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Thread: Norfolk Waterside - "New" News (?)

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    That makes the parcel proper not only covered by preemption but with the city managing the leases... does that preempt all venues/businesses as well?

    http://hamptonroads.com/2010/05/what...nders-its-fate

    Either way Waterside is a municipal property and this just further cements that fact.
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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    nova wrote: Interesting read. It would also explain why gun show promotersthat stage events in publicvenues (Hampton Convention Center, Norfolk Scope, etc.)can ban/regulate firearms carry by attendees.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    2a4all wrote:
    nova wrote: Interesting read. It would also explain why gun show promotersthat stage events in publicvenues (Hampton Convention Center, Norfolk Scope, etc.)can ban/regulate firearms carry by attendees.
    [RANT]I told you when you started to ask about that issue to be very careful how you worded the question - it should not have been about what the licencee/permitee can/cannot do, but whether or not the municipality could abrogate rights when granting the license/permit.

    But look which question got asked! [/rant]

    And yet there might be an opportunity to get the more appropriate question asked this time. If we get the right question answered the right way, we essentially end up with two conflicting opinions. A nullity ensues, until somehow the conflict is resolved.

    HINT!

    stay safe.
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    skidmark wrote:
    2a4all wrote:
    nova wrote: Interesting read. It would also explain why gun show promotersthat stage events in publicvenues (Hampton Convention Center, Norfolk Scope, etc.)can ban/regulate firearms carry by attendees.
    [RANT]I told you when you started to ask about that issue to be very careful how you worded the question - it should not have been about what the licencee/permitee can/cannot do, but whether or not the municipality could abrogate rights when granting the license/permit.

    But look which question got asked! [/rant]

    And yet there might be an opportunity to get the more appropriate question asked this time. If we get the right question answered the right way, we essentially end up with two conflicting opinions. A nullity ensues, until somehow the conflict is resolved.

    HINT!

    stay safe.
    Sorry Skid, I have to agree with the letter. It is well-reasoned and answered. Granted, the answer isn't in our favor but it *IS* a fair answer.

    It basically says that government *can* lease public property to private entities and those private entities have full legal capability to ban / control access to their venue (including actions) like any other private entity leasing from another private entity. Thus all private entities are treated equally. That's cool by me.

    That letter ALSO states that government CANNOT lease to a private entity who then acts as the agent for the government over that property.

    So in the example given, the Red Cross could legally ban firearms within the area they leased from the city but could not do anything about firearms carried outside of their venue (a subset of the park) such as the rest of the park.

    IMO, the stance the Red Cross is taking WRT firearms is just another reason to not make use/support their activities. No sweat off my back.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Darthmord,

    I do not disagree with you that the opinion rendered is a fair one, based on the question posed. However, Isuggested the question that should have been asked was "Can a local government abrogate the rights of the citizens to a private permittee/licensee when alowing the use of public property by the permittee/licensee?"

    Different questions result in different answers. Be sure you know what you are asking before you commit to asking the question.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    skidmark wrote:
    Darthmord,

    I do not disagree with you that the opinion rendered is a fair one, based on the question posed. However, Isuggested the question that should have been asked was "Can a local government abrogate the rights of the citizens to a private permittee/licensee when alowing the use of public property by the permittee/licensee?"

    Different questions result in different answers. Be sure you know what you are asking before you commit to asking the question.

    stay safe.
    Asked another way: "Can a local government granta right/authoritythat it does not have to a private permittee/licensee when allowing the use of public property by the permittee/licensee?", to wit, grant permittee/licensee the authority to restrict firearmsin the public venue?
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

  8. #8
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    2a4all wrote:
    skidmark wrote:
    Darthmord,

    I do not disagree with you that the opinion rendered is a fair one, based on the question posed. However, Isuggested the question that should have been asked was "Can a local government abrogate the rights of the citizens to a private permittee/licensee when alowing the use of public property by the permittee/licensee?"

    Different questions result in different answers. Be sure you know what you are asking before you commit to asking the question.

    stay safe.
    Asked another way: "Can a local government granta right/authoritythat it does not have to a private permittee/licensee when allowing the use of public property by the permittee/licensee?", to wit, grant permittee/licensee the authority to restrict firearmsin the public venue?
    They do not grant and are not granting any authority to a private entity.

    The private entity already has that authority independent of the local government.

    Yata hey
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    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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