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Thread: 'OC friendly' vs. 'OC indifferent'

  1. #1
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    (I started to post this as a reply in the 'Are there ANY gun friendly restaurants in Northern Virginia?' <http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/44699.html>, but I didn't want to hijack the OP's excellent intent!)

    Is there a difference between an establishment - in this case a restaurant - being 'OC friendly' and 'OC indifferent'? I know I'd rather send our business towards 2A-supportive business owners, but I spend most of my OC time mainstreaming in whatever Virginia community and place of business/service I happen to be in (car dealerships/repair shops, restaurants, movie theaters, grocery stores, sports shops, banks, shoe stores...) and my S&W M&P 9mm in a Serpa CQC or my wife's Sig P239 in a black leather Galco has yet to cause a problem.

    For example, my wife and I have OC'd at restaurants all over NOVA and have never had any issues, other than a few curious looks from kids or an occasional :shock: from folks that are visitors or recent transplants from other states/countries. If anything, we observe an increase in the friendliness/politeness factor.

    We don't call ahead to request approval or for an understanding of their policy regarding firearms - for us OC and safety awareness has become more a way of life than an experiment: we simply show up at a restaurant expecting good food and service. People either do not notice or if they do they simply don't care. I am tall and could probably be mistaken for a LEO if dressed in khaki's, dark green/black 5.1.1 polos and boots, but my beautiful wife is petite and typically followed by three very cute little boys - still never an issue.

    We have OC'd in several restaurants in Arlington (La Madeline, PF Changs...), Tyson's (Olive Garden, Legal Seafoods...), Annandale (Fuddruckers, Silverado...), Chantilly (Cici's, Chipotle, Famous Dave's BBQ, Texas Roadhouse...), Manassas (Lone Star, UNOs, Red Lobster...) and ALL over the mostly southwestern region between Charlottesville, Winchester, Richmond and Gainsville. Maybe these businesses have anti-gun policies, but we were not informed either by employees or signage. If so, we would politely and immediately leave, understandably taking our business elsewhere.

    I have had several situations where someone has noticed and asked questions about state law regarding firearms, about our gear, or about the 2A, but never in a hostile way. Well, there was the one older couple I was standing behind at a Starbucks late last year. I could tell by the pursed lips and angry eyebrows that I had done something, like cut in front of them in line (I hadn't). I didn't realize the issue until I saw them glance down, glance back up and shake their heads, then walk out and climb back into their Maryland-tagged Prius...

    I have had too many good experiences to list here, and it could just be our unique situation, but other than the noticeable exceptions I have read about on OCDO, I think the general public just may be starting to accept the 2nd Amendment and lack of Virginia legal prohibition. "Maybe, <the Constitution> ... perhaps... means a little bit more!"

    This doesn't mean that the good fight is over - a right not freely exercised is a right freely surrendered - but it may mean that OCDO and VCDL have led a successful first contact with the anti-gun culture, and I will continue to support both until the 2A becomes our non-restrictive OC and CC permit!

    Now, to church, and then to OC at Glory Days in Culpeper!


  2. #2
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    We met at a dinner in Warrenton's Red, Hot, and Blue a few months ago and I can easily see where someone might mistake you for an off duty LEO or agent of some kind. In my opinion, you and your wife conducted yourselves completely above reproach so I would be surprised at any negative encounters you might have, excepting those from the near-lunitic fringe of the anti types.

    I have had a few Marylanders gawk at me; two in an SUV at a gas station around two years ago. But then again, I don't expect much from Marylanders in the form of honoring the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

    I have only had one negative experience and that one happened last year at the McDonald's in Haymarket one Saturday morning. And the mayor was there to hear and see it, though see wasn't really aware of what the fuss was all about. She didn't seem to be put off when standing next to my strong side and seeing my little friend (she knows me and has seen me armed once before). The offending party was not an LEO, though he claimed to be a retired LEO. If this was true, he is certainly a poor example of one. I had absolutely zero respect for LEO's, retired or active, who do not fully and completely act in concert with their oath.. which includes the Constitution.

    I suspect that one of the reasons we don't seem to run into problems with the public when OC'ing here in our state is the fact that for native Virginians, owning and carrying firearms is part of our culture and heritage. Newcomers to our state seem to put aside their feelings about this for the most part (at least openly) and go with the flow. Virginia has a reputation of gun-leniency and gun-friendliness and transplants appear to be learning this. At least that's my hope and perception. Not all, mind you, but I would bet many fall into that order. They see other Virginians going about their business, paying little or no mind to an armed citizen, so they chose rather than being an exception, to just keep their mouths shut and their opinions to themselves and so as the rest do.

    So to your "OC friendly vs OC indifferent", I would say both with perhaps the slant in the OC different column.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  3. #3
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    Dixie Bones on Occoquan Road at Jefferson Davis Highway in Woodbridge. Great food, great service, patriotic, gun-owner friendly!

  4. #4
    Regular Member ChinChin's Avatar
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    Is there a difference between an establishment - in this case a restaurant - being 'OC friendly' and 'OC indifferent'?

    I feel there is. Take Starbucks as a prime recent example. Their senior most management are not for gun owner rights nor gun control laws. In not so many words. . .they've said they don't give two flying "F's" if you carry or don't carry; just so long as you buy their products and follow what the state law says. That is textbook indifference. They don't care if you carry inside, and won't fight to get your business if the state outlaws carry.

    Then there are restaurants like a mom and pop wing place someplace in southern VA which name escapes but has been mentioned in the forum in the past. They not only welcome OC inside their store. . .but will offer you a discount on dining if you OC or if you are a member of the VCDL and have your membership with you.

    Indifference viewpoints makes business the sheep of the business world. They don't see that having patrons who lawfully carry inside their establishment makes it that much safer. If the local riff raff and barrio rats know that the business lets customers carry; they're not going to try and knock it over as they want little to no resistance. If its a case of CC along with OC then it also becomes a psychological deterrent as well as they know 6 out of 10 people are carrying; but can't tell who is and who isn't.

    OC friendly business know this fact; and while they may be friendly to "the cause" themselves; I'm sure they're not oblivious to the fact that it also equates to free security for them as well!
    The problem with the internet is nobody can really tell when you’re serious and when you’re being sarcastic. –Abraham Lincoln

  5. #5
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Regular_Joe wrote:
    We have OC'd in several restaurants in Arlington (La Madeline, PF Changs...), Tyson's (Olive Garden, Legal Seafoods...), Annandale (Fuddruckers, Silverado...), Chantilly (Cici's, Chipotle, Famous Dave's BBQ, Texas Roadhouse...), Manassas (Lone Star, UNOs, Red Lobster...) and ALL over the mostly southwestern region between Charlottesville, Winchester, Richmond and Gainsville. Maybe these businesses have anti-gun policies, but we were not informed either by employees or signage. If so, we would politely and immediately leave, understandably taking our business elsewhere.
    You ahve had good luck. I too rarely have a problem and don't call ahead and have short hair, etc etc etc. BUT.. from your list above:

    Fuddruckers is now anti, Siverado is part of GAR and they aare anti at all stores (and are supposed to ask you to leave).. Logans (Texas Roadhouse? if its the same place) will now ask you to leave too. Red Lobsters are hit/miss but I dont eat seafood so I never go there anyway

    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
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    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

  6. #6
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Don't see any measurable distinction between in OC friendly and OC indifference.

    Either one is acceptance of the right to personal defense and not anti-freedom.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  7. #7
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    Ed have you ever had an issue at a Logan's? If so did you take it up with their corporate office? Last year when Tennessee changed its law to allow for licensed carry in places serving alcohol Logan's was one of the chains that announced from the corporate office that they would not be posting "no guns" signs and would welcome Tennesseeans carrying or not.

    I've never heard a thing about Texas Roadhouse either and have never had an issue.

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    I suppose the answer is, "that depends on whether, if there were a difference, it would matter".

    Most of the time the answer is "no".

  9. #9
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    No, however I think there is a difference between that, and "pro-OC" places that openly welcome OCers. Places like Champps in Reston, Glory Days in Centreville, and especially Hard Times Cafe in Manassas.

  10. #10
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    I open carried at a local restaurant where they brought me a free tasty non-alcoholic drink when I was OC'ing. Then again maybe the waiter just thought I was cute.

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