imported post
mljenkins wrote:
conhntr wrote:
Unread through those post prior. First is leaving the gun in my right side oc holster when driving considered plain view? In va it is
I have read or been told somewhere that plain view was on the seat. In a holster while you are in a sitting position is concealed to the officer.
The danger about having a firearm on the seat is that if you are involved in a wreck it may end up concealed under the seat. That could be a problem legally, aside from the obvious hazards it going flying around in your vehicle. However, I will OC with my revolver on my passenger seat when I am traveling short distances to access the other entrance to my property. It is too much of a hassle to unload and lockup for a 1/4 mile journey down a gravel road.
The answer on open carry in a vehicle isn't clear cut to me. Some OC'ers believe that a firearm is not concealed if the fact that someone else can't see it is only incidental to where one is standing or sitting at the time; such as in a car or in a restaurant booth. Others think that a firearm must be plainly visible to everyone in your proximity at all times or else it's considered concealed. The definition of concealed varies from State to State, too. Every definition of concealment I've ever read in statutory law is somewhat ambiguous.
West Virginia code 61-7-2(10) defines concealed:
"Concealed" means hidden from ordinary observation so as to prevent disclosure or recognition. A deadly weapon is concealed when it is carried on or about the person in such a manner that another person in the ordinary course of events would not be placed on notice that the deadly weapon was being carried.
Questions that have to be answered:
- What does "ordinary observation" mean?
- What does "another person in the ordinary course of events" mean?
- The answer to those questions is pretty straightforward for someone who is on foot in public, but what are the answers to these questions in the context of sitting inside of a vehicle with a handgun holstered on their hip?
- Does the last phrase of that definition of concealed mean that someone could simply put a written notice on the outside of their car?
Perhaps these questions have already been answered by the court(s) or have definitions elsewhere in law. This subject has been discussed ad nauseum in the Virginia forum. If you want to read everyone's theories, arguments, and links to case law in Virginia, use the search function on the page. I don't think it's been discussed to that length in the West Virginia forum. Obviously, WV has a slightly different definition of concealed than Virginia; not to mention a whole other set of case law that does not apply to West Virginia.
From the perspective of people in passing cars or walking by, the firearm would be concealed, wouldn't it? From the perspective of someone inside the car, the firearm may not be concealed, would it? From the perspective of a police officer who has pulled you over, the firearm would be concealed, wouldn't it?
Don't get me wrong, I think the manner in which one is carrying on their person, regardless of where they're standing or sitting, is what should determine whether a firearm or other weapon is concealed.
Another question I ask is:
Aside from repeal, is there a better way to define concealed?
