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Thread: Oc and the AT

  1. #1
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    Hey guys I'm a va resident and have started OC about 24/7 outside of work. I like going on the trail between harpers ferry and rt7 I usually park at rt9 but would like to park at other acesses once I get bored

    wv law seems MUCH more confusing than ours. So I'll make my ? Specific. Can I oc in the car to park in the lot (on wv side of border). Or do I have to go through the silliness of casing it or whatever. The trail crisscrosses nat'l park and private property in va and wv. I'm legal on va side but what about portions that are in wv?

    If it makes any difference I do have a va ccp but much prefer oc

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    There was a post not too long ago on here about driving OC, so take a look back through the forum.

    http://www.wvstatepolice.com/legal/faq%27s.html

    http://www.wvago.gov/pdf/BookletWVFirearmLaws.pdf


    Quote from the PDF:
    "The West Virginia State Police strongly recommend that if one does not have a concealed handgun permit, all weapons transported in a motor vehicle should be unloaded with the ammunition stored separately.

    Lastly, West Virginia law requires that hunting weapons being transported in a vehicle be unloaded and in cases."


    Quote from the WV State Police FAQ:
    Q. Is it lawful to carry weapons (e.g. rifles, shotguns, and pistols) in my vehicle when I travel in West Virginia?

    A. Individuals who possess a valid concealed carry permit may carry a concealed handgun in a motor vehicle for purpose of self defense only. West Virginia permits anyone who can lawfully possess a handgun to carry an unconcealed handgun. If you choose to carry an unconcealed handgun in your vehicle and are stopped by a law-enforcement officer, you must understand that that the weapon will immediately attract the attention of the police officer. The presence of the weapon may lead to action by the officer to ensure his or her safety such as the drawing of his or her weapon, ordering you from the vehicle, and/or performing a pat-down search. Weapons intended for hunting must be unloaded and in a case when transported in a vehicle. It is strongly recommended that, if you do not have a valid concealed carry permit, while traveling in a vehicle, that all firearms be unloaded and cased in a location in the vehicle that is not readily accessible to any of the occupants. Any ammunition should be stored in a separate location from the firearm.

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    Unread through those post prior. First is leaving the gun in my right side oc holster when driving considered plain view? In va it is


    Why would a wv state trooper point a gun at me and do a patdown if I am oc? WhAt exactly is the patdown for? To see if I am carrying a gun? He already saw it which was the cause for the patdown seems circular to me


    How about outside the vehicle the laws seem really convulated

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    Unread through those post prior. First is leaving the gun in my right side oc holster when driving considered plain view? In va it is


    Why would a wv state trooper point a gun at me and do a patdown if I am oc? WhAt exactly is the patdown for? To see if I am carrying a gun? He already saw it which was the cause for the patdown seems circular to me


    How about outside the vehicle the laws seem really convulated


    Also that booklet states that oc is for wv residents only? I guess wv doesn't have the equal protection clause.

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    conhntr wrote:
    Unread through those post prior. First is leaving the gun in my right side oc holster when driving considered plain view? In va it is


    Why would a wv state trooper point a gun at me and do a patdown if I am oc? WhAt exactly is the patdown for? To see if I am carrying a gun? He already saw it which was the cause for the patdown seems circular to me


    How about outside the vehicle the laws seem really convulated


    Also that booklet states that oc is for wv residents only? I guess wv doesn't have the equal protection clause.
    It syas "the officer MAY unholster his weapon" If you are complaint and respectful, I doubt he would point his weapon at your head.

    As far as not being a WV resident and OC'ing, Im not sure. Im a PA resident and I oc all the time in WV.

    Also, be VERY careful where you OC at Harpers Ferry. A lot of that area is under National Park status.
    "Let your gun be your constant companion during your walks" ~Thomas Jefferson

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    I know the new nAt'l park rule is whAtever the states law is where the park is located. In va we can carry in all nat'l parks just not in the bldgs

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    Regular Member virginiatuck's Avatar
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    conhntr wrote:
    I know the new nAt'l park rule is whAtever the states law is where the park is located. In va we can carry in all nat'l parks just not in the bldgs
    Technically only a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties. For conviction of an offense, the public entrances of such a building must also be conspicuously posted.
    18 USC 930

    Eg. privately run restaurants, motels, gift shops, etc... would not necessarily be precluded from carry.

    As I always say: I'm not an attorney and am not encouraging anyone to do anything. Always consult a properly licensed attorney.



    To the OP: I have a CHP and I do not worry about carrying in a vehicle whether openly or concealed when I'm in West Virginia. I always have my VA CHP (among other concealment/firearm licenses) with me anyway since I like to keep my options open.

    Stay away from prohibited places and you'll be fine openly carrying. If I were you, I'd carry my VA CHP with me anyway, though technically it is not required as long as the loaded handgun remains visible at all times.

    Check out WVCDL, if you haven't already. They have a page which goes on about concealment, but towards the bottom lists "places that are off limits" to any form of firearms carry.

    http://www.wvcdl.org/WVCCW.html



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    conhntr wrote:
    Unread through those post prior. First is leaving the gun in my right side oc holster when driving considered plain view? In va it is
    I have read or been told somewhere that plain view was on the seat. In a holster while you are in a sitting position is concealed to the officer.

    The danger about having a firearm on the seat is that if you are involved in a wreck it may end up concealed under the seat. That could be a problem legally, aside from the obvious hazards it going flying around in your vehicle. However, I will OC with my revolver on my passenger seat when I am traveling short distances to access the other entrance to my property. It is too much of a hassle to unload and lockup for a 1/4 mile journey down a gravel road.

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    Also, be VERY careful where you OC at Harpers Ferry. A lot of that area is under National Park status.
    I thought there was a national law passed back in February 2010 that allowed guns in national parks?

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    Regular Member virginiatuck's Avatar
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    mljenkins wrote:
    conhntr wrote:
    Unread through those post prior. First is leaving the gun in my right side oc holster when driving considered plain view? In va it is
    I have read or been told somewhere that plain view was on the seat. In a holster while you are in a sitting position is concealed to the officer.

    The danger about having a firearm on the seat is that if you are involved in a wreck it may end up concealed under the seat. That could be a problem legally, aside from the obvious hazards it going flying around in your vehicle. However, I will OC with my revolver on my passenger seat when I am traveling short distances to access the other entrance to my property. It is too much of a hassle to unload and lockup for a 1/4 mile journey down a gravel road.
    The answer on open carry in a vehicle isn't clear cut to me. Some OC'ers believe that a firearm is not concealed if the fact that someone else can't see it is only incidental to where one is standing or sitting at the time; such as in a car or in a restaurant booth. Others think that a firearm must be plainly visible to everyone in your proximity at all times or else it's considered concealed. The definition of concealed varies from State to State, too. Every definition of concealment I've ever read in statutory law is somewhat ambiguous.

    West Virginia code 61-7-2(10) defines concealed:
    "Concealed" means hidden from ordinary observation so as to prevent disclosure or recognition. A deadly weapon is concealed when it is carried on or about the person in such a manner that another person in the ordinary course of events would not be placed on notice that the deadly weapon was being carried.

    Questions that have to be answered:
    - What does "ordinary observation" mean?
    - What does "another person in the ordinary course of events" mean?
    - The answer to those questions is pretty straightforward for someone who is on foot in public, but what are the answers to these questions in the context of sitting inside of a vehicle with a handgun holstered on their hip?
    - Does the last phrase of that definition of concealed mean that someone could simply put a written notice on the outside of their car?

    Perhaps these questions have already been answered by the court(s) or have definitions elsewhere in law. This subject has been discussed ad nauseum in the Virginia forum. If you want to read everyone's theories, arguments, and links to case law in Virginia, use the search function on the page. I don't think it's been discussed to that length in the West Virginia forum. Obviously, WV has a slightly different definition of concealed than Virginia; not to mention a whole other set of case law that does not apply to West Virginia.

    From the perspective of people in passing cars or walking by, the firearm would be concealed, wouldn't it? From the perspective of someone inside the car, the firearm may not be concealed, would it? From the perspective of a police officer who has pulled you over, the firearm would be concealed, wouldn't it?

    Don't get me wrong, I think the manner in which one is carrying on their person, regardless of where they're standing or sitting, is what should determine whether a firearm or other weapon is concealed.

    Another question I ask is:
    Aside from repeal, is there a better way to define concealed?

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