Target Encounter, Everett, Washington

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LOL, that would be battery in some states!

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sounds like he just made an a** out of himself.

i would have done something about him trying to grab the weapon,another member on here kicked a guy in the face at a walmart i believe,for doing that.

+1 on remaining calm,professional and courteous!

+1 for the couple telling him that he was the problem too.

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Big Boy wrote:

Plankton wrote:

Big Boy wrote:

I completely agree, think you handled yourself very well, and don't think you did anything wrong.

Just for me personally, I probably would have sought out management as well, with him being so aggressive. When he went for the gun grab I would have immediately been on the phone with 911.

I have a voice recorder on my phone for encounters with LEO, I probably wouldn't have though to use it in this situation. That is a good idea.

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I have my voice recorder on ALL OF THE TIME, EVERY TIME I AM ARMED.

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That'd be a hell of a lot of space used up on mine. Not to mention battery. I could MAYBE see doing this if I had a committed voice recorder, but mine is built into my iPhone.

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I have a separate digital recorder; RCA, $35 at walmart, uses 2 AAA batteries.

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I agree that you exhibited extraordinary patience and self-restraint. In this case, I think inflicting physical pain on your opponent might have been counterproductive--it would only reinforce his irrational fear of gun carriers as aggressive thugs. He would have attempted to file charges, possibly dragging you into a long investiagation/legal fight.

Now that everything has calmed down, I recommend that you turn the tables:

1. Report this incident to the police as an attempted assault on you (exact type may depend on your state laws), so that ...
2. the security camera tapes from the Target store can be requested as evidence. You'd have to act soon on this--who knows how long camera tapes are saved before they're over-written.

Hopefully, cameras captured the entire incident (minus audio, of course). This firmly establishes you as the "good guy" (attempts to retreat, refusal to escalate) anddocuments the aggressive/unbalanced behavior of the other guy.

At the very least, camera(s) should have captured both of you entering and leaving. This will lend creedence to your report and may permitpolice to IDthe aggressor, allowing further investigation and possibly charges to be filed. Even if no charges get filed, there'd be a record of a complaint against him that would follow him around.

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+1 to what he said.

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Every situation is different and its easy for others to say what you could have or should have done. You were there, you were the one being accosted, you handled the situation very well. The guy probablyescaped from some lunatic assylum and needs to be re-admitted immediatley before he stumbles into a zoo somewhere and starts poking the lions in the ribs or pulling their tails.


Man: "Hay look everyone, this lions got big teeth."


Unfortunately we havee'm over here as well.

What a whacker!

Haz.

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I'm pretty sure I would have called the police in your situation, and sadly, I probably wouldn't have handled it that calmly when he grabbed my gun.

Shouting "he has a gun" or "that guy has a gun" is the same, if not worse than shouting fire in a crowded theater. = at least Disorderly Conduct/Disturbing the Peace.

Grabbing your gun = Aggravated Assault/Robbery, and even Armed Robbery in my opinion...

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I carry a Muvi Micro + Voice Recorder when I'm out with a firearm. The Muvi can get about 3 hours of video on a 4GB card. Charge lasts about that long. Has sound activation or one button rec/stop.

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I think the idiot was trying to commit suicide. He sure wasn't afraid because you had a gun. It seems like he was trying to get you to shoot him.

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Way to stay cool. Personally, I would have put a boot in his chest at the grab. Creates distance, doesn't really hurt, but shows you can handle yourself. You can make it hurt if you have to.

I'm not criticizing you. I'm also able to do so with ease. Not everyone is.

It worked, everybody went home. That means you did it right.

"I think you have a small dick."

1) "Better to have a small one, than BE a big one."
2) "Care to test the theory? (wink)" (twice as effective in same-sex situations)
3) "I'm not sure what is more disturbing, your interest in my penis, or your association of weapons with sex."

I'll stop there.... But #2 is my favorite, especially when it's another guy. HA!

The really bold ones, use 3, they'll usually give you a chance to use 2 in the very next sentence. A woman that bold is too offended, and a guy will just call you a homo. It gets rid of them either way... You're dealing with a very simple, hateful mind. A 'normal' person. It isn't hard to figure out how to make them go away.

Being passive was 'civilized' but it just emboldened your assailant. Throw a little bit back at them, especially if you can do it with humor and a smile, and their game is all over. May have avoided all the escalation and the grab.

If #2 doesn't work, make sure you refer to your assailant as 'sweetie pie' or 'sugar tush.'

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I look at stories like these with extreme skepticism. It's amazing that you have the ability to recall (even to the best of your knowledge) exactly 39 lines of dialog between not only yourself, but two other people!

I call B.S. But that's just me.

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Ironbar wrote:

I look at stories like these with extreme skepticism. It's amazing that you have the ability to recall (even to the best of your knowledge) exactly 39 lines of dialog between not only yourself, but two other people!

I call B.S. But that's just me.

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Maybe he has the whole thing on a voice recorder and typed it out from that. Fact is, none of us were there.

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acmariner99 wrote:

Man: Hey, what would you do if I did this (tries to grab the grip)
Me: (put a firm grip on the handle, yanks away and steps back and exclaim loud enough to bring to attention that a serious situation is developing): "Hey get your hand off my gun"

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It is hard to say what I would do, I would not have drawn my firearm. After that I would have pulled out my Pepper spray told him make another move and I will spray you.

"Don't Spray me Bro"

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Ironbar wrote:

I look at stories like these with extreme skepticism. It's amazing that you have the ability to recall (even to the best of your knowledge) exactly 39 lines of dialog between not only yourself, but two other people!

I call B.S. But that's just me.

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I met the young man at a breakfast just after this event. I would tend to believe him.

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Taken as reported, if his hand got close enough to the gun, I would have applied a technique to his thumb, not gently, and called the police immediately.

I hope.

Scary situation.

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In Louisiana an attempt to remove a lawfully carried firearm is generally treated as attempted murder--especially if the carrier is a police officer. But the same legal thought still applies--the "snatcher" has no lawful purpose for trying to disarm you.

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4sooth wrote:

In Louisiana an attempt to remove a lawfully carried firearm is generally treated as attempted murder--especially if the carrier is a police officer. But the same legal thought still applies--the "snatcher" has no lawful purpose for trying to disarm you.

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Gogo, correct me if I am wrong, since you are more knowledgeable about these things, but here in Washington, isn't this a felony of some kind? Seems to me it is, but I don't know for sure.

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SFCRetired wrote:

Ruby wrote:

Ironbar wrote:

I look at stories like these with extreme skepticism. It's amazing that you have the ability to recall (even to the best of your knowledge) exactly 39 lines of dialog between not only yourself, but two other people!

I call B.S. But that's just me.

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Maybe he has the whole thing on a voice recorder and typed it out from that. Fact is, none of us were there.

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Considering that we all constantly preach having a voice recorder on us when we are carrying, that is what I would vote for. I am very loathe to call a man or woman a liar when I don't know all the little details.

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I didn't call him a liar, I said I call B.S. There's a difference. My calling B.S. is saying that I don't believe the OP. And if he had typed it out from a recording then he would have said so. In fact, the OP stated that the whole transcript was, "to the best of my knowledge." That's pretty darned detailed "knowledge."

You'd think that everyone on this forum would have seen enough bogus stories to view every new one with a tinge of skepticism. And yet every one of you still seems perfectly willing to believe (at least initially), any self-defense story that pops up, regardless of the circumstances, or how fantastic it may be. In fact I would go so far to say that you desperatly WANT to believe every story. Why? Is it so you can find some measure of justification or solacefor carryinga weapon?I don't need that, I just carry.

The mods should change the name of this forum to "Questionably True Tales of Self-Defense"

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Ironbar wrote:

SFCRetired wrote:

Ruby wrote:

Ironbar wrote:

I look at stories like these with extreme skepticism. It's amazing that you have the ability to recall (even to the best of your knowledge) exactly 39 lines of dialog between not only yourself, but two other people!

I call B.S. But that's just me.

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Maybe he has the whole thing on a voice recorder and typed it out from that. Fact is, none of us were there.

Click to expand...

Considering that we all constantly preach having a voice recorder on us when we are carrying, that is what I would vote for. I am very loathe to call a man or woman a liar when I don't know all the little details.

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I didn't call him a liar, I said I call B.S. There's a difference. My calling B.S. is saying that I don't believe the OP. And if he had typed it out from a recording then he would have said so. In fact, the OP stated that the whole transcript was, "to the best of my knowledge." That's pretty darned detailed "knowledge."

You'd think that everyone on this forum would have seen enough bogus stories to view every new one with a tinge of skepticism. And yet every one of you still seems perfectly willing to believe (at least initially), any self-defense story that pops up, regardless of the circumstances, or how fantastic it may be. In fact I would go so far to say that you desperatly WANT to believe every story. Why? Is it so you can find some measure of justification or solacefor carryinga weapon?I don't need that, I just carry.

The mods should change the name of this forum to "Questionably True Tales of Self-Defense"

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Ooooooh Ooooooooh Oooooooh! Got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning, did we? Or maybe over the foot. Just joshing you. He did not say it was verbatim what was said. It was to the best of his knowledge, what he recalled was said. On the other hand, a little bit of healty skepticism from time to time is a good thing too. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. There's really no way to prove it or disprove it. To each their own beliefs. Gotta remenber that 1st amendment too.