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Thread: 18.2-308.8 Question

  1. #1
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    I seem to be search challenged today and I've spent a few hours searching through old posts, but I'd swear this question was asked/answered last Fall.

    Question: Is it legal to possess a folding stock shotgun with a 20 round drum magazine?

    I believe one of the VA licensed attorneys posted the answer is yes. And the reason dealt with the way Virginia law is interpreted. If the law says "twelve shotgun shells" it means exactly twelve, so more than twelve is legal.

    Anyone have any insight as to where the original thread is or the legal interpretation of this statute?

    § 18.2-308.8. Importation, sale, possession or transfer of Striker 12's prohibited; penalty.
    It shall be unlawful for any person to import, sell, possess or transfer the following firearms: the Striker 12, commonly called a "streetsweeper," or any semi-automatic folding stock shotgun of like kind with a spring tension drum magazine capable of holding twelve shotgun shells. A violation of this section shall be punishable as a Class 6 felony.
    "Rule 1: All Guns Are Always Loaded" - Jeff Cooper
    On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs - by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman

  2. #2
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    user posted that I believe... try searching through his post history

    I will look for it as well.

    Edit:
    Can't find it. Might be easier to PM him and ask him to explain it here.

  3. #3
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    You are missing the important part - "Capable of holding 12 shotgun shells"

    Is a 20 round drum capable of holding 12 shells? yep. Its capable of holding 12, 15, 16, 3, or 1. Its not capable of holding 21.
    James Reynolds

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  4. #4
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    Proshooter,
    I recall that point being made in the original thread, but the legal "opinion" rebuffed that view and was what I posted above, IIRC. Contrast that point with 18.2-287.4, 18.2-308.2:01, 18.2-308.7 which use the phrase "will hold more than 20...". Why not use the phrase "capable of holding 21..."?

    Now if that point is correct, would a NFA SBS be subject to 18.2-308.8; given 18.2-303.1?

    18.2-303.1. What article does not prohibit. Nothing contained in this article shall prohibit or interfere with the possession of a "sawed-off" shotgun or "sawed-off" rifle for scientific purposes, the possession of a "sawed-off" shotgun or "sawed-off" rifle possessed in compliance with federal law or the possession of a "sawed-off" shotgun or "sawed-off" rifle not usable as a firing weapon and possessed as a curiosity, ornament, or keepsake.
    "Rule 1: All Guns Are Always Loaded" - Jeff Cooper
    On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs - by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman

  5. #5
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    bullseye wrote:
    Proshooter,
    I recall that point being made in the original thread, but the legal "opinion" rebuffed that view and was what I posted above, IIRC. Contrast that point with 18.2-287.4, 18.2-308.2:01, 18.2-308.7 which use the phrase "will hold more than 20...". Why not use the phrase "capable of holding 21..."?

    Now if that point is correct, would a NFA SBS be subject to 18.2-308.8; given 18.2-303.1?

    18.2-303.1. What article does not prohibit. Nothing contained in this article shall prohibit or interfere with the possession of a "sawed-off" shotgun or "sawed-off" rifle for scientific purposes, the possession of a "sawed-off" shotgun or "sawed-off" rifle possessed in compliance with federal law or the possession of a "sawed-off" shotgun or "sawed-off" rifle not usable as a firing weapon and possessed as a curiosity, ornament, or keepsake.
    I dont recall the original thread, but in my mind if they wanted to exclude a device that held "at least 12 shells", they would have said "at least" or a "minimum" or something. Its all very confusing.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

  6. #6
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    ProShooter wrote:
    SNIP I dont recall the original thread, but in my mind if they wanted to exclude a device that held "at least 12 shells", they would have said "at least" or a "minimum" or something. Its all very confusing.
    Slop-over from the senselessness of gun control. Can't apply logic to gun control. It even shows up in the statutes sometimes.

    Wait 'til they try to mix religion and gun control. Oh, wait...
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  7. #7
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    bullseye wrote:
    I seem to be search challenged today and I've spent a few hours searching through old posts, but I'd swear this question was asked/answered last Fall.

    Question: Is it legal to possess a folding stock shotgun with a 20 round drum magazine?

    I believe one of the VA licensed attorneys posted the answer is yes. And the reason dealt with the way Virginia law is interpreted. If the law says "twelve shotgun shells" it means exactly twelve, so more than twelve is legal.

    Anyone have any insight as to where the original thread is or the legal interpretation of this statute?

    § 18.2-308.8. Importation, sale, possession or transfer of Striker 12's prohibited; penalty.
    It shall be unlawful for any person to import, sell, possess or transfer the following firearms: the Striker 12, commonly called a "streetsweeper," or any semi-automatic folding stock shotgun of like kind with a spring tension drum magazine capable of holding twelve shotgun shells. A violation of this section shall be punishable as a Class 6 felony.
    Why not put a collapsable stock on it one that doesn't fold. See example here: http://www.bhigear.com/saiga12shortb...semi-auto.aspx I think it actually looks more B/A, Plus folding stocks on12 gauges are very hardon the user.



  8. #8
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    Well, guess I won't be getting any drums for my Saiga-12. I assume 12-round box mags are ok?

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