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Thread: What Should I Do to Prep to OC at U of M?

  1. #1
    Regular Member The Expert's Avatar
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    The CPL processing site says that my CPL was approved a few weeks back. I'm still waiting for it to turn up in the mail, but I guess it's just a matter of time.

    After doing a fair amount of research, I've come to the conclusion that I'm probably going to switch to OC most of the time. As I am a student at U of M Dearborn, I spend most of my time there.

    I'm really not liking the idea of disarming then rearming every time I arrive/depart the school premises, so I'd like to exercise my right to OC there.

    Furthermore, as it's a college and colleges seems to be a popular place to educate young people to different ideas (seems like a lot of civil rights movements start/grow at universities) it seems like a good place to keep people educated.

    After all, every group that has something to say is represented there. There is a major Muslim group that is always staging awareness events and the such and the GLBT group is pretty active as well. Seems like it would make sense to try and get the message out there about 2nd Amendment rights as well.

    Can anyone share some ideas about how to go about this the "right" way? I was thinking of setting an appointment with the chancellor and presenting materials, making my case, and getting the blessing of the powers that be before going into it.

    Any advice is appreciated.
    I always open carry one of my Kimber 1911 pistols everywhere I go. Usually in a paddle holster. Nothing fancy, but it works for me.

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    We-the-People

    you should talk to that guy^^^ he is very active in oregon pushing for student carry
    and 1,2,4,5, amendment awareness, he can tell you lots of good stuff.

    back to your CPL, you gotta call them and pester them to get them to actually give it to you.
    they have lotsa approved CPLs ready to send out, but they will sit on them untill you make a stink! you might get it the same day you call!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    Talk to DPS before you do anything.

    http://police.umich.edu/



    I've had conversations with them before and they said I can carry a knife less than 3". I'd be surpised if you could OC there. Keep us updated!

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    I am also a student at U of M (Ann Arbor). I highly recommend talking to the DPS before doing this. The MI Constitution gives several universities (U of M being one) special powers of municipality. This means they can form their own laws and regulations and have their own police force. I do not think that pre-emption applies to them (don't quote me on that, I'm kind of guessing). If it doesn't, they can Constitutionally ban firearms on their campuses and expel students that do not comply. This may not apply to the Dearborn campus. Just a heads up on how laws and U of M work.

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Sefner wrote:
    I am also a student at U of M (Ann Arbor). I highly recommend talking to the DPS before doing this. The MI Constitution gives several universities (U of M being one) special powers of municipality. This means they can form their own laws and regulations and have their own police force. I do not think that pre-emption applies to them (don't quote me on that, I'm kind of guessing). If it doesn't, they can Constitutionally ban firearms on their campuses and expel students that do not comply. This may not apply to the Dearborn campus. Just a heads up on how laws and U of M work.
    Please post a link to the portion of the MI Constitution and/or any laws that grant Universities special powers? I'd like to read them.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Bikenut wrote:
    Sefner wrote:
    I am also a student at U of M (Ann Arbor). I highly recommend talking to the DPS before doing this. The MI Constitution gives several universities (U of M being one) special powers of municipality. This means they can form their own laws and regulations and have their own police force. I do not think that pre-emption applies to them (don't quote me on that, I'm kind of guessing). If it doesn't, they can Constitutionally ban firearms on their campuses and expel students that do not comply. This may not apply to the Dearborn campus. Just a heads up on how laws and U of M work.
    Please post a link to the portion of the MI Constitution and/or any laws that grant Universities special powers? I'd like to read them.
    Me too. I can not wait to see it.

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    Regular Member kyleplusitunes's Avatar
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    campus safety told me so!

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    I just visited http://www.ballotpedia.org/wiki/inde...n_Constitution and then went through each of the Articles (I - XII) and the Attached Schedules and ran a Ctrl+F search for the term "university" on each of them.

    The only thing that comes up is establishing a board of regenst for each public university, assigning their term, and giving them the power to manager their university budget internally.

    I can't find anything in the constitution that causes them to be a separate "state within the state"...am I looking in the wrong places? Are there amendments?
    I always open carry one of my Kimber 1911 pistols everywhere I go. Usually in a paddle holster. Nothing fancy, but it works for me.

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    premption only applies to local units of government as defined in the statute. A state university is not a local unit of government.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    I found this on wikipedia which says that Board of Regents for U-of-M, Michigan State, and Wayne State are separate constitutional entities. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Board_o...ty_of_Michigan

    Strange thing is that this idea was cocked up in conjunction with the State Constitution of 1850 and a subsequent decision by Justice Claudius Grant around 1895.

    That makes little sense though, because the constitution was recreated in 1965 with no mention of such a standing. Was it somehow "grandfathered" in?
    I always open carry one of my Kimber 1911 pistols everywhere I go. Usually in a paddle holster. Nothing fancy, but it works for me.

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    They have the same powers has a municipality does when it comes to regulations like this. That is why U of M has their own police force that can enforce any regulations set by the University and have powers of arrest. Not just an everyday "campus security". This is allowed by court rulings.

    Michigan Supreme Court ruled that the state constitution explicitly defined the powers of the Board of Regents independently of the Legislature, while every other corporation the constitution created had its powers specified by the Legislature. Justice Claudius Grant wrote: "No other conclusion was...possible than that the intention was to place the institution in the direct and exclusive control of the people themselves, through a constitutional body elected by them."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Board_o...ty_of_Michigan

    So you could argue it's even different from a municipality.

    Even if it's not specifically in the MI Constitution, that is how U of M is treated when it comes to state law. CCing on U of M's campus is an arrestable offense even though you're not in a "dormitory or classroom of a college or university" (look at the back of your CPL)

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    Further diggng at the source (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...nstitution.pdf) shows the newest version of the constitution specifically not limiting the powers of the Board of Regents with a reference back to a previous version of the constitution.

    So it would appear that the Regents' Ordinances are law. If you read those ordinances, then you'll find that firearms on the campus property in any way is a no-no.

    This would mean that you could be arrested if you disarmed and left your pistol in your car when headed into a football game. CPL or not...those laws don't apply.
    I always open carry one of my Kimber 1911 pistols everywhere I go. Usually in a paddle holster. Nothing fancy, but it works for me.

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    Remember to get anything legally binding in writing.

    Word of mouth does NOT stand up in court.

    -Richard-

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    So uh, Umich has an ordinance on the books right now.

    Possession of weapons of any kind = 10-90 days in jail, a $50 fine, or both.

    Just in case you were wondering.

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    I should also add that the preemption law, MCL 123.1102, only restricts Local Units of Government.

    A Local Unit of Government, as defined in that law, is a City, Village, County, or Township. A University is not among them.

    Since Universities have been granted both the power to make ordinances and the power to enforce them with their own police force, the laws they make are very real and very detrimental to your criminal record should you choose to carry there.

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    I believe you said that you were a student which gives U of M a bit more "power" in the situation. If you are, I would most certainly prepare by checking out other schools you may be interested in attending. That way, as a student of some other school, carrying at UofM is just a small test. (small bit of sarcasm here, sorry)

    As a student there, I would not carry in violation of the rules/policy etc. Admin may try to stay away from pushing the issue in front of a judge if one of us non-students is caught in violation. Rest assured as a student, though, I can't imagine they would even think twice of sending you on your way...
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    So where is this CPL processing site you speak of?

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    Slinger wrote:
    So where is this CPL processing site you speak of?
    Some counties show "progress" of your CPL on a county-built website, showing things such as pending review, being reviewed, approved, etc.

    Not many counties do this.

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    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    Slinger wrote:
    So where is this CPL processing site you speak of?
    Some counties show "progress" of your CPL on a county-built website, showing things such as pending review, being reviewed, approved, etc.

    Not many counties do this.
    macomb county has this feature. probably so people wont call them so often. i just got my cpl on friday.

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    Thanks I guess grand rapids does not have one

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    No, Grand Rapids (Kent County) does not
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    8. Macomb County Sheriff's Office receives background report regarding fingerprints from the Federal Bureau of Investigations(FBI).

    04/28/2010


    9. Macomb County Clerk's Office receives the State of Michigan and Federal Bureau of Investigation Reports from the Macomb County Sheriff's Office.

    The Macomb County Clerk's office has not yet received the background check from the Macomb County Sheriff's Office. When the background check is received by the Clerk's Office, your application will be processed and you will be scheduled for a Gun Board meeting (except in the case of renewals).
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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Expert,

    Your safest option is to do an "empty holster" event. This drives them nuts! But if they try to stop you it is a violation of your civil rights. If you need help, I would suggest you send a PM to:

    JeffSayers (MOC President). He is always very helpful.

    Or Venator, he is an almost limitless source of OC info.

    I am a student also (local Comm. College) and empty holster is the only way to get your point across without the campus police arresting you. Be aware some staff may ask you to leave their class because you are causing a disturbance. I know it's a lame option but at this time it is your only safe way to go in my honest opinion.

    Best regards,

    - G9mmOS
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

  24. #24
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Bikenut wrote:
    Sefner wrote:
    I am also a student at U of M (Ann Arbor). I highly recommend talking to the DPS before doing this. The MI Constitution gives several universities (U of M being one) special powers of municipality. This means they can form their own laws and regulations and have their own police force. I do not think that pre-emption applies to them (don't quote me on that, I'm kind of guessing). If it doesn't, they can Constitutionally ban firearms on their campuses and expel students that do not comply. This may not apply to the Dearborn campus. Just a heads up on how laws and U of M work.
    Please post a link to the portion of the MI Constitution and/or any laws that grant Universities special powers? I'd like to read them.
    Actually I believe there is a section in the Michigan Constitution that allows Wayne State, UM and MSU to have plenary powers to conduct and enact certain laws.

    As has been discussed to death this is a gray area and it seems no one on either side of the gun issue wants to push it. MSU feels that they would lose to preemption and have relaxed some of their ordinances to reflect that. UM states it will arrest you based on these powers.

    There has been a law proposed (and stalled) that would pull in colleges under preemption. And of course there is one trying to get rid of the classroom and dorm ban.

    We need to bring them unquestionably under preemption or get an AG opinion or a suit to decide this once and for all.

    If you are a student you have to abide by the policy of the university or face disciplinary action up to expulsion.


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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    SuperSneakySteve wrote:
    I've had conversations with them before and they said I can carry a knife less than 3". I'd be surpised if you could OC there. Keep us updated!
    Unfortunately, Dearborn has a local knife ordinance so they were correct.

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