Talk to the cops?

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25sierraman wrote:

I like what citizen said. Seems to make the most sense.

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Credit belongs to Massad Ayoob. I'm probably missing something he recommends, though.

Ayoobruns the Lethal Force Institute in New Hampshire. Does training classes around the country.

Wrote the first book on armed self-defense geared specifically to the citizen: In the Gravest Extreme. Available on-line and in many gun stores.

Also has a video out--he taped a portion of one of his classes. Very informative. Judicious Use of Deadly Force. Geared to the armed citizen.

His columns appear in one or two of the big gun magazines. He usually writes about defensive situations. My favorite is his column in Combat Handguns. Each issue he takes up some legal point about defensive shooting. It is literally the only reason I buy the magazine--to read his column.

He also has a column in Backwoods Home Companion or similar named magazine. Many of his columns for that magazine are available at their website.

Former cop, regular expert witness in defensive shooting cases. The guy knows his stuff. One caution I might add, though, is that he seems to often put across his information with a deliberately emotional bent. Not much. Just enough to notice. Personally, I don't care for it. But, I just read around it, looking for the useful information.

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SFCRetired wrote:

All I know is what not one, but two criminal defense attorneys told me, "Give the police your name and address, then shut up! The only other thing that should come out of your mouth while you are in custody is a request for your attorney."

Both of them said that the DA, not the police, will do his/her best to twist anything you say to the police. I believe that, but I also believe that there are police officers who will put their own spin on anything you say to them concerning a particular event.

Bottom line: Name and address plus a request for a lawyer.

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Well, if they think you are guilty of a crime, I am sure that is kind of the way it is.

But, more precisely, the problem is that their interest is not in protecting your right not to incriminate yourself. It is in obtaining arrests and convictions.

Our justice system is an adversarial system. Why would one do anything to help a potential adversary?

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Citizen wrote:

Makes sense. Even my reply left out telling the cops my name and address, something I would definitely include.

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Since Ohio is a "must notify" state, that's taken care of for you when you show him your CHL, which I'm sure he'll demand from you.

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Say nothing more than is required by law (usually, name and address).

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This is how I voted, but it's hard to say what would happen with adrenaline pumping and possibly shock of what just happened.

In addition to I need an ambulance, and an officer, I would add I want that person arrested for assault.

I'm not sure about needing to give an address. I'm pretty sure in LA, we just have to identify ourselves but not sure during an investigation.

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Glock34 wrote:

Right after I get off the phone with the 911 dispatcher, I would call a lawyer,,,before the cops show up, I would be lawyered up.

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Better have one lined up, and on retainer. IF you can get a hold an attorney with in the 5 minutes it would take before all he11 brakes loose and the entire precinct shows up, you wont have much of a conversation with that person.

As for me, I would say as little as necessary. As the police's job is to gather evidence to be used against you.

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eye95 wrote:

SFCRetired wrote:

All I know is what not one, but two criminal defense attorneys told me, "Give the police your name and address, then shut up! The only other thing that should come out of your mouth while you are in custody is a request for your attorney."

Both of them said that the DA, not the police, will do his/her best to twist anything you say to the police. I believe that, but I also believe that there are police officers who will put their own spin on anything you say to them concerning a particular event.

Bottom line: Name and address plus a request for a lawyer.

Click to expand...

Well, if they think you are guilty of a crime, I am sure that is kind of the way it is.

But, more precisely, the problem is that their interest is not in protecting your right not to incriminate yourself. It is in obtaining arrests and convictions.

Our justice system is an adversarial system. Why would one do anything to help a potential adversary?

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As stated before, the Police's job is to gather evidence to be used against you. It is NOT the police's job to protect YOUR rights. SCOTUS has made that perfectly clear.

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bigdaddy1 wrote:

eye95 wrote:

SFCRetired wrote:

All I know is what not one, but two criminal defense attorneys told me, "Give the police your name and address, then shut up! The only other thing that should come out of your mouth while you are in custody is a request for your attorney."

Both of them said that the DA, not the police, will do his/her best to twist anything you say to the police. I believe that, but I also believe that there are police officers who will put their own spin on anything you say to them concerning a particular event.

Bottom line: Name and address plus a request for a lawyer.

Click to expand...

Well, if they think you are guilty of a crime, I am sure that is kind of the way it is.

But, more precisely, the problem is that their interest is not in protecting your right not to incriminate yourself. It is in obtaining arrests and convictions.

Our justice system is an adversarial system. Why would one do anything to help a potential adversary?

Click to expand...

As stated before, the Police's job is to gather evidence to be used against you. It is NOT the police's job to protect YOUR rights. SCOTUS has made that perfectly clear.

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The point of my post was to illustrate that the police won't be looking out for your rights against self-incrimination while not, at the same time, implying that they are going after everyone, gathering evidence against them all, trying to send them all to jail.

We may be trying to make the same point. I just think the way I said it more narrowly and correctly portrays what the police are doing.

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eye95 wrote:

bigdaddy1 wrote:

eye95 wrote:

SFCRetired wrote:

All I know is what not one, but two criminal defense attorneys told me, "Give the police your name and address, then shut up! The only other thing that should come out of your mouth while you are in custody is a request for your attorney."

Both of them said that the DA, not the police, will do his/her best to twist anything you say to the police. I believe that, but I also believe that there are police officers who will put their own spin on anything you say to them concerning a particular event.

Bottom line: Name and address plus a request for a lawyer.

Click to expand...

Well, if they think you are guilty of a crime, I am sure that is kind of the way it is.

But, more precisely, the problem is that their interest is not in protecting your right not to incriminate yourself. It is in obtaining arrests and convictions.

Our justice system is an adversarial system. Why would one do anything to help a potential adversary?

Click to expand...

As stated before, the Police's job is to gather evidence to be used against you. It is NOT the police's job to protect YOUR rights. SCOTUS has made that perfectly clear.

Click to expand...

The point of my post was to illustrate that the police won't be looking out for your rights against self-incrimination while not, at the same time, implying that they are going after everyone, gathering evidence against them all, trying to send them all to jail.

We may be trying to make the same point. I just think the way I said it more narrowly and correctly portrays what the police are doing.

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We must remember that LEO are an arm of the prosecutors and do not have your best interest in mind. They close off the scene and gather the evidence for the prosecutor not you or anyone else. How many news reports have we heard about home defendors being prosecuted?

I am in the same camp as Citizen. Fear for my life and then STFU. Also be the one to call 911 because I have personally seen how that prejudices the police.

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mcdonalk wrote:

If I'm a witness, and I'm stopped for questioning, it will be more like this:

"Can you tell me what you saw?"
- I'm still a little shook up, officer. I want to help, but I need to calm down and talk to my lawyer first. Can I get your card or some other way to get in touch with you? Am I free to leave?

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Why would you need a lawyer if you were only a witness?

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Make the call yourself.
Say something like...
"Officer I was involved in a shooting. Please send Officers and an Ambulance. Give your name & location."
Don't go into any detail.
When the Officers arrive... Identify yourself, but don't
make any statement until you are calm and have your Lawyer present.
(Make ONLY ONE STATEMENT and make it a written statement.
AGAIN... Don't make any statement without your attorney being present) If you give a verbal statement and it does not match the written statement,you will be interrogated about any and all differences.

Do not talk to anyone about the shooting w/o your attorney this includes cell mates ect...
NOTHING IS 'OFF THE RECORD'. Assume that everything is recorded. IT IS.

BTDT...

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Hand him my drivers license to ID myself and state that I would like to consult an attorney before making any statements.

I know that "lawyering up" makes you look guilty, but it is a better option than saying something that might get twisted around and spending some years in the slammer.

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head straight for mexico

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erichonda30 wrote:

head straight for mexico

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Officer: What happened here???
You: Lo siento, señor. Yo no hablo inglés.

:lol:

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SFCRetired wrote:

Even if I were only a witness, I would still want my lawyer present at any interview. The officer in question may be a nice, honest person but he/she may also be crooked as a constipated rattlesnake. I won't take the chance.

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Precisely.

You don't know that cop any more than he knows you.

"Trusting" a cop and discussing substantive matters without legal counsel present is as foolish as a cop leaving his firearm and ballistic vest in his trunk during a 2:00am stop of somebody with a tail light out. In both cases, PROBABLY nothing bad will happen, but if it does, it's going to be VERY bad, probably unrecoverable.

And as for protecting your rights being "suspicious", that's mostly bluster by police trying to get you to make an admission against penal interest. Substantively, it's on the same level as telling a girl in a bar that she needs to come home with you so people won't think she's a lesbian. I don't need the cops to like me, and don't care if they do. I need for them to obey the law and respect my rights.