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Thread: oc incident at walmart in eureka on may 20, 2010

  1. #1
    Regular Member usmcbess's Avatar
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    Me and my friend Steev went shopping for a few things the othernight at about1:30 a.m. at eureka walmart. I have oc'ed there multiple times without incident. The only difference between this trip and the last few was that rather than being in and out we took some time to browse around. after gathering a few item we thouhgt that we would try and find some toys for steev's kids and went back to the toy section. Everything was just hunky-doory steev was browsing and I was playing with the new bop-it when to my front a eureka police officer approached me. The officer asked "what have you got there?" and gestured to my gun. I responded "My pistol.". Then the cop asked "Do you have an I.D.?". To which I replied "Am I being detained?". "No" was his response. I then told him if I was not beening detained that I didnt wish to provide I.D.. At which point two other officers approached from the rear and one witha very bad attitude and foul mouth raised his voice to say something along the lines of "Don't even start with that bulls**t produce you I.D.!". I tried to stay calm as I turned around to face him and said"This officer just told me that I am not being detained , so I dont have to produce and I.D.". He then made a threat to unlawfully detain me if I did'nt comply. Now once again it was about 1:30 a.m. and I didnt fell like getting drug out back and getting the sense kicked out of me so I chickened out and produced. They ran my name and I began explaining to them that they had no lwaful means to hinder me in my shopping and that I had done nothing wrong. They used the ooohh so common "we need to make sure your not a felon" excuse.As my name cleaared the rude officer gestured to ny pistol and asked what kind if holster I had, to which I responded "A cheap-o". He then in a very disrespectful and unproffessional statement told me " I could walk up behind you and grab that gun and blow your f***in brains out".

    A they handed my liscense back I told the officer that we lived in America and that I dont have to produce I.D. upon demand. To which he replied "well vote democrat!" , and walked away with the 3rd officer.

    The first cop stood around and chatted with me and gave me the regulare lecture. So I took it upon myself to inform himthat that shouldnt have happened. That the constitution garuantee's the right to be secure in my papers against unreasonable searches and seizures.

    The whole thing made me sick!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRokGhyXtbQ

  2. #2
    Regular Member zekester's Avatar
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    Get a retention holster and follow that with a recording device.

    Z
    GOD gave me rights!!!....The Constitutuion just confirms it!!

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    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    Consider making a complaint to EPD for the handling by Ofc. Vaughn, usmcbess.

    Else, he will just do it again, maybe to you.

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    Maybe you should have told the foul mouthed leo something along this line, yea and you could wind up flat of your back with the barrel pointed between your eyes if you tried something like that. He wouldn't know for sure if you knew that move or not unless you showed him.

    Then a lot of LEO wonder why more people don't give them any respect. The arrogant and foul mouthed oneis a classic example of why not. One POS taints a lot of good ones.

  5. #5
    McX
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    they should offer on this forum a walking weenie that we can issue when we see law abiding citizens be harrassed by law enforcement stories. but for now i'll go with this;

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    An LEO threatened to "blow your f'ing brains out". Call the AG's office.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Richieg150's Avatar
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    File a FORMAL complaint against the officers....Thats the only way you are going to get them to change.....They must be held accountable for their actions......
    Psalm 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:
    Psalm 144:2 My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me. Pro 14:15 The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.

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    usmcbess wrote:
    SNIP...so I chickened out and produced [an identity document.]...
    That isn't chickening out. That is common sense. Why risk being searched and having your whole wallet seized when the cop is making it clear that compliance may be compelled?

    Regardless of the first cop's declaration that you were not being detained, the second cop's loud comment and demand for ID definitely initiated adetention.

    From US vs Mendenhall:

    We conclude that a person has been "seized" within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment only if, in view of all of the circumstances surrounding the incident, a reasonable person would have believed that he was not free to leave. Examples of circumstances that might indicate a seizure, even where the person did not attempt to leave, would be the threatening presence of several officers, the display of a weapon by an officer, some physical touching of the person of the citizen, or the use of language or tone of voice indicating that compliance with the officer's request might be compelled. (emphasis added by Citizen)

    The cop comment that they have to ensure you are not a felon is hogwash. He needs reasonable suspicion or probable cause to believe you are a felon. See Terry v Ohio.

    My suggestions:

    1. Decide whether to sue or make a hard-hitting formal complaint. If you want to sue, find an attorney.

    2. Double-check the law to ensure you were fully legal. Nothing worse than finding out you were somehow illegal, the cops missed it, but the prosecutor sees it.

    3. If you want to make a formal complaint, first send a Freedom of Information Act request for the public safety recordings: 911 call, dispatch traffic to cops, radio traffic from cops back and any in-car text messages on their little on-board computers. The latter can be really entertaining. Cops like that may very well have made some very embarrassing comments on the text messages. Has happened.

    4. If the FOIA recordings allege no crime or otherwise show nothing was reported that would givereasonable suspicion for a detention, write the formal complaint citing as much statutory and case law as you can find that applies to your situation. The main idea is at a minimumto let the cops know that you know. And, that you have started a paper trail and history.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  9. #9
    Regular Member usmcbess's Avatar
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    I'm just going to stop carrying I.D. on me when i'm not driving.

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    usmcbess wrote:
    I'm just going to stop carrying I.D. on me when i'm not driving.
    You realize then you are just waiting to see what new form of 4th Amendment (search and seizure) violation the cop perpetrates. And 5th Amendment. (ID demand.)

    Also, it is a sure bet this cop didn't wake up that morning and say to himself, "For the first time in my career I am going to violate someone's 4th Amendment rights."

    And, his partner didn't seem inclined to step in and stop him, "Sam, thanks for coming. She hasn't said anything yet to justify an ID demand." At the very least the first cop has some idea or agreement that got in the way of him protecting your rights from the other cop.

    For your own benefit, and those of every other honest citizen "ensnared by ambiguous circumstances" and this cop, I urge you to reconsider at least filing a formal written complaint. If you need help figuring out the law angles, I'm sure there is a member familiar with Missouri law who would be willing to help.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  11. #11
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    Maybe buzz 911 and embarass the hell out of 3 cops over a definite recording quoting names and badge numbers and demand the presence of even more officers, by the time sometime that hits the airwaves, maybe a desk supervisor will take the initiative to leash up his little pack of hounds.

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    Reminds me of the St George cop.

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    I got stopped at walmart in the sporting goods while buying ammo (shotgun shells) as I was going to go target practice/shoot clays. Here is the official response from walmart corporate.


    (The below case of being asked to leave was from walmart-Rolla. I also believe that Owensville walmart has a no weapon sign up now.)

    Thank you for your message.

    Dear Paul,

    There is no policy against customers carrying their handgun in our stores as long as he/she is legally permitted by their state to carry the handgun.

    As a private property owner, Walmart has the authority to ask customers to remove their handgun or leave the store on a case-by-case basis if customers or Walmart associates express concerns about the handgun.

    Thanks,
    Wal-Mart Shared Services



    For further correspondence regarding this issue, please reply to this email.


    ----Your Original Comments Were----

    Question: Is it against Wal-Mart policy to not allow open or conceal carry a firearm? I was told to leave and not bring a gun back inside a Wal-Mart Store here, and was told it is corporate policy. I told them they had no signs on their doors, and they said they were waiting to put them up, and they would be up soon. A month has gone by, and no signs are up.Basically: Can I peaceably open carry my pistol inside walmart? Can I peaceably conceal carry my pistol inside walmart?Please contact me by email and/or phone with your official policy.(the store in question is Rolla Missouri)
    This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
    intended solely for the individual or entity to whom they are
    addressed. If you have received this email in error destroy it
    immediately.

    *** Walmart
    Confidential ***
    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol
    Active OC/CC in Phelps county Area. (Rolla, St. James)

  14. #14
    Regular Member zekester's Avatar
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    This is BS......on many occasions, Walmart has says that thye will follow the State and Local laws....now they leave it up to an associate or a customer???!!!!

    Time for a writing campaign!!!!

    Z


    Walmart
    Policy is to follow the law of the state the store located.
    Customer Service1-800-Wal-Mart
    (1-800-925-6278) Questions regarding a Wal-Mart Store issue
    702 SW 8th Street
    Wal-Mart Stores, Inc.
    Bentonville, Arkansas 72716-8611


    Email contact link:
    http://walmartstores.com/contactus/feedback.aspx

    GOD gave me rights!!!....The Constitutuion just confirms it!!

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    They used the ooohh so common "we need to make sure your not a felon" excuse.
    That is exactly why I feel that there should be no prohibitions on possessing weapons. If a person is not fit to possess a firearm then that person should be in jail. Every person walking freely can only be assumed to be in lawful possession of any arms that happen to be on their person.

    There is no such thing as unlicensed open carry so long as there is a list of conditions that makes it unlawful to be in possession of a weapon.

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    IA_farmboy wrote:
    They used the ooohh so common "we need to make sure your not a felon" excuse.
    That is exactly why I feel that there should be no prohibitions on possessing weapons. If a person is not fit to possess a firearm then that person should be in jail. Every person walking freely can only be assumed to be in lawful possession of any arms that happen to be on their person.

    There is no such thing as unlicensed open carry so long as there is a list of conditions that makes it unlawful to be in possession of a weapon.
    +1

    Everyone has a right to self defense.
    Don't confuse me with the facts, I have my emotions!

    I guess that's the difference between no crime and "stopping" a crime in progress. I prefer no crime.

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