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Thread: If turned down for a cwp can i still open carry

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    Regular Member scratchkenny's Avatar
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    I have my VA. CWP but I open carry most of the time. If turned down for a cwp can a person still open carry? Iwas just wondering if it would be legal. If your turned down for a CWP then i would think that would be grounds for a reason not to open carry.



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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Depends why you were turned down. If it's for some sort of legal violation that makes you ineligible, then it depends on what the violation is. There are some infractions that will disqualify you for a CHP, but do not make you a "prohibited person" for possessing a firearm...

    Details, details, details...

    If you are turned down for a CHP because of some nebulous, judgement-call, "issue of questionable character", then that's a different thing altogether. OC is not prohibited for people because some Sheriff doesn't like the way you look...

    However, if you get stopped for OC, (illegally) and an officer finds that you've been denied a CHP (I don't know if that would show when they search for a criminal record in VA or not), then it might cause some difficulties...

    We need more MUCH more specific details before any meaningful advice can be given.
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    Regular Member scratchkenny's Avatar
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    thanks for the reply.. I have my CWP,I was just wondering. how it would work out.

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    Here in WA state, if you can legally own a handgun you can legally open carry it.



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    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    scratchkenny wrote:
    ...If turned down for a cwp can a person still open carry? Iwas just wondering if it would be legal. If your turned down for a CWP then i would think that would be grounds for a reason not to open carry.
    Sure, it's possible to OC legally after being rejected for a CWP/CWL.But, as Dreamer mentioned it depends on what the turn down reason was.





    scratchkenny wrote:
    ... If your turned down for a CWP then i would think that would be grounds for a reason not to open carry.

    That is a reasonable and logical assumption. But it is quite incorrect.

    Because CC and OC regulatory histories (depending on the state)are different, thereare almost alwaysdifferences in conditions that preclude a person from carrying legally (OC vs. CC), sometimes significantly so. One example is domestic violence convictions. It's common for states to disqualify a person having one from obtaining a CWP/CWL. But such a conviction is not likely to be a disqualifier in most states for OC. That's largely because the legal basis for OC in a given state is often an absence of legislation prohibiting it--ergo, it is allowed.

    To build on your assumption stated above: I would think that having a domestic violence conviction, which disqualifies onefor concealed carry, would be grounds for a reason not to open carry.

    But it doesn't work that way.

    Over time, as OC becomes more prevalent, and as the states realize that having two different sets of regulations for OC as for CC, the qualifications and exclusions will almost certainly be standardized.

    Some will say that the way to standardize the DV/CC/OC situation will be to modify existing CC regulation to prospectively allow CWP/CWL issuance to citizens with DV convictions.

    Good luck to them with that approach....


    P.S. Other prominent differences in OC vs. CC disqualifications are age and convictions involving drinking or drug use. These affect a LOT of potential gun carriers.

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    Regular Member Broondog's Avatar
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    even though i am not eligible here in MO for a CCW permit i can still OC. i can still legally own all of the guns i want and even have an 03 FFL. but due to the wording of MO state law on CCW i cannot get one. go figure.


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    Regular Member Brimstone Baritone's Avatar
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    daddy4count wrote:
    Here in WA state, if you can legally own a handgun you can legally open carry it.
    This is the best answer in probably any no-permit-required OC state.

    Hey, Broondog, I remember reading something about a guy who pleaded 'nolo contendre' as part of a plea agreement and because of that can't get a CCP. Was that you? Did you ever check in to getting it expunged?
    There was a time that the pieces fit, but I watched them fall away, mildewed and smoldering, strangled by our coveting. I've done the math enough to know the dangers of our second guessing. Doomed to crumble, unless we grow and strengthen our communication. -Tool, "Schism"

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    Regular Member Broondog's Avatar
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    gutshot wrote:
    Broondog wrote:
    even though i am not eligible here in MO for a CCW permit i can still OC. i can still legally own all of the guns i want and even have an 03 FFL. but due to the wording of MO state law on CCW i cannot get one. go figure.

    Details, please. Why?
    long story short.....

    many moons ago, when i was young and dumb, i entered a guilty plea (per the advice of counsel) on a felony case (4 Class D's) in exchange for minimal jail time, probation and SIS. looking back at it over the years i may have been able to get acquitted of all charges in a jury trial (the cops made a couple of mistakes....possibly) but with each Class D carrying 5-20 on each it would have been a huge gamble.

    so i have a guilty plea on my record and MO state law says....

    http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5710000101.HTM

    2. A certificate of qualification for a concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to subsection 7 of this section shall be issued by the sheriff or his or her designee of the county or city in which the applicant resides, if the applicant:

    (2) Has not pled guilty to or entered a plea of nolo contendere or been convicted of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year under the laws of any state or of the United States.......blah blah blah....


    yet i can legally buy all of the guns i want and even have a Type 03 Curio & Relic FFL. the feds don't deem me a BG but the state of MO does.

    if i had the time and money to get this black mark cleared i might consider it. there was also, this last state session, two expungement Bills that were introduced in the MO House but neither of them got any traction.

    and then there is the whole "why should i pay for a license to exercise my 2A rights" thing, so i actually cool with the whole situation.

    did i mention that i was young and dumb?


    I'm the one who's gotta die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life the way I want to.
    Jimi Hendrix

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    Regular Member Broondog's Avatar
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    NavyLT

    you ever hear of a plea bargain?

    plead guilty, basically get time served, probation, Suspended Imposition of Sentence and no conviction record.

    unless someone does an FBI fingerprint background check on me all that shows is the original felony arrest. http://www.mshp.dps.missouri.gov/MSH...rimRecChk.html

    but there is still no felony conviction.


    I'm the one who's gotta die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life the way I want to.
    Jimi Hendrix

    NRA Benefactor Member & 03 FFL

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    I have the same problem in Missouri - after getting out of the police academy and not being a commissioned officer, I was at a tenants house, and my firearm locked/loaded and locked IN my glovebox - was considered a 'concealed' firearm even though I was not in the vehicle..

    Long story short - the lawyer said they would keep harrassing me and charging me with anything and everything until they actually got something on me because they thought I was a bad guy..

    Well finally when it came down to it, I 'pled guilty' to carrying a concealed weapon,, got Suspended Imposition of Sentence probation which I was told "THEN" it would never impact anything i ever wanted to do.

    Up until now - it hasnt caused any issues EXCEPT for CCW licenses..

    In Missouri SIS - since there is NO SENTENCE IMPOSED - it is NOT considered a Conviction by Missouri Statute..

    The only problem is - you cannot also expunge an SIS, because it's not a conviction either... The only way you can get around this is a governors pardon.. AND they dont do them for 'non convictions' - unless there are collateral consequences (which we have)..

    SIS in MO is your one 'slap on the hand' you get, thats it - you ever mess up again and they'll bring it up and hang you..

    It's all now about the wording of CCW legislation in MO now though 'pled guilty or no contest to a felony'.. EVEN though we legally are not felons - and we can buy , open carry or do whatever with whatever,, we cannot legally carry concealed with a MISSOURI CCW license..

    However (Florida Non-Resident) licenses are an option.

    Back to the story - YES - we can Open carry as long as it's not prohibited by local/county statute.

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