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Thread: Coming to AZ from Cali OC ok?

  1. #1
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    Iam visiting AZ Grand Canyon and other areas can you guys tell me the OC laws in the nutshell or point me to the right direction where i casn read up on it?

    Thx

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    Regular Member March Hare's Avatar
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    Welcome to AZ!
    In a nutshell, Loaded Open Carry is legal just about anywhere in AZ.

    You can't carry on K-12 grounds.
    AZ doesn't recognize the 1000' school limit.

    Don't carry places that serve alcohol for consumption on the premises without a concealed carry permit, and then, it has to be concealed and you can't drink.

    Don't carry in government buildings.

    Open carry in a vehicle is a bit trickier, just leave it in a holster and put it in the glove compartment or console and you're good.

    I think that about covers it.

    Enjoy your stay!

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    Regular Member AZkopper's Avatar
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    OC means just that OPEN CARRY. The law specifies that if a portion of the holster is visible, it is not concealed. Rule of thumb: if it is obvious you are carrying a gun, it is not concealed. Rule of Thumb #2: don't wear a jacket or 'cover shirt'. As of July 29, Constitutional Carry is the law of the land, OC or CC as you see fit.

    Loaded, 'one in the chamber' is legal, and preferred.

    You can carry anywhere except: 1) Bars or restaraunts that serve alcohol. You can CC with a permit, assuming they are not posted 'no firearms'. You cannot drink while armed. 2) Nuke plants, hydro electric plants, voting places.

    Civil buildings (court houses, town halls, police stations) must provide storage facilities for you if they ban weapons.

    Any private business may post 'no firearms' signs, but they are just trespass notices (much like 'no dogs' , 'shoes required' , etc.)

    Carrying in the car requires the gun be either a) in plain sight, b) in a glove box, map pocket,or center console, c) or holstered (not on the person). "c" is a special screwed up situtation caused by the courts, which ruled that a holstered weapon, on the person, is concealed by the vehicle itself. This will change on July 29, when our Constitutional Carry law goes in to affect, and there will be no legal difference between OC and CC (as long as you are 21 or older when CCing).

    Stay out of the usual federal buildings (post offices, forest service offices, etc).

    The Federal Gun Free School Zones (the 1000' rules) do not apply in AZ. Just stay off school property/parking lots. If you must be on a school ground/parking lot, the gun must be unloaded and kept out of sight in the car.

    I think that is about it. AZ is VERY gun friendly. You should have no problems from anyone.

    Oh yeah, OC in the Grand Canyon is fine, but stay out of any building other than a free standing outhouse.

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    Is a gun in a military-type flap holster, completely in the open so you can see the whole holster,considered OC or CC...especially if no partof the gun itself is visible? Or is this 'covered' (!) by your statement that only a part of a holster (even if flap) needs to be showing?

    Yes, most people would see a flap holster and think "gun" even though it can't be seen, but said holster might be empty or have a cell-phone in it instead. Can't be sure a GUN is in it.

    Was just wondering about any legal 'nuances' re: flap hoslters that in some cases, conceal the gun 100%. I mean, you know howmanylawyers (and DAs) like to nit-pick...which is often what laws are all about -- the details.

    I was trying to find out about "100% gun concealing" flap holsters in re: to NM OC law also, but no one has reponded to that. When I do, I'd like to compare it to AZ's legal opinion...and know how I can OC (using a flap holster) when I visit BOTH states.

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    Regular Member AZkopper's Avatar
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    I don't have any "legal" answer for the flap holster. I know some here have worn such, and seem to be ok.

    a flap holster is specifically designed to carry a handgun, so it is a holster under the statute definition. I'd say that a wholly or partially visible flap holster fits the wording of the law.

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    Regular Member mFonz77's Avatar
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    wolfeinstein,

    I just came back from the South Rim of the GC. The NPS has done a great job getting the signage up to compliance. Basically, you can OC or CC (if you have a permit that AZ recognizes, which is all of 'em) as you wish, but don't go into ANY NPS buildings (bathrooms are ok) if OC'ing, and I would suggest you don't board any of the free GC shuttles if you are OC'ing. While I cannot find anything in the ARS specifically prohibiting buses, I would err on the side of caution as they are owned by the federal government and you may be looking at some serious "terrorism" charges since buses are a means of mass transportation. I know in Missouri you cannot carry open or concealed onto a bus or train.

    If someone can cite a similar statute in ARS I would be most grateful.

    Other than that, carry on! (And post some pics!)
    My location says I am from Sierra Vista, AZ which is where I live now but I actually lived in MO for 26 years! So please stop telling me I don't know what I'm talking about when I post in the Missouri forum!

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    Ok thx guys for the informative help! Any thoughts on rifles like AK or AR?

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    Regular Member mFonz77's Avatar
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    wolfeinstein wrote:
    Ok thx guys for the informative help! Any thoughts on rifles like AK or AR?
    Uh, yes, my thought would be "Backcountry only." Do what you will, but if you walk into the Grand Canyon with an AK you're probably not leaving in the car you used to get there.

    If you're keeping it in your car for defense from predators (human or animal) that's one thing, but if you're walking around trying to make a political statement I can pretty much guarantee you WILL be on national news later that evening.

    Jus' sayin'
    My location says I am from Sierra Vista, AZ which is where I live now but I actually lived in MO for 26 years! So please stop telling me I don't know what I'm talking about when I post in the Missouri forum!

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    No, the plan was to shoot in the desert to carry it in the car!

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    Regular Member mFonz77's Avatar
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    Oh, yeah go for it. If you get pulled over you probably DON'T want to have it in the passenger seat uncased/cocked/locked, though

    Keep in mind, if you have others in your car, you cannot have a concealed weapon "within the immediate control of" any of them if they do NOT have a CCW. So for example, if you have a snubbie in the glovebox, and your wife is in the passenger seat, that is considered that she is concealing without a permit and she will be cited.
    My location says I am from Sierra Vista, AZ which is where I live now but I actually lived in MO for 26 years! So please stop telling me I don't know what I'm talking about when I post in the Missouri forum!

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    mFonz77 wrote:
    Oh, yeah go for it. If you get pulled over you probably DON'T want to have it in the passenger seat uncased/cocked/locked, though

    Keep in mind, if you have others in your car, you cannot have a concealed weapon "within the immediate control of" any of them if they do NOT have a CCW. So for example, if you have a snubbie in the glovebox, and your wife is in the passenger seat, that is considered that she is concealing without a permit and she will be cited.
    My understanding of Arizona law is that no permit is required to have a firearm in a vehicle as long as it is in plain view or in a glove box.

    Besides, once constitutional carry kicks in later this year, it will all be a moot point anyway.
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    What do you guys mean by constitutional carry?

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    wolfeinstein wrote:
    What do you guys mean by constitutional carry?
    No permit required for concealed or open carry. Vermont and Alaska already have this. Vermont has never issued permits. Alaska required permits at one time but dropped the requirement. They still issue permits for carrying in other states that offer reciprocity.

    Arizona just adopted a similar system to Alaska and it will become law, I believe, in late summer.

    Arizona just moved even higher up on the list of places I am considering moving to...

    EDIT: Just to clarify, a permit was never needed in any of the above states for open carry...
    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...and_rebellions
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    Wow awesome! States Rights !

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    mFonz77 wrote:
    Oh, yeah go for it. If you get pulled over you probably DON'T want to have it in the passenger seat uncased/cocked/locked, though
    Why? There's nothing in the state statutes that prohibit this.

    mFonz77 wrote:
    Keep in mind, if you have others in your car, you cannot have a concealed weapon "within the immediate control of" any of them if they do NOT have a CCW. So for example, if you have a snubbie in the glovebox, and your wife is in the passenger seat, that is considered that she is concealing without a permit and she will be cited.
    She won't be cited. As long as it is in a holster it doesn't matter. A glove box is legal as are map pockets and center consoles. About the only way you could get in trouble is if she were concealing it on her person, or un-holstered, under a seat or between the seat and the console or some other such nonsense.

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    mFonz77 wrote:
    wolfeinstein,

    I just came back from the South Rim of the GC. The NPS has done a great job getting the signage up to compliance. Basically, you can OC or CC (if you have a permit that AZ recognizes, which is all of 'em) as you wish, but don't go into ANY NPS buildings (bathrooms are ok) if OC'ing, and I would suggest you don't board any of the free GC shuttles if you are OC'ing. While I cannot find anything in the ARS specifically prohibiting buses, I would err on the side of caution as they are owned by the federal government and you may be looking at some serious "terrorism" charges since buses are a means of mass transportation. I know in Missouri you cannot carry open or concealed onto a bus or train.

    If someone can cite a similar statute in ARS I would be most grateful.

    Other than that, carry on! (And post some pics!)
    Just to clarify, no permit needed to open carry now, and after July 29th, no permit needed to carry concealed. BTW, after 29 July, the law will include all knives.

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    AZkopper wrote:
    I don't have any "legal" answer for the flap holster. I know some here have worn such, and seem to be ok. a flap holster is specifically designed to carry a handgun, so it is a holster under the statute definition. I'd say that a wholly or partially visible flap holster fits the wording of the law.
    Until July 29th, the flap holster, worn on the belt, meets ARS 13-3102.G, providng it is "obvious under normal observation" per the 1994 Court of Appeals decision.

    However, all this becomes mute onJuly 29th. What is currently ARS 13-3102.G (open and vehicle carry exceptions to firearms misconduct) is erased from the statutes and ARS 13-3102.A removes the requirement to have a CCW permit when carrying discreetly.

    On a more practical note, unless one is wearing some kind of ancient reinactment uniform, why even consider a flap holster?

    Fred


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    azcdlfred wrote:
    On a more practical note, unless one is wearing some kind of ancient reinactment uniform, why even consider a flap holster?
    I open carried in AZ a couple years ago in the summer... that gun metal gets damn hot if you're in the sun more than a few minutes! Even the black plastic parts were uncomfortable to handle.

    In the summer, I probably would prefer a holster that fully covers my firearm. I can't imagine how much worse a shot I'd be under stress and burning the **** out of my hands.

    Besides that, a full flap holster would keep more sand out of the firearm, especially if you're gonna spend some time out in the desert.
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    Open Carry and Concealed Carry will be Legal in Arizona, without any need for a Permit to do so, sometime in July!

    Arizona will join the ranks of Alaska and Vermont in this area, and it will be the third State to do so.

    Open Carry is Legal in Public Buildings in Arizona. The Law in this regard reads:

    Arizona Revised Statute 13-3102

    A Person commits Misconduct by Weapons by knowingly:

    ***

    10 [Unless authorized under 13-3102(C)]... enter[s] any Public Establishment [with a Weapon]... after [receiving] a reasonable request by the Operator of The Establishment... to remove or secure... [the Weapon], [such request to remove or secure a Weapon shall be in accordance with 13-3102.01].

    ***

    ARS 13-3102, supra, (M)(1) Public Establishment means a Structure, Vehicle or Craft that is owned, leased or operated by this State or a Political Subdivision of this State.

    Therefore, if a Public Establishment does not want Weapons on its own Premises, then, it must follow the guise of ARS 13-3102, the matter being Preempted by The State of Arizona under ARS 13-3108.

    ***

    ARS 13-3102.01 Storage of [Weapons], etc, [pursuant to ARS 13-3102(A)(10).]

    A. If an operator of a Public Establishment... [reasonably] requests that a Person carrying a Deadly Weapon remove the Weapon, the Operator or Sponsor shall provide temporary and secure storage. The storage shall be readily accessible on entry into the Establishment...[,] and allow for the immediate retrieval of the Weapon on exit from the Establishment..., [ex. seq. ARS 13-3102(A)(10)].

    B. This section does not apply to the Licensed Premises of any Public Establishment... with a License [refers to Alcohol License/Licensing]issued pursuant to Title 4.

    C. The Operator of the Establishment... or the Employee of the Operator or Sponsor or the Agent of the Sponsor, including a Public Entity or Public Employee, is not liable for acts or omissions pursuant to this section unless the Operator, Sponsor, Employee or Agent intended to cause injury or was grossly negligent.

    D. For the purposes of this section, "Public Establishment"...ha[s] the same meaning/ prescribed in section 13-3102.

    ARS 13-3108 State Preemption [of] Weapons

    A.... A Political Subdivision of this State shall not enact any Ordinance, Rule or Tax relating to the transportation, possession, Carrying, sale, transfer or use of Firearms or Ammunition or any Firearm or Ammunition components in this State.

    B. A Political Subdivision of this State shall not require the Licensing or Registration of Firearms or Ammunition or any Firearm or Ammunition components or prohibit the ownership, purchase, sale or transfer of Firearms or Ammunition or any Firearm or Ammunition components.

    ***Therefore, pursuant to ARS 13-3102 through 13-3108, if you enter a Public Establishment with a Firearm, and the Rightful Governmental Entity does not like it, they can reasonably ask you to store it..., provided; you may retrieve it [The Firearm] as you leave.***



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    Hey AZ,

    What must it be like to live in a free state with a legislature and governor whohonor law-abiding citizens.

    Life in the PRK is not so good.

    markm

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    NavyLT wrote:
    I fully admit that the chances of that happening are miniscule, but it is a false state to say the Federal law does not apply. A more correct statement would be that the state of Arizona does not enforce the law - but that doesn't keep the Federal government from enforcing the law in Arizona.
    Consdier this. Under a Republican governor a bill was passed to enforce federal immigration law. Under a Democrat governor maybe a bill will be passed to enforce the federal gun-free school zones? Without a permit, you are breaking federal law if you are within 1,000 feet of a school zone. Alan Korwin posted some mapson his website. It's almost impossible to not break the law. Having a permit is good insurance in that regard.

    Fred

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    Flapped holsters. I use 'em. The Makarov seems to have no other choice 'cept a 'bucket'. The 1911 goes in one mostly when I'm on horseback, but other times as well. The Federal 1,000' 'rule'.... good luck with that. I see the paranoia runs deep elsewhere. SB1070 has caused us to be labeled a Police State by those who really do live in 'Police States'.... 'n those who shouldn't be 'here' anyway.The 1,000 school zone nonsense is a moot non-issue point reserved for out-of-state hysterics.

  23. #23
    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    Flapped holsters. I use 'em. The Makarov seems to have no other choice 'cept a 'bucket'. The 1911 goes in one mostly when I'm on horseback, but other times as well.
    Never been a fan of things, like a flap,that get in the way of arapid and smooth presentation. Don't ride horses but have owned and ridden motorcycles. Even then, I wore my usual Blade-tech, outside the waist band, straight drop, kydex belt holster with no retention beyond the pressure applied by the "retention" screws. But, I can imagine a horse ride in the desert kicking up more dust that a highway motorcycle ride. But, Iwear a Glock, so it doesn't matter.



    Fred

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    A one hand sweep will open the flap and allow the 'present'. Unless you practice quick-draw McGraw style... People in all armies have fought wars with these types of holsters.

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