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Let's Start A Barrage

AL Ranger

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
238
Location
Huntsville, Alabama, USA
imported post

This is my 2 page letter going to the State Legislators.

Many of us in the gun-owning community are looking for some pro-gun, pro-civil rights legislators to come to our aid and make some changes in the current gun laws. There are really only two problems with the current laws that cause us concern. These two laws are in the criminal code: 13A-11-52 and 13A-11-73.

13A-11-52 reads: “Except as otherwise provided in this article, no person shall carry a pistol about his person on premises not his own or under his control; but this section shall not apply to any sheriff or his deputy or police officer of an incorporated town or city in the lawful discharge of the duties of his office, or to United States marshal or his deputies, rural free delivery mail carriers in the discharge of their duties as such, bonded constables in the discharge of their duties as such, conductors, railway mail clerks and express messengers in the discharge of their duties.”

13A-11-73 reads: “
No person shall carry a pistol in any vehicle or concealed on or about his person, except on his land, in his own abode or fixed place of business, without a license therefor as hereinafter provided.”

Both of these laws have been changed and re-written several times which shows the problems they have had. They are simply bad laws and need to be repealed. Here are the reasons why.

First, in -52, the section “no person shall carry a pistol about his person on premises not his own or under his control” is a lie and a violation of the State Constitution.

Alabama has always recognized the right of a citizen to carry guns (pistol, rifle, shotgun) for self-defense or defense of the state. A pistol is the easiest and most common weapon used for this purpose, as our police, deputies and troopers all carry pistols.

Alabama has been an Open Carry state since it was founded. Our laws, Supreme Court rulings, Attorneys General opinions, etc. all prove the recognized right of a citizen to openly carry a pistol for any lawful purpose. This law above could be applied to make hunting and target practice with a pistol illegal unless on your own property. Meaning you could be arrested for taking your pistol to a gun range for target practice.

This section, if read carefully, is actually to authorize those listed as exceptions to carry firearms onto private property in the performance of their jobs. The phrase “discharge of their duties” is used four times to prove just that.

Second, in -73, the original law stated “no person shall carry a “concealed” pistol in any vehicle or concealed on or about his person…”. This law has several problems.

1. If you have gun, it must be carried in the trunk if you are unlicensed. For those of us who carry openly unlicensed, this means that every time we get in to the car we first have to remove the pistol from the holster, place the pistol in the trunk and when we arrive at our destination, retrieve the pistol and re-holster it. If you have several stops to make, this is a major inconvenience…unless you have a license.

2. This law does not let you protect yourself in a car with a pistol which violates the recently passed law commonly referred to as the Castle Doctrine…unless you have a license.

3. The law makes no distinction as to whether carrying in the trunk of a car is considered to be concealed or not. This has been the topic of discussion in the forums of many pro-gun websites.

4. This law makes no distinction between “covering” or “concealed”. Covering a gun was commonly practiced whenever the gun owner threw on a jacket, or when it was windy, rainy or cold outside. Concealing was the intentional hiding a gun as an act of deception - to appear unarmed. Covering shouldn’t be defined as “concealing”.

5. Carrying a gun, openly, is already a recognized right which is unlicensed. A license does not permit you to carry, it permits you to “cover” a gun you can already legally carry and/or to have it with you in a vehicle.

6. This law ONLY applies to pistols, not to rifles or shotguns. And since Alabama just passed the repeal on short-barrel rifles and shotguns, this law doesn’t apply to those weapons, either! Which means we can carry loads of weapons in our cars, we just can’t carry a pistol…where is the logic in that?

The history of the licensing of pistols goes back to the “black codes” when former slaves had to prove they were “good nig***s” before they could receive a license to carry a gun and not get beaten, which was the punishment for armed blacks after the War. The reason for licenses today has nothing to do with crime, because criminals don’t bother to get licenses. Licenses were created by “hoplophobes” (someone with a fear of weapons or armed citizens) to feel better about their fellow man. They think “if someone has a license that means they have been checked out and are “good nig***s, er, I mean, good people!” This means that licensing (background checks and fees) is actually a violation of our civil rights. Try explaining to any black gun owner in this state that they have to obey the same licensing laws their ancestors were forced to obey after they got their freedom.

These laws should be repealed as they are simply bad law and their constant revisions are proof of that. A license to carry “covered” what you can already carry “uncovered” is asinine. A citizen must have a “background check” and “purchase an annual license” to throw his jacket over his gun or have it with him in his car? I don’t need a background check to carry openly because the State recognizes that my self-defense is none of their business. But, according to the law, I can have a gun in my car, for self-protection, according to the Castle Doctrine…only if I pass their background check and pay a fee and renew it every year. Or, better yet, explain to the black gun owners of this state that, like their ancestors, they have to prove they are “good nig***s” before they can carry concealed or in their car.

Alabama gun owners should not be harassed or made to be criminals by the laws of the state as they go about their daily lives. However, at the present time, this is not the case. These laws on the books that are poorly written, have been changed multiple times because of this, and due to the ignorance or overzealousness of some in law-enforcement, have made citizens into criminals. These laws violate the Alabama Constitution, the US Constitution and they are violations of our civil rights. Just for these reasons alone, these laws should be repealed and stricken from the books.

We are hoping you can help us by coming to our aid to get this matter resolved. This letter is being sent to every member of the state house and senate in the hopes that one or more members will have the intestinal fortitude to stand up and do the right thing for the law-abiding citizens and gun-owners in the state.

In advance, I’d like to thank you for picking up this cause to restore our basic human and civil rights, as outlined in the Alabama Constitution and the US Constitution.

 

Hollowpoint38

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
387
Location
A sandwich made of knuckles, Hoover, Alabama
imported post

AL Ranger wrote:
This is my 2 page letter going to the State Legislators.

Many of us in the gun-owning community are looking for some pro-gun, pro-civil rights legislators to come to our aid and make some changes in the current gun laws. There are really only two problems with the current laws that cause us concern. These two laws are in the criminal code: 13A-11-52 and 13A-11-73.

13A-11-52 reads: “Except as otherwise provided in this article, no person shall carry a pistol about his person on premises not his own or under his control; but this section shall not apply to any sheriff or his deputy or police officer of an incorporated town or city in the lawful discharge of the duties of his office, or to United States marshal or his deputies, rural free delivery mail carriers in the discharge of their duties as such, bonded constables in the discharge of their duties as such, conductors, railway mail clerks and express messengers in the discharge of their duties.”

13A-11-73 reads: “
No person shall carry a pistol in any vehicle or concealed on or about his person, except on his land, in his own abode or fixed place of business, without a license therefor as hereinafter provided.”

Both of these laws have been changed and re-written several times which shows the problems they have had. They are simply bad laws and need to be repealed. Here are the reasons why.

First, in -52, the section “no person shall carry a pistol about his person on premises not his own or under his control” is a lie and a violation of the State Constitution.

Alabama has always recognized the right of a citizen to carry guns (pistol, rifle, shotgun) for self-defense or defense of the state. A pistol is the easiest and most common weapon used for this purpose, as our police, deputies and troopers all carry pistols.

Alabama has been an Open Carry state since it was founded. Our laws, Supreme Court rulings, Attorneys General opinions, etc. all prove the recognized right of a citizen to openly carry a pistol for any lawful purpose. This law above could be applied to make hunting and target practice with a pistol illegal unless on your own property. Meaning you could be arrested for taking your pistol to a gun range for target practice.

This section, if read carefully, is actually to authorize those listed as exceptions to carry firearms onto private property in the performance of their jobs. The phrase “discharge of their duties” is used four times to prove just that.

Second, in -73, the original law stated “no person shall carry a “concealed” pistol in any vehicle or concealed on or about his person…”. This law has several problems.

1. If you have gun, it must be carried in the trunk if you are unlicensed. For those of us who carry openly unlicensed, this means that every time we get in to the car we first have to remove the pistol from the holster, place the pistol in the trunk and when we arrive at our destination, retrieve the pistol and re-holster it. If you have several stops to make, this is a major inconvenience…unless you have a license.

2. This law does not let you protect yourself in a car with a pistol which violates the recently passed law commonly referred to as the Castle Doctrine…unless you have a license.

3. The law makes no distinction as to whether carrying in the trunk of a car is considered to be concealed or not. This has been the topic of discussion in the forums of many pro-gun websites.

4. This law makes no distinction between “covering” or “concealed”. Covering a gun was commonly practiced whenever the gun owner threw on a jacket, or when it was windy, rainy or cold outside. Concealing was the intentional hiding a gun as an act of deception - to appear unarmed. Covering shouldn’t be defined as “concealing”.

5. Carrying a gun, openly, is already a recognized right which is unlicensed. A license does not permit you to carry, it permits you to “cover” a gun you can already legally carry and/or to have it with you in a vehicle.

6. This law ONLY applies to pistols, not to rifles or shotguns. And since Alabama just passed the repeal on short-barrel rifles and shotguns, this law doesn’t apply to those weapons, either! Which means we can carry loads of weapons in our cars, we just can’t carry a pistol…where is the logic in that?

The history of the licensing of pistols goes back to the “black codes” when former slaves had to prove they were “good nig***s” before they could receive a license to carry a gun and not get beaten, which was the punishment for armed blacks after the War. The reason for licenses today has nothing to do with crime, because criminals don’t bother to get licenses. Licenses were created by “hoplophobes” (someone with a fear of weapons or armed citizens) to feel better about their fellow man. They think “if someone has a license that means they have been checked out and are “good nig***s, er, I mean, good people!” This means that licensing (background checks and fees) is actually a violation of our civil rights. Try explaining to any black gun owner in this state that they have to obey the same licensing laws their ancestors were forced to obey after they got their freedom.

These laws should be repealed as they are simply bad law and their constant revisions are proof of that. A license to carry “covered” what you can already carry “uncovered” is asinine. A citizen must have a “background check” and “purchase an annual license” to throw his jacket over his gun or have it with him in his car? I don’t need a background check to carry openly because the State recognizes that my self-defense is none of their business. But, according to the law, I can have a gun in my car, for self-protection, according to the Castle Doctrine…only if I pass their background check and pay a fee and renew it every year. Or, better yet, explain to the black gun owners of this state that, like their ancestors, they have to prove they are “good nig***s” before they can carry concealed or in their car.

Alabama gun owners should not be harassed or made to be criminals by the laws of the state as they go about their daily lives. However, at the present time, this is not the case. These laws on the books that are poorly written, have been changed multiple times because of this, and due to the ignorance or overzealousness of some in law-enforcement, have made citizens into criminals. These laws violate the Alabama Constitution, the US Constitution and they are violations of our civil rights. Just for these reasons alone, these laws should be repealed and stricken from the books.

We are hoping you can help us by coming to our aid to get this matter resolved. This letter is being sent to every member of the state house and senate in the hopes that one or more members will have the intestinal fortitude to stand up and do the right thing for the law-abiding citizens and gun-owners in the state.

In advance, I’d like to thank you for picking up this cause to restore our basic human and civil rights, as outlined in the Alabama Constitution and the US Constitution.

I really like it. Nicely done. But I think you need to find a better way to phrase the sections in red. We don't want to appear as racists and get brushed aside.
 

Brimstone Baritone

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2010
Messages
786
Location
Leeds, Alabama, USA
imported post

The second problem: Under the United States Constitution and the Alabama Constitution, I have the right to peacefully protest.
Fixed it for you. ;)


Ranger, I know you only mean that the restrictions on guns were originally aimed at suppressing the rights of blacks and poor whites, but I think it might get the point across better if you didn't use inflammatory language. I thought it was a great point, though. I agree we shouldn't have to submit ourselves to all these steps as if we were some sort of second class citizen just for wanting to own guns...
 

AL Ranger

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
238
Location
Huntsville, Alabama, USA
imported post

It was in no way meant to be inflammatory. I was stating that because at the time those licensing laws went into effect, that was the meaning behind it. As I said, use it, change it or create your own. Maybe I should have been more specific in my wording, but I'll re-read it before I decide to send it off. Thanks for the words of encouragement and the ideas. Unfortunately, there is one problem with revoking the concealed pistol law...no reciprocity with other states. If you don't have a concealed permit, when you go to other states, you can't carry concealed.
 

AL Ranger

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
238
Location
Huntsville, Alabama, USA
imported post

Point made...that's why I wanted to talk this stuff out before it sees the light of day. Like Eye95 says, we need a few direct points to present and stand behind them to get what we need and we can work on other points later.
 

AL Ranger

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
238
Location
Huntsville, Alabama, USA
imported post

Here's the new updated version of my letter to the legislators in Montgomery.

Many of us in the gun-owning community are looking for some pro-gun, pro-civil rights legislators to come to our aid and make some changes in the current gun laws. There are really only two problems with the current laws that cause us concern. These two laws are in the criminal code: 13A-11-52 and 13A-11-73. The two laws are listed below.

13A-11-52 reads: “Except as otherwise provided in this article, no person shall carry a pistol about his person on premises not his own or under his control; but this section shall not apply to any sheriff or his deputy or police officer of an incorporated town or city in the lawful discharge of the duties of his office, or to United States marshal or his deputies, rural free delivery mail carriers in the discharge of their duties as such, bonded constables in the discharge of their duties as such, conductors, railway mail clerks and express messengers in the discharge of their duties.”

13A-11-73
reads: “No person shall carry a pistol in any vehicle or concealed on or about his person, except on his land, in his own abode or fixed place of business, without a license therefor as hereinafter provided.”

Both of these laws have been changed and re-written several times which shows the problems they have had. They are simply bad laws and need to be changed or repealed. Here are the reasons why.

First, in -52, the segment “no person shall carry a pistol about his person on premises not his own or under his control” is a lie and a violation of our rights as well as the State and US Constitutions.

Alabama has always recognized the right of a citizen to carry guns (pistol, rifle, shotgun) for sport, self-defense or defense of the state. A pistol is the easiest and most common weapon used for this purpose, as our police, deputies and troopers all carry pistols.

Alabama has been an Open Carry state since it was founded. Our laws, Supreme Court rulings, Attorneys General opinions, etc. all prove the recognized right of a citizen to openly carry a pistol for any lawful purpose. This law above could be applied to make hunting and target practice with a pistol illegal unless on your own property, meaning, a citizen could be arrested for taking his pistol to a gun range for target practice.

In the June 1840 Alabama Supreme Court decision in State v Reid, the Court declared that the (State) Legislature can not inhibit the citizen from carrying openly because the State Constitution recognizes the right to carry arms for defense of self and the State and that open carry is the best way to do this. -52 violates the letter and spirit of the law.

The last section, the largest part, if read carefully, is actually to authorize those listed as exceptions, to carry firearms onto private property only in the performance of their jobs. The phrase “discharge of their duties” is used four times to prove just that

Second, in -73, the original law stated “no person shall carry a ‘concealed’ pistol in any vehicle or concealed on or about his person…”. This law has several problems.

1. If you have pistol, it must be carried in the trunk of your car or in the bed of your truck if you are unlicensed. For those of us who carry openly unlicensed, this means that every time we get in to the car we first have to remove the pistol from the holster, place the pistol in the trunk and when we arrive at our destination, retrieve the pistol and re-holster it. If you have several stops to make, this is a major inconvenience…unless you have a license.

2. This law does not let you protect yourself in a car with a pistol which violates the recently passed law commonly referred to as the Castle Doctrine…unless you have a license.

3. The law makes no distinction as to whether carrying in the trunk of a car is considered to be concealed or not. This has been the topic of discussion in the forums of many pro-gun websites.

4. This law makes no distinction between “covering” or “concealed”. Covering a gun was commonly practiced whenever the gun owner threw on a jacket, or when it was windy, rainy or cold outside. Concealing was the intentional hiding of a gun as an act of deception - to appear unarmed. Covering shouldn’t be defined as “concealing”.

5. Carrying a gun, openly, is already a recognized right which is unlicensed. A license does not permit you to carry, it permits you to “cover” a gun you can already legally carry and/or to have it with you in a vehicle.

6. This law ONLY applies to pistols, not to rifles or shotguns. Since Alabama just passed the repeal on short-barrel rifles and shotguns, this law doesn’t apply to those weapons, either! This means we can carry loads of weapons in our cars, and/or conceal them, we just can’t carry or conceal a pistol in a car without a license…where is the logic in that?

7. The license to conceal is left to the discretion of the Sheriff as a “may issue” not “shall issue“. He may or may not give someone a license depending upon his decision as to if I’m the right color, or political party, or fraternity group, etc., etc. Licenses should be “shall issue” not “may issue”.

The history of the licensing of pistols goes back to the racist “black codes”. Unlike whites who carried pistols any way they wanted, former slaves had to prove they were “good enough” before they could receive a license to carry a gun. Punishments for blacks with guns, after the War, were severe beatings or death. The reason for licenses today is pretty much the same thing and has nothing to do with crime since criminals don’t bother to get licenses. Licenses were created by “hoplophobes” (people with a fear of weapons or armed citizens) to feel better about their fellow man carrying a pistol. They think “if someone has a license that means they have been checked out and are ‘good people‘!” This means that licensing (background checks and fees) is actually a violation of our civil rights. Try explaining to any black gun owner in this state that they have to obey the same racist licensing laws their ancestors were forced to submit to after they won their freedom.

What changes need to be made to these laws to allow them to work for citizens instead of against us?

First, repeal 13A-11-52. It is a bad law and it violates the State Constitution on several levels. Or, if it is to be re-written, simply remove the reference to the “no person…” segment. Just make the law apply to those it was meant to help and authorize…those who are commissioned to carry pistols as part of their jobs.

Second, in 13A-11-73, most definitely, we need to have the “in any vehicle” segment removed. The Castle Doctrine law acknowledges that my car is an extension of my home. I can carry in my home and I should be able to carry in my car, as well. To an open carrier, like myself, it would mean I no longer have to disarm before getting behind the wheel every time I want to go somewhere. We understand that we need concealed licenses in this state so that we may carry in states that offer reciprocity with Alabama. Personally, I would prefer that the permit was offered for just the carry in other states and reciprocity alone. I hate the idea that if my jacket or shirt covers my openly carried pistol I could be arrested for breaking the law since it makes no distinction between “cover“ and “conceal“. If -73 is changed or altered, you may need to make changes to corresponding laws, -74 and -75, as well.

NOTE
: The law forbidding gun carriers to be at demonstrations (13A-11-59) is at odds with the recognized right to “peaceably assemble”. Any law officer could define several gun carriers standing around talking or meeting at a restaurant as a “demonstration” and arrest all of us. It has happened before and may happen again if this is not changed, as well. The definition is given in the law but does not state the “parameters” which have to be met to be considered a demonstration leaving this open to misinterpretation by law enforcement again. If you think these run-ins with law enforcement are exaggerations, please go the websites below and read some of the posts in the forums.

We are hoping you can help us by coming to our aid to get this matter resolved. This letter is being sent to every member of the State House and Senate in the hopes that one or more members will have the intestinal fortitude to stand up and do the right thing for the law-abiding citizens and gun-owners in the state, thereby earning our heartfelt respect and gratitude.

For more info regarding these laws and their negative effect on Alabama citizens and more, please visit
www.alabamaopencarry.com and www.opencarry.org.

Thank you for your time and consideration in this matter.
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
imported post

The key point in a letter asking for the repeal of -52 would be the point that it is already invalid as a means to restrict OC and serves only to provide cover for rogue LEOs violating the rights of lawful carriers.

Any argument for the repeal of -52 should start an end with this idea, with support in between short enough to capture the attention of the most ADD politico.

Our letters must grab the attention of its recipients and focus their attention where we want it. Otherwise we risk their reading what they want to read and shutting down after paragraph one.

In Birmingham, we thought that a well-expressed argument would be heard and understood by the folks from whom we are seeking justice. Not leading off with a proper "grabber" resulted in the head of the Birmingham Council pretty much ignoring a well-reasoned presentation and hearing a completely different message than the one being delivered.

No matter how well a letter is written, it will fall on blind eyes if it doesn't contain these elements:

-- A focus throughout on one demand (two at the most).

-- A grabber. A shocking, short statement of the problem. The very first sentence or two should clearly, succinctly, and powerfully state the demand. (Law-abiding citizens throughout Alabama are having their right to keep an bear arms abridged by rogue law enforcement officers using the confusion created by the all but defunct 13A-11-52 as cover. This code section must be repealed immediately to stop the practice of officers seizing weapons and permits from law-abiding citizens.)

-- Support. No more than three ideas in support. Explain why -52 is creating confusion and that it is not dealing OC.

-- A regrabber. A reminder of that one demand (two at the most). (We must stop this dangerous violation of rights under the fraudulent cover of 13A-11-52. Repeal it now!)
 
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