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Thread: Strange conversation with Oakland Deputy

  1. #1
    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    I normally OC, most of you know that... but I was in my pajamas and wanted to run up to 7-11 for some milk, so I was 'mexi-carrying'.

    Anyway, I guess I wasn't concealing very well when I got out of the car. There were four deputies there in two cars, getting coffee I guess...

    On my way out the officer came out and asked me to roll my window down. He then said I had to 'keep it covered up'.

    I then informed him that 'Open Carry is legal, though, I usually try to use a retention holster when I do it and that this time was in fact accidental.' This was while I was fishing out my CPL, since I was in the car.

    He said 'well, your not legal right now'

    'yes I am'

    'OC isn't legal in the car'

    'but I have my CPL'

    'but OC isn't legal in the car'

    'It is if I have my CPL'

    'well, yeah if you have your CPL... ... ... just keep it covered... it scares people when its 'half concealed'...'

    This last part was spoken while I was mumbling 'thanks' and rolling up my window to drive away...

    I didn't get their names, but I did get their car numbers if someone wants to do research.

    It was at about 9:45, Friday May 21st. Car 1910 and car 1912

  2. #2
    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    thanks.

    im trying to get the mental image of you in pj's mexi-carrying out of my head...



    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


  3. #3
    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    lil_freak_66 wrote:
    thanks.

    im trying to get the mental image of you in pj's mexi-carrying out of my head...


    Man I needed milk to make my hot-dog helper. It was supposed to be tuna helper but, same thing...:celebrate

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    Once again a complete and utter lack of training. ]

    This from the crowd who says 'ignorance of the law is not an excuse'.

  5. #5
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    Honestly, in my car, I either set it in my center console cupboard hole, or I set it on my passenger seat.

    -Richard-

  6. #6
    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
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    From my personal experience, people seem much more shocked to see a concealed firearm be accidentally shown than just seeing an openly carried firearm.

    Why this is, I have no idea.
    All opinions posted on opencarry.org are my own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of opencarry.org or Michigan Open Carry Inc.

  7. #7
    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    malignity wrote:
    From my personal experience, people seem much more shocked to see a concealed firearm be accidentally shown than just seeing an openly carried firearm.

    Why this is, I have no idea.
    I would guess that it's because when it's carried openly you are obviously not trying to hide it so you must not be doing anything wrong. When you're trying to hide it and they see it accidentally, you must be up to no good because you're being sneaky about it (concealing it).
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

  8. #8
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    malignity wrote:
    From my personal experience, people seem much more shocked to see a concealed firearm be accidentally shown than just seeing an openly carried firearm.

    Why this is, I have no idea.
    It is more of an "Out of sight, out of mind." kind of thing. Some people spend a great deal of effort and energy trying to maintain their level of denial just so they can keep their illusion of safety.

    Kinda like... if I...

    See no evil.

    Hear no evil.

    Speak no evil.

    The evil doesn't exist.... and I am safe from evil.

    It's all about ......... maintaining a denial of real life.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  9. #9
    Regular Member American Boy With a Gun's Avatar
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    Bikenut wrote:
    malignity wrote:
    From my personal experience, people seem much more shocked to see a concealed firearm be accidentally shown than just seeing an openly carried firearm.

    Why this is, I have no idea.
    It is more of an "Out of sight, out of mind." kind of thing. Some people spend a great deal of effort and energy trying to maintain their level of denial just so they can keep their illusion of safety.

    Kinda like... if I...

    See no evil.

    Hear no evil.


    Speak no evil.


    The evil doesn't exist.... and I am safe from evil.


    It's all about ......... maintaining a denial of real life.
    Aaaaaaaannnnnddddd then your robbed at gunpoint and possibly wounded or worse......i dont understand people sometimes

    Yea....big time in denial
    "If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." -- Samuel Adams, 1776

    An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject

  10. #10
    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    Bikenut wrote:
    malignity wrote:
    From my personal experience, people seem much more shocked to see a concealed firearm be accidentally shown than just seeing an openly carried firearm.

    Why this is, I have no idea.
    It is more of an "Out of sight, out of mind." kind of thing. Some people spend a great deal of effort and energy trying to maintain their level of denial just so they can keep their illusion of safety.

    Kinda like... if I...

    See no evil.

    Hear no evil.


    Speak no evil.


    The evil doesn't exist
    .... and I am safe from evil.

    It's all about ......... maintaining a denial of real life.
    ...yes I do :celebrate

    But yeah I don't and can't understand the thought process of 80 percent of America. My favorite response for cops asking 'if you have a CPL why aren't you concealing' is to say 'for the same reasons you aren't concealing'

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    Please tell . Did you wear Max Klinger Design ? MASH 4077

  12. #12
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Evil Creamsicle wrote:
    My favorite response for cops asking 'if you have a CPL why aren't you concealing' is to say 'for the same reasons you aren't concealing'
    Well said! And there is the crux of why many LE do not want people to open carry.... because the gun does send a message of strength... and many LE do not want ordinary people to have the same strength they have since that makes ordinary people harder to control.

    And governments do not want ordinary people to have guns because guns are symbols of authority and the purpose of a government is to be the ultimate authority in total control. And, he who has the guns has the control.

    And that is why there is a 2nd Amendment... so "we the people" will stay in control of the government!

    And those who fear the gun really do not fear the gun... they understand that they can not control the man with a gun and force him to put up with their crap.

    The symbol of strength and freedom from control that the gun represents is an insult to those who are nothing more than petty tyrants in their own small lives... tyrants who want everyone else to live the way they want everyone to live.

    When someone says: "I don't like guns." or "I'm afraid of guns." they are really saying:

    "I don't like that I can't control you." or "My lack of the ability to control you scares me."

    As has been said by others much wiser than I............

    "Gun control isn't about guns. Gun control is all about.... control."


    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    We need to complain to the Sheriff about this. We also need to let him know that the misleading "no guns beyond this point" sign at the place at 1200 Telegraph where you go to get finger printed and to register guns needs to come down. (The deputy on duty there at least seemed to be familiar with preemption, because she didn't say anything to me when I recently strolled in with the same rig she had on).

    Bouchard apparently went great lengths to educate his deputies, and it seems some were too inept to learn the information.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    Michigander wrote:
    We need to complain to the Sheriff about this. We also need to let him know that the misleading "no guns beyond this point" sign at the place at 1200 Telegraph where you go to get finger printed and to register guns needs to come down. (The deputy on duty there at least seemed to be familiar with preemption, because she didn't say anything to me when I recently strolled in with the same rig she had on).

    Bouchard apparently went great lengths to educate his deputies, and it seems some were too inept to learn the information.
    I had hoped you'd read this. I couldn't get a hold of you when it happened :celebrate

  15. #15
    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
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    Some people just 'know the law', and don't need anything to remind them of such... I know that where I work (in the psychiatric ward) that when new memo's are released and policies are updated, I am required to read and sign that i read the memo, and if my signature is on that memo, and I do now follow procedure, I am held accountable. I'm not sure to be honest that the entire problem lies within the officers that simply aren't educated, but also their superiors that are supposed to train them.
    All opinions posted on opencarry.org are my own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of opencarry.org or Michigan Open Carry Inc.

  16. #16
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    Well said, Bikenut.

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    I was honestly a little suprised, and disappointed to hear about this. OCSD has been informed of OC more than once. I guess they will just have to be sued before they get the point.

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    office888 wrote:
    Honestly, in my car, I either set it in my center console cupboard hole, or I set it on my passenger seat.

    -Richard-
    Not to harp on you personally, Richard - but I have had this conversation with a lot of people. When you're in your car, one of the most likely scenarios where you might need your firearm is in a road-rage situation. In order to escape the situation and avoid resorting to your firearm, it's likely you'll try some defensive/offensive driving tactics. Having your pistol 'floating' around in the car is now a horrible idea. When your defensive driving fails to escape the situation and you now need your pistol, it's in the back seat, under the seat or between the seat and the door somewhere.

    I'm a huge advocate of gun control - which to me means keeping my pistol some place where it won't depart without my help.

    JMHO.
    PPtk

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    Evil Creamsicle wrote:
    I normally OC, most of you know that... but I was in my pajamas and wanted to run up to 7-11 for some milk, so I was 'mexi-carrying'......
    So, based on your story, I think there is no disagreement on your behavior being legal. I have to ask though, are you too dang lazy to put on a pair of pants and a proper holster? Even without additional retention features, a good holster should provide enough retention to prevent a handgun from being jarred loose during an attack. What if you found yourself in a violent encounter? What if you went to ground in an attack? That gun popping out of your waistband and skittering across the floor would not help your situation. Straight up, I find your mindset to be lacking. Carrying “mexican” in pj’s is not a recipe for success. How about displaying a little more personal responsibility when exercising your RTKBA?

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    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    bsf wrote:
    Evil Creamsicle wrote:
    I normally OC, most of you know that... but I was in my pajamas and wanted to run up to 7-11 for some milk, so I was 'mexi-carrying'......
    So, based on your story, I think there is no disagreement on your behavior being legal. I have to ask though, are you too dang lazy to put on a pair of pants and a proper holster? Even without additional retention features, a good holster should provide enough retention to prevent a handgun from being jarred loose during an attack. What if you found yourself in a violent encounter? What if you went to ground in an attack? That gun popping out of your waistband and skittering across the floor would not help your situation. Straight up, I find your mindset to be lacking. Carrying “mexican” in pj’s is not a recipe for success. How about displaying a little more personal responsibility when exercising your RTKBA?
    If the cop told him he wasn't legal I would say there is a disagreement on his behavior being legal. Also telling him he had to keep it covered up was a lie and the leo knew it.
    If guns cause crime, all mine are defective- Ted Nugent

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    detroit_fan wrote:
    bsf wrote:
    Evil Creamsicle wrote:
    I normally OC, most of you know that... but I was in my pajamas and wanted to run up to 7-11 for some milk, so I was 'mexi-carrying'......
    So, based on your story, I think there is no disagreement on your behavior being legal. I have to ask though, are you too dang lazy to put on a pair of pants and a proper holster? Even without additional retention features, a good holster should provide enough retention to prevent a handgun from being jarred loose during an attack. What if you found yourself in a violent encounter? What if you went to ground in an attack? That gun popping out of your waistband and skittering across the floor would not help your situation. Straight up, I find your mindset to be lacking. Carrying “mexican” in pj’s is not a recipe for success. How about displaying a little more personal responsibility when exercising your RTKBA?
    If the cop told him he wasn't legal I would say there is a disagreement on his behavior being legal. Also telling him he had to keep it covered up was a lie and the leo knew it.
    No disagreement on this forum; that is what I meant.

  22. #22
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    bsf wrote:
    Evil Creamsicle wrote:
    I normally OC, most of you know that... but I was in my pajamas and wanted to run up to 7-11 for some milk, so I was 'mexi-carrying'......
    So, based on your story, I think there is no disagreement on your behavior being legal. I have to ask though, are you too dang lazy to put on a pair of pants and a proper holster? Even without additional retention features, a good holster should provide enough retention to prevent a handgun from being jarred loose during an attack. What if you found yourself in a violent encounter? What if you went to ground in an attack? That gun popping out of your waistband and skittering across the floor would not help your situation. Straight up, I find your mindset to be lacking. Carrying “mexican” in pj’s is not a recipe for success. How about displaying a little more personal responsibility when exercising your RTKBA?
    Good points, bsf.

    It's not very politically correct to bring them up. But it does some good to raise the issue of sloppy, careless, or undisciplined carrying.

  23. #23
    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
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    really? There's absolutely nothing wrong with mexicarrying if done properly. A trick I learned from a few retired LEOs is to wrap a few large rubber bands around the top and bottom of the grip and put the waistband betwen them. I carried this way for the entire first year I had my CPL. If done properly, it will not go anywhere, even if you fall to the ground (I slipped on the ice with it one winter and didn't lose mine, at least). The downside to this and ultimately why I use holsters now is the slow draw and the very uncomfortable feeling of having a bare gun against my skin. It causes chaffing, pinches your skin, gets sweaty, etc.
    All opinions posted on opencarry.org are my own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of opencarry.org or Michigan Open Carry Inc.

  24. #24
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    malignity wrote:
    really? There's absolutely nothing wrong with mexicarrying if done properly. A trick I learned from a few retired LEOs is to wrap a few large rubber bands around the top and bottom of the grip and put the waistband betwen them. I carried this way for the entire first year I had my CPL. If done properly, it will not go anywhere, even if you fall to the ground (I slipped on the ice with it one winter and didn't lose mine, at least). The downside to this and ultimately why I use holsters now is the slow draw and the very uncomfortable feeling of having a bare gun against my skin. It causes chaffing, pinches your skin, gets sweaty, etc.
    Rubber bands?. . . Chafing?. . . Pinching?. . . Sweaty?. . . Unsecure? . . . Uncomfortability? . . . Slow drawing?

    Wow, I can see why you are abigproponent...

    Sorry, malignity, sounds kinda sloppy, careless or undisciplined carryto me.More like gangsta carry.

    So what made you convert/upgrade to a holster after a year, mal?

  25. #25
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    malignity wrote:
    really? There's absolutely nothing wrong with mexicarrying if done properly. A trick I learned from a few retired LEOs is to wrap a few large rubber bands around the top and bottom of the grip and put the waistband betwen them. I carried this way for the entire first year I had my CPL. If done properly, it will not go anywhere, even if you fall to the ground (I slipped on the ice with it one winter and didn't lose mine, at least). The downside to this and ultimately why I use holsters now is the slow draw and the very uncomfortable feeling of having a bare gun against my skin. It causes chaffing, pinches your skin, gets sweaty, etc.
    Dude..... re-read what you just wrote!

    You say there's "absolutely nothing wrong". Then at the end of your post you list some things that's wrong with it.

    W T F

    Think, type, think, send.

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