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Man Charged in Open Carry Incident

AdamXD

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Maybe this guy is very thorough in educating himself on where his local schools are. If I were to travel with a gun on my hip as well as a rifle slung over my shoulder on a bicycle, I would physically go to the school's laying on my intended path of travel, use a measuring wheel and measure from the closest school building as well as the edge of the grounds. If I find that I cannot travel down a certain street, I don't use it. With Milwaukee and its outlying counties being so heavily populated by schools, I would ask here, if someone with a vehicle would be able to help me stay within the law on transporting my firearms.

But I am one to err on the side of caution. If this guy knew exactly where the school zone ended, more power to him.

I think we should get together and propose that the city either clearly mark the transition from SFGZ to GFSZ with signs or painted lines. If the city is this adamant about disarming its citizens, they should let us know where to go to be victimized and killed.
 

bnhcomputing

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The 1000ft is measured as the crow flies, so a wheel measurement as suggested isn't possible unless you traverse private property.

From a practical legal standpoint, measurement is NOT possible by the lay (ordinary) person and thus is practically forecloses on your right to carry.

I would make the argument that NONE of us can know for sure.
 

AdamXD

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I chose the measuring wheel as an example for its accuracy in measuring distances on foot. I thought about using GPS, but those aren't accurate to the inch. Sure, you could use google maps with satellite overlay, then plot and measure from the closest building as well as the property boundary, but again, I chose the measuring wheel to emulate the physical effort one would take to insure they are within the law.

And of course all aforementioned measuring would be done unarmed. It would be quite reckless to try to measure the distance from a school zone with a gun on your hip..
 

bnhcomputing

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The law doesn't state the we the citizens MUST measure.

I REFUSE to measure any distance from any supposed school. That is why we have the lawsuit going.
 

Wisconsin Carry Inc. - Chairman

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We have a right to self defense as human beings. The right to carry affords us an ability to exercise that right. Our state constitution very clearly re-affirms this human right we have.

The GFSZ law makes any meaningful attempt to exercise this right nearly impossible.

I can't believe the legislature has left it up to an organization like ours to have to fight in court to have the ability to exercise such a basic human right without living in fear of a felony charge. Its unconscionable.
 

Captain Nemo

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This would be an excellent case to get elivated to the WSSC. Unfortunately the risk is great. It would require that the oerson be convicted of the current charges and then there is no assurance that if convicted and appealed that the WSSC will even hear the case. The result being a felony conviction and loss of firearm possession for life. My opinion is that the legislature intentionally made the penalty a felony in order to dissuade legal contests. Then , again, I may be giving the legislature credit for intellegence it doesn't possess.

In any regard the fact the prosecution got two different measurements (and there is no evidence that even the second measurement is correct). Was it done by the police department? If so what technique was used? Anything less than a professional survey is prone to error. According to measurement two, the error in judgement by the accused was 46 feet. That amounts to an error percentage of 4.6%. Most private citizens don't have ready access to a measurig technique with that degree of accuracy. The only method of measurement that is generally without question is a professional survey. Any other measurement is subject. It is especially subject ifa straight line measurement must traverse private property where it may encounter buildingswhich require measurement bypasses, each bypass injects possible error into the measurement. By bypass I mean each time the measurement encounters a building the track must deviate 90 degrees, measure the building, then deviate 90 degrees back to the original line. By now you are seeing the stupidity of the whole situation. Remember, we're talking about a 46' 1in. distance which would determine guilty or not guilty. 46 feet in over a fifth of a mile. I'm suprised the prosecution didn't let the judges dismissal stand, especially when even they didn't get it right the first time.
 

bnhcomputing

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And remember the language of the statute:

948.605(2)(a)
(a) Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone is guilty of a Class I felony.

When the DA AND LEO didn't KNOW at the time, but had to go back and measure twice, I just don't see how any of us could have known.
 

J.Gleason

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Judge Stengal is the supervising judge for this area. I would not be surprised if this does not get dismissed a second time as the city has not marked the curbs in the GFSZ so the average person would know they are in the GFSZ.

They mark the curbs for no parking areas, why can't they mark them for the GFSZ?
 

JoeSparky

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J.Gleason wrote:
Judge Stengal is the supervising judge for this area. I would not be surprised if this does not get dismissed a second time as the city has not marked the curbs in the GFSZ so the average person would know they are in the GFSZ.

They mark the curbs for no parking areas, why can't they mark them for the GFSZ?
Referencing the underlined comments....

Oh, PLEASE DON'T GIVE THEM ANY IDEAS..... seems just like asking for No Guns signs....
 

Wisconsin Carry Inc. - Chairman

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bnhcomputing wrote:
And remember the language of the statute:

948.605(2)(a)     
(a) Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone is guilty of a Class I felony.

When the DA AND LEO didn't KNOW at the time, but had to go back and measure twice, I just don't see how any of us could have known.

Spot on... This is a joke. So what we are talking about here is an "imaginary" 46 feet is the difference between a felony and a law-abiding act? Thats insane.

I'll be doing a press release on monday. Radio, tv, and newspaper.
 

bnhcomputing

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JoeSparky wrote:
Oh, PLEASE DON'T GIVE THEM ANY IDEAS..... seems just like asking for No Guns signs....
Actually Sparky it may come to that.

The would have to mark EVERY street, sidewalk, and alleyway. They couldn't just mark the outer edge either, they would have to mark EVERY BIT of public property within the zone.

Anybody know what that would cost? No way they'll ever do it, this statute was specifically designed to ENTRAP!

Might also be interesting to have his lawyer make an "is the sidewalk REALLY public property" argument.
 

Wisconsin Carry Inc. - Chairman

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I agree. I challenge the state to mark these school zones. With a potential felony on the line, they owe it to law abiding citizens to let them know where these "imaginary" lines are where on one side you are law-abiding, a few feet (literally) away you are a felon.

This Sheboygan case is a perfect example of how absurd this law is. Well... absurd if not for the fact its a felony. Egregious is more accurate.
 

J.Gleason

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JoeSparky wrote:
J.Gleason wrote:
Judge Stengal is the supervising judge for this area. I would not be surprised if this does not get dismissed a second time as the city has not marked the curbs in the GFSZ so the average person would know they are in the GFSZ.

They mark the curbs for no parking areas, why can't they mark them for the GFSZ?
Referencing the underlined comments....

Oh, PLEASE DON'T GIVE THEM ANY IDEAS..... seems just like asking for No Guns signs...
Whether you like it or not the truth of the matter is, that unless they mark the GFSZ there is no factual way of knowing at all times if you are within the zone or not.

How do you measure through houses and private property?

Until they mark the zone there is no way that they could prove that you knowingly went into the GFSZ.

I am not giving them ideas. I am stating the facts. Imagine the cost of painting all of those curbs!
 

boostintalon96

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Well I am a WCI member and I hope that if I accidently carry at a business that I didn't know was in a school zone that I would recieve some type of support (maybe not nessesarily monetary support for legal defense) but I would like to think that The organization would be behind me in some way. Even if I wasn't one of the "cherry picked" golden boys.

One of the only things I am afraid of when I OC is accidently carrying somewhere that I might not know about being inside a GFSZ.
 

JoeSparky

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boostintalon96 wrote:
Well I am a WCI member and I hope that if I accidently carry at a business that I didn't know was in a school zone that I would recieve some type of support (maybe not nessesarily monetary support for legal defense) but I would like to think that The organization would be behind me in some way. Even if I wasn't one of the "cherry picked" golden boys.

One of the only things I am afraid of when I OC is accidently carrying somewhere that I might not know about being inside a GFSZ.
The was a recent case in California involving a member of OCDO (Thesus, I think) and the judge ruled that the private parking lot of the Laudromat was indeed PULIC PROPERTY and he was convicted. I am not sure right now of the exact charge (from California it could have been a loaded in public type charge) and I believe it is being appealed!
 
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