist have a real weapon in order for you to employ lethal force in self defense. It only demands that his actions create in your mind a reasonable and prudent belief that he has a weapon. If he is close enough to employ such a weapon, and if his actions are consistent with an armed person trying to kill you (Diallo turned suddenly and thrust the hand with the black object toward the officers), then the requirements have been met for you to justifiably use deadly force in order to defend your own life."

    "Skulking in the Vestibule" by Massad Ayoob





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