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Thread: Guns on K-12 school property

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    Regular Member vt357's Avatar
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    VA-ALERT: IMPORTANT: New Virginia gun laws

    Philip Van Cleave

    ----------------------------------------
    VCDL's meeting schedule: http://www.vcdl.org/meetings.html
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    Abbreviations used in VA-ALERT: http://www.vcdl.org/help/abbr.html
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    You will probably want to keep this email, as it describes the new Virginia gun laws GOING INTO EFFECT ON JULY 1. There are some items here that you most likely are unaware of, so I highly recommend that you READ THIS ALERT IN ITS ENTIRETY.

    Areas affected by the new laws:

    ...

    MOTOR VEHICLES AND VESSELS

    For those who do not have a CHP, starting July 1 they can have a loaded handgun with them concealed in their motor vehicle or vessel as long as the handgun is secured in a container (such as a zipped bag, closed gun case, closed briefcase, etc.) or in a compartment (glovebox, console, etc.).

    NOTE: Remember that if you don't have a CHP, you generally can't carry a handgun in such a closed container OUTSIDE of your motor vehicle or vessel.

    K-12 SCHOOLS

    The new vehicle carry law, above, has an additional benefit for BOTH CHP holders and non-CHP holders. Under the law effective July 1, a loaded handgun can be kept in a secured container or a secured compartment in a motor vehicle while on K-12 school property.

    The new vehicle carry law (18.2-308 B 10) is in the list of general exemptions from the concealed weapon law. Police officers and Commonwealth Attorneys, for example, are listed in 18.2-308 B. The key is that in the third paragraph of the K-12 school weapons law (18.2-308.1) it says that anyone exempted from the concealed weapon law is also exempted from the ban on guns on K-12 school property.

    Thus, as long as your loaded handgun is in a secured compartment or a secured container BEFORE you pull onto school property and REMAINS SECURED in that compartment or container UNTIL AFTER you pull off the property, you are legal.

    In case those of you with CHPs are wondering why you can't carry outside of your vehicle on K-12 school property, that's because the CHP wording (18.2-308 D) is NOT in the list of exemptions to the concealed weapon law (18.2-308 B and 18.2-308 C). Instead, you can think of your CHP as a "get out of jail free" card. You are not actually exempted from the concealed carry law, but you have an affirmative defense against any prosecution.

    I think we should be working to exempt CHP holders from the concealed weapon law.

    ...
    So does that mean that I can go on school property with my loaded gun in a secured container and get out of the car (leaving it in the secured container)? Or does this new exemption only apply if you remain in the vehicle?

    Currently when I go on school property (with my CHP) I must remain in the car and the gun must remain concealed. If I want to exit the vehicle I technically need to unload and secure the gun before entering school property, then reload once I leave. Not having to worry about unloading/reloading every time I need to get out of the car would be a huge help.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    thats the way I understand it.
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
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    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

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    That is correct - as long as the handgun is secured at all times in a compartment or container in your motor vehicle while on school property, you are exempted from the CHP laws. Thus, you can exit the vehicle as long as you leave the loaded handgun secured in that container or compartment in the vehicle.

    You can still have the loaded handgun concealed on your person or anywhere in your vehicle IF you have a CHP AND you don't exit the vehicle.

    I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice, the above is my lay understanding of the law.


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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    VCDL President wrote:
    That is correct - as long as the handgun is secured at all times in a compartment or container in your motor vehicle while on school property, you are exempted from the CHP laws. Thus, you can exit the vehicle as long as you leave the loaded handgun secured in that container or compartment in the vehicle.

    You can still have the loaded handgun concealed on your person or anywhere in your vehicle IF you have a CHP AND you don't exit the vehicle.

    I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice, the above is my lay understanding of the law.
    IANAL either, but this could become a sticky wicket. If you are a CHP holder and enter k-12school property in your (or anyone else's) vehicle while carrying concealed, you must remain in the vehicleand your firearm must remain concealed. If your firearm is concealedon your person, you will be unable to move it to a secured container prior to exiting the vehicle.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    2a4all wrote:
    VCDL President wrote:
    That is correct - as long as the handgun is secured at all times in a compartment or container in your motor vehicle while on school property, you are exempted from the CHP laws. Thus, you can exit the vehicle as long as you leave the loaded handgun secured in that container or compartment in the vehicle.

    You can still have the loaded handgun concealed on your person or anywhere in your vehicle IF you have a CHP AND you don't exit the vehicle.

    I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice, the above is my lay understanding of the law.
    IANAL either, but this could become a sticky wicket. If you are a CHP holder and enter k-12school property in your (or anyone else's) vehicle while carrying concealed, you must remain in the vehicleand your firearm must remain concealed. If your firearm is concealedon your person, you will be unable to move it to a secured container prior to exiting the vehicle.
    Unless you have a small hand towel or similar and cover it.. disarm and put the hand towel wrapped item in the container to secure it.
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
    - - - -
    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

  6. #6
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    Or simply put the handgun in the glove box and close it before pulling onto the school property. That way you have access in an emergency, but your options are open on exiting the vehicle if that becomes necessary.


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    Maybe a blanket wrapped around your shoulders and draping over both you and the container/compartment while you transfer firearm.

    Not exactly subtle. But hard to argue that it's not concealed when no one can see anything from the neck down.

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    Fenris wrote:
    Maybe a blanket wrapped around your shoulders and draping over both you and the container/compartment while you transfer firearm.

    Not exactly subtle. But hard to argue that it's not concealed when no one can see anything from the neck down.
    Or just make damned sure no one can see you do that transfer. If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a noise?

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    VCDL President wrote:
    Fenris wrote:
    Maybe a blanket wrapped around your shoulders and draping over both you and the container/compartment while you transfer firearm.

    Not exactly subtle. But hard to argue that it's not concealed when no one can see anything from the neck down.
    Or just make damned sure no one can see you do that transfer. If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a noise?
    If a law is broken and no one is there to witness it, was a law really broken?
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    ProShooter wrote:
    VCDL President wrote:
    Fenris wrote:
    Maybe a blanket wrapped around your shoulders and draping over both you and the container/compartment while you transfer firearm.

    Not exactly subtle. But hard to argue that it's not concealed when no one can see anything from the neck down.
    Or just make damned sure no one can see you do that transfer. If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a noise?
    If a law is broken and no one is there to witness it, was a law really broken?
    Yes!
    Justice sees all, hears all and never sleeps:shock:




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    ProShooter wrote:
    VCDL President wrote:
    Fenris wrote:
    Maybe a blanket wrapped around your shoulders and draping over both you and the container/compartment while you transfer firearm.

    Not exactly subtle. But hard to argue that it's not concealed when no one can see anything from the neck down.
    Or just make damned sure no one can see you do that transfer.* If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a noise?
    If a law is broken and no one is there to witness it, was a law really broken?
    I don't agree that I would be breaking the law.

    Assume I do NOT have a CHP, and I am walking down the street with an open holster but a big blanket wrapped around me.

    If I am stopped by an officer and frisked, I would be arrested for a concealed weapon.

    How could this be considered concealed in one context, but not in another? To quote our CC only brethren "Concealed is concealed."

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Fenris wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    VCDL President wrote:
    Fenris wrote:
    Maybe a blanket wrapped around your shoulders and draping over both you and the container/compartment while you transfer firearm.

    Not exactly subtle. But hard to argue that it's not concealed when no one can see anything from the neck down.
    Or just make damned sure no one can see you do that transfer. If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a noise?
    If a law is broken and no one is there to witness it, was a law really broken?
    I don't agree that I would be breaking the law.

    Assume I do NOT have a CHP, and I am walking down the street with an open holster but a big blanket wrapped around me.

    If I am stopped by an officer and frisked, I would be arrested for a concealed weapon.

    How could this be considered concealed in one context, but not in another? To quote our CC only brethren "Concealed is concealed."
    It was a joke .
    For the record...here, the law is the law and breaking it isn't discussed.
    Out in the real world, everyone makes his/her own decisions but doesn't talk about them on this forum.

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    peter nap wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    VCDL President wrote:
    Fenris wrote:
    Maybe a blanket wrapped around your shoulders and draping over both you and the container/compartment while you transfer firearm.

    Not exactly subtle. But hard to argue that it's not concealed when no one can see anything from the neck down.
    Or just make damned sure no one can see you do that transfer. If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a noise?
    If a law is broken and no one is there to witness it, was a law really broken?
    Yes!
    Justice sees all, hears all and never sleeps:shock:


    LOL!
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

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    peter nap wrote:
    Fenris wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    VCDL President wrote:
    Fenris wrote:
    Maybe a blanket wrapped around your shoulders and draping over both you and the container/compartment while you transfer firearm.

    Not exactly subtle. But hard to argue that it's not concealed when no one can see anything from the neck down.
    Or just make damned sure no one can see you do that transfer.* If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a noise?
    If a law is broken and no one is there to witness it, was a law really broken?
    I don't agree that I would be breaking the law.

    Assume I do NOT have a CHP, and I am walking down the street with an open holster but a big blanket wrapped around me.

    If I am stopped by an officer and frisked, I would be arrested for a concealed weapon.

    How could this be considered concealed in one context, but not in another? To quote our CC only brethren "Concealed is concealed."
    It was a joke .
    For the record...here, the law is the law and breaking it isn't discussed.
    Out in the real world, everyone makes his/her own decisions but doesn't talk about them on this forum.
    I recognized the Three Amigos as a joke. I was responding to the question of whether "If a law is broken and no one is there to witness it, was a law really broken?"

    I was trying to discuss the issue of whether covering for concealment during a transfer from CC to "Secure Container/Compartment" while on school property would be legal under the revised law. This is not a minor consideration for me as I drive to drop off or pick up kids at least twice a school day. Of course we all make our own decisions. I am NOT advocating breaking any law. I fervently wish to remain legal 100% of the time. I am trying to verify exactly what is legal and what is not.

    Most of the time when I go to the school there is no need to exit the vehicle, so I do NOT disarm and store. When I am planning on exiting I disarm and store while off school grounds. BUT if (or WHEN) the need arises to unexpectedly exit, will a "conceal cover, disarm and store" be legal after July 1?

    I believe it will be. But IF I am wrong then I definitely want to know.

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