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Thread: Man Charged in Open Carry Incident

  1. #1
    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    What a way to test the law!

    http://www.whbl.com/news/articles/20...arry-incident/

    Sheboygan, Wis. (WHBL) - A Sheboygan Falls man has been formally charged with possession of a firearm in a school zone. 23 year old Matthew Hubing is facing up to 3 and a half years in prison, if convicted. According to the criminal complaint, officers spotted Hubing on his bicycle carrying an unloaded rifle slung over his shoulder and a loaded pistol at his side. He was warned about being within 1,000 feet of an elementary school and said he had measured it and was not within 1,000 feet. The officer then returned later and measured the distance himself and determined it was within 1,000 feet of the Sheboygan Falls Elementary School.

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran logan's Avatar
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    First off I think this guy is stupid for doing what he's doing. I read an earlier article about him riding around on this bike with 2 guns (rifle and handgun).

    But the law does read knowingly...so if he thought he wasn't in a school zone because he had measured, then that's his defense.
    Logan - Laugh lots, Love Often, and Defend the Irreplaceable
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  3. #3
    Regular Member ArcticF7SnoPro's Avatar
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    After the initial confrontation he was left to go on his way. This would be like getting pulled over and the cop letting you off of a 20 mph over speeding ticket and then two days later the same cop pulls you over while you arewithin the lawand he changes his mind and gives you one for that day anyway. Can they do that? To me it seems as if any good lawyer could really argue this one. There are too many variables like his exact loction versus the presumed location that was measured and to me the fact that he was left to go initially would tell me that at the point of contact the scenario was judged to be within the law and if there was any question about it that it should have been dealt with right away.

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    Actually, I think it is worse than that...

    The police NEVER confronted him in a school zone. The talked to him on two different occasions, days apart. Then they decided that his point of departure and destination was in a school zone, so they call him and tell him to turn himself in.

    The greater question now is, will the VETERANS be subject to the same FELONY arrest when they carry firearms in the school zone during the upcoming memorial day parade?

    I will be contacting my local VFW and American legion and letting them know that they are subject to felony arrest should they show up with uncased unloaded firearms in a school zone, just like this fella.

  5. #5
    McX
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    did this in another thread; bam- there ya go. truth.

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    I don't get it. We all disagree with the GFSZ and we sit around and gripe that it is not fair and now someone has been charged with a violation. So we all sit around and call this guy an idiot for doing what we all gripe and complain that we should be able to do.

    Isn't that what the GFSZ law suit is all about? We should be supporting this guy instead of calling him names. The way the cops nailed him is ridiculous at best.



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    This is why you never talk to the police without legal representation. I think Sheboygan Falls would have to make public a school zone boundary in order to prosecute this case.

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    My question is; How did they determine what route he took?

    You have all been asked those seemingly innocuous questions when stopped by the cops like "Where are you coming from/Going to"
    Here ya go, a perfect example of why you do not talk to the cops!
    The guy they stopped gave them the exact evidence they needed to charge and prosecute him. If he would have kept his piehole shut, I bet he would not have been charged.

    Since the cop did not witness him in this alleged school zone, there was nothing they could do. But the guy starts talking and answering questions and it gave the cop exactly what he needed to charge him with the crime. Now the guy is looking at felony charges and will most likely lose his 2A rights for life.

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    Nutczak wrote:
    My question is; How did they determine what route he took?

    You have all been asked those seemingly innocuous questions when stopped by the cops like "Where are you coming from/Going to"
    Here ya go, a perfect example of why you do not talk to the cops!
    The guy they stopped gave them the exact evidence they needed to charge and prosecute him. If he would have kept his piehole shut, I bet he would not have been charged.

    Since the cop did not witness him in this alleged school zone, there was nothing they could do. But the guy starts talking and answering questions and it gave the cop exactly what he needed to charge him with the crime. Now the guy is looking at felony charges and will most likely lose his 2A rights for life.
    I don't think it stated that the guy gave them that information. If that was the case they would have arrested him on the spot. This is a presumption of the police.

    I am wondering if WCI has made any contact here and whether or not they will support him and be involved. I also think this is something Monroe should be interested in as he is the attorney for the GFSZ law suit.

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    <Cricket Chirp>

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    J.Gleason wrote:
    <Cricket Chirp>
    I don't think it's fair for crickets to chirp just over an hour after you ask a question.

    But, to respond to your comment, the case is interesting.

  12. #12
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    LOL! that chirp wasn't meant for you. I put that in to keep the thread up top. No one has been commenting on this.

  13. #13
    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Wisconsin Carry, Inc. - Chairman's Avatar
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    I am wondering if WCI has made any contact here and whether or not they will support him and be involved. I also think this is something Monroe should be interested in as he is the attorney for the GFSZ law suit.
    A couple of things... (and this comment relates to issues other than just this one, so this isn't directed at you James)

    There are MANY MANY things that WCI has "on the radar screen" and has taken significant actions steps on. Please understand that due to the nature of this being a public forum that we know is monitored by LE (thousands of pages of posting have been entered into the record in Federal Cases) and also that since OCDO was linked in comments section of the Journal Sentinel "stories" (and they sure are "stories") that brought mass numbers of "unfriendlies" to the site as well as HEAVY media watching of the OCDO site.

    It would not be prudent for WCI to announce our every move and tactic on this forum. NOR will we allow ourselves to be easy targets of the very biased media who would prejudice otherwise potentially supportive new members with inaccurate media portrayal of our organization and our mission.

    If you are asking a question on this very very public forum, which is heavily watched by media, LE, and non-supportive anti's and you don't get a detailed explanation, or a response at all, don't assume we aren't on top of something. I can assure you we are several steps ahead of the game even though we aren't making our every strategy and action public on here.

    Members are, of course always welcome to contact us and we will offer whatever information we can. Keep in mind with the size our dues paying membership base has grown to, its conceivable that we may simply not be able to respond individually to every person in the event that large numbers of people contact us with issues/questions. We will however, make sure that in our periodic updates sent out to members via email we let them know any significant happenings that they would be interested in and that we are at liberty to share.

    More specifically when it comes to arrests:

    First, WCI has never taken the position that we do 'criminal defense'.

    When people are facing criminal charges the game is totally different for them. Their life and liberty is on the line and the temptation to "settle" and take deals offered by the prosecutors is high. Those individuals, obviously, will be making the decisions that are best for them.

    This is not to say we won't be involved in some of them, but its very much a case by case basis and there are reasons it may or MAY NOT be in the best interest of WCI or the best use of our resources which our members have contributed to get involved. "How, if and when" we get involved in a specific case is also a carefully planned and contemplated strategy as well.

    I cannot be more specific on this public forum in the Sheboygan situation regarding our considerations of how if and when we will get involved because I'm not about to make the mistake made all to often on this forum of providing information to media and LE that will be used to make our task more difficult.

    We want to advance the cause. We want to advance the right to carry in Wisconsin and the opportunity of Wisconsin residents to carry in the manner of their choosing and exercise the human rights they are entitled which our state and federal constitution happen to reaffirm as well.

    People need to be accountable for their own actions and the honest truth is that WCI will "cherry pick" the situations we get involved in. Those that provide an opportunity to advance our mission. There is a difference between a "gun issue" and a "gun rights issue". We are also keenly aware that for some issues there is a strong advantage to a very public response, and for some issues a "behind the scenes" approach is best.

    So keep sharing any and all information you can find on these kinds of topics. There are happenings all over the state and the OCDO board is a great way to get that information out there. If you put it on here, we may not respond publicly, but it will hit our radar.

    Carry On
    www.wisconsincarry.org Wisconsin Carry, Inc. is not affiliated with opencarry.org or these web forums. Questions about discussion forum policy or forum moderation should be directed to the owners of opencarry.org not Wisconsin Carry, Inc.

  14. #14
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    That is an acceptable response. Thanks for posting.

    WCI's position is understandable.

    This is a case we all should watch closely.

  15. #15
    McX
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    we have to have confidence in our leadership, and patience while they investigate matters brought before them. we also have to understand that alot of information the organization collects in it's investigation is priviledged, and confidential, and may not be released to us. just because we don't hear anything doesn't mean the matter isn't being scrutinized. we all should be grateful that we have such and organization, and leadership working for us.

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    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Wisconsin Carry, Inc. - Chairman's Avatar
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    Our strategy will also change as we grow.

    When we have 10,000 members, we will have a critical mass such that there are news organizations that we will literally be able to "run over".

    Right now, to be honest, media has arguably more influence on our potential new membership than we do. As such we need to run "around" them.

    If your enemy is secure at all points, be prepared for him. If he is in superior strength, evade him. If your opponent is temperamental, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant. If he is taking his ease, give him no rest. If his forces are united, separate them. If sovereign and subject are in accord, put division between them. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected.
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    Or as I like to say... There are times to wag the dog, times to kick the dog and times to let sleeping dogs lie.
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    I have two dogs one weighs 170lbs and the other 190lbs. they pretty much do what ever they want.

  18. #18
    McX
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    and now in a blatant attempt to turn the thread; our area is probably under gang control, their emblems adorn some buildings. not ours. we noted that the bloods, or whoever they are, have had their emblems defaced, by the cripps- or whoever they are. this signals a hostile environment to us, and probable gang confrontations. it's going to be a long open carry summer here.

  19. #19
    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    McX wrote:
    We have to have confidence in our leadership, and patience while they investigate matters brought before them. we also have to understand that alot of information the organization collects in it's investigation is priviledged, and confidential, and may not be released to us. Just because we don't hear anything doesn't mean the matter isn't being scrutinized. We all should be grateful that we have such and organization, and leadership working for us.
    Very true words.

  20. #20
    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    Support The 2nd wrote:
    Actually, I think it is worse than that...

    The police NEVER confronted him in a school zone. The talked to him on two different occasions, days apart. Then they decided that his point of departure and destination was in a school zone, so they call him and tell him to turn himself in.

    The greater question now is, will the VETERANS be subject to the same FELONY arrest when they carry firearms in the school zone during the upcoming memorial day parade?

    I will be contacting my local VFW and American legion and letting them know that they are subject to felony arrest should they show up with uncased unloaded firearms in a school zone, just like this fella.
    Submit a video tape of the parade showing a violation and see if the state will persecute all the veterans marching within the 1000' zone.

  21. #21
    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
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    The judge dismissed, they REMEASURED, and re-filed.

    http://www.sheboyganpress.com/articl...0101/100604055

    And they still have to show he KNEW he was in the school zone.

    If THEY couldn't even tell without measuring twice, how is an ordinary citizen supposed to know?


  22. #22
    Regular Member AdamXD's Avatar
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    Maybe this guy is very thorough in educating himself on where his local schools are. If I were to travel with a gun on my hip as well as a rifle slung over my shoulder on a bicycle, I would physically go to the school's laying on my intended path of travel, use a measuring wheel and measure from the closest school building as well as the edge of the grounds. If I find that I cannot travel down a certain street, I don't use it. With Milwaukee and its outlying counties being so heavily populated by schools, I would ask here, if someone with a vehicle would be able to help me stay within the law on transporting my firearms.

    But I am one to err on the side of caution. If this guy knew exactly where the school zone ended, more power to him.

    I think we should get together and propose that the city either clearly mark the transition from SFGZ to GFSZ with signs or painted lines. If the city is this adamant about disarming its citizens, they should let us know where to go to be victimized and killed.
    J.A.Salinas
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  23. #23
    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
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    The 1000ft is measured as the crow flies, so a wheel measurement as suggested isn't possible unless you traverse private property.

    From a practical legal standpoint, measurement is NOT possible by the lay (ordinary) person and thus is practically forecloses on your right to carry.

    I would make the argument that NONE of us can know for sure.




  24. #24
    Regular Member AdamXD's Avatar
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    I chose the measuring wheel as an example for its accuracy in measuring distances on foot. I thought about using GPS, but those aren't accurate to the inch. Sure, you could use google maps with satellite overlay, then plot and measure from the closest building as well as the property boundary, but again, I chose the measuring wheel to emulate the physical effort one would take to insure they are within the law.

    And of course all aforementioned measuring would be done unarmed. It would be quite reckless to try to measure the distance from a school zone with a gun on your hip..
    J.A.Salinas
    "Natural Selection is another way of God telling you you're an idiot"

  25. #25
    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
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    The law doesn't state the we the citizens MUST measure.

    I REFUSE to measure any distance from any supposed school. That is why we have the lawsuit going.



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