Vegassteve
Regular Member
imported post
DVC wrote:
DVC wrote:
I for one would like to see the numerous cases. And the ones from the last year.
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Pulled over while "armed to the teeth" yesterday
- Thread starter Facejackets
- Start date
marshaul
Campaign Veteran
imported post
flagellum wrote:
flagellum wrote:
Hell, I drive like that in my coupe! :lol:I can't count how many times I have giggled to myself doing the same stuff. In Cali Lane splitting is legal on a motorcycle so I used to do it all the time. Traveling through San Francisco durring girdlock laughing at everyone is a joyful experience.
DVC
Regular Member
imported post
Vegassteve wrote:
Google "cochise sheriff traffic shooting" you will find a couple of them from .45's area. Google "traffic stop shooting" and you will find way more hits that I',m willing to cut and paste. Read the accounts, and you will see why cops in traffic stops are more likely to use their guns than when they are confronting a guy running out of a bank with a bag of money in one hand and a pistol in the other.
My argument with .45 is essentially that he's telling me what's right -- and I agree with him, and think that AZ has gone the right way with the new no-permit CCW -- and I'm telling him what's going to keep him from getting slightly shot.
He has the law on his side. All I can bring is a lot of experience around cops, having grown up in a cop household, having been in TV news, and having been called as an expert witness in a number of gun cases, including a couple of shootings in traffic stops.
I'm as Libertarian as it gets, including full belief in the re-legalization of dope -- even though I am a Latter-day Saint, and don't even drink Coca-Cola -- but when I'm stopped, I keep my hands on the wheel until the cop makes contact and starts telling me what he wants me to do. I KNOW that my plates come back with notes that I've been known to carry (I've got radio coverage in my cars for just about every frequency from DC to blue light), and I value my reputation with the cops I meet of being cooperative, friendly and smart.
Vegassteve wrote:
I misedited -- I had started to talk about court cases, and instead started thinking about newspaper accounts of traffic stops that went sour but failed to check my whole edit.
Google "cochise sheriff traffic shooting" you will find a couple of them from .45's area. Google "traffic stop shooting" and you will find way more hits that I',m willing to cut and paste. Read the accounts, and you will see why cops in traffic stops are more likely to use their guns than when they are confronting a guy running out of a bank with a bag of money in one hand and a pistol in the other.
My argument with .45 is essentially that he's telling me what's right -- and I agree with him, and think that AZ has gone the right way with the new no-permit CCW -- and I'm telling him what's going to keep him from getting slightly shot.
He has the law on his side. All I can bring is a lot of experience around cops, having grown up in a cop household, having been in TV news, and having been called as an expert witness in a number of gun cases, including a couple of shootings in traffic stops.
I'm as Libertarian as it gets, including full belief in the re-legalization of dope -- even though I am a Latter-day Saint, and don't even drink Coca-Cola -- but when I'm stopped, I keep my hands on the wheel until the cop makes contact and starts telling me what he wants me to do. I KNOW that my plates come back with notes that I've been known to carry (I've got radio coverage in my cars for just about every frequency from DC to blue light), and I value my reputation with the cops I meet of being cooperative, friendly and smart.
Vegassteve
Regular Member
imported post
DVC wrote:
I did 'YOUR' Leg work and find nothing in the lastyear from cochise sherrif about a driver getting shot reaching for a wallet.
So again I ask please post these many stories from the lastyear of a cop shooting someone reaching for a wallet in AZ.
Your words"If necessary, I can find transcripts from numerous court cases in which drivers were shot by cops while reaching for wallets.
The cops were regretful, but in each case they were exonerated by juries which were told about standard police procedure and given information on the number of cops shot during traffic stops.
Several of those have happened within 50 miles of your house in the last year alone. Don't you think your local cops know the danger, and are willing to shoot you if that's what they think it takes to go home tonight?"
DVC wrote:
I did 'YOUR' Leg work and find nothing in the lastyear from cochise sherrif about a driver getting shot reaching for a wallet.
So again I ask please post these many stories from the lastyear of a cop shooting someone reaching for a wallet in AZ.
Your words"If necessary, I can find transcripts from numerous court cases in which drivers were shot by cops while reaching for wallets.
The cops were regretful, but in each case they were exonerated by juries which were told about standard police procedure and given information on the number of cops shot during traffic stops.
Several of those have happened within 50 miles of your house in the last year alone. Don't you think your local cops know the danger, and are willing to shoot you if that's what they think it takes to go home tonight?"
DVC
Regular Member
imported post
Vegassteve wrote
I started working with one thought, had a different one, but didn't reread to fix my earlier statement.
Tell you what -- why don't you go talk to your local cops, and ask them what THEY suggest . . ?
Oh, wait, you're down in Vegas . . .go somewhere else in the state and ask THOSE cops (that way you will know they're not skewing things because of the oddball laws in LV).
Before you read the quote below, ask yourself how you, Deputy, would tell the difference between a seated driver reaching in his back pocket for a wallet and reaching into a hip holster for a pistol.
And again, Deputy, if you got a hit on the MDT saying that the vehicle is connected with a brandishing report, are you more or less likely to expect such a movement to be precursor to ADW?
"The law does not demand that your perceived antagonist have a real weapon in order for you to employ lethal force in self defense. It only demands that his actions create in your mind a reasonable and prudent belief that he has a weapon. If he is close enough to employ such a weapon, and if his actions are consistent with an armed person trying to kill you (Diallo turned suddenly and thrust the hand with the black object toward the officers), then the requirements have been met for you to justifiably use deadly force in order to defend your own life."
"Skulking in the Vestibule" by Massad Ayoob
Vegassteve wrote
MY WORDS "I misedited . . ."
I started working with one thought, had a different one, but didn't reread to fix my earlier statement.
Tell you what -- why don't you go talk to your local cops, and ask them what THEY suggest . . ?
Oh, wait, you're down in Vegas . . .go somewhere else in the state and ask THOSE cops (that way you will know they're not skewing things because of the oddball laws in LV).
Before you read the quote below, ask yourself how you, Deputy, would tell the difference between a seated driver reaching in his back pocket for a wallet and reaching into a hip holster for a pistol.
And again, Deputy, if you got a hit on the MDT saying that the vehicle is connected with a brandishing report, are you more or less likely to expect such a movement to be precursor to ADW?
"The law does not demand that your perceived antagonist have a real weapon in order for you to employ lethal force in self defense. It only demands that his actions create in your mind a reasonable and prudent belief that he has a weapon. If he is close enough to employ such a weapon, and if his actions are consistent with an armed person trying to kill you (Diallo turned suddenly and thrust the hand with the black object toward the officers), then the requirements have been met for you to justifiably use deadly force in order to defend your own life."
"Skulking in the Vestibule" by Massad Ayoob