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Thread: carrying in school zone?

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    So how are things looking,realistically,as far as getting the law changed to remove 1000ft within a school zone part?Do you think it will ever happen?

    To be honest,this is the only thing that prevents me many times from open carrying.its the one where you could easily walk into an area an be within 1000 feet and not know it.There are so many schools in most cities and it is not an easy thing to keep straight as far as where they all are.My big fear is abiding by this.I don't want to walk into one,not know it,and get in huge trouble by mistake.If this school zone thing was changed,i be carrying daily.

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    revolverrandy wrote:
    So how are things looking,realistically,as far as getting the law changed to remove 1000ft within a school zone part?Do you think it will ever happen?

    To be honest,this is the only thing that prevents me many times from open carrying.its the one where you could easily walk into an area an be within 1000 feet and not know it.There are so many schools in most cities and it is not an easy thing to keep straight as far as where they all are.My big fear is abiding by this.I don't want to walk into one,not know it,and get in huge trouble by mistake.If this school zone thing was changed,i be carrying daily.
    This is Wisconsin...too liberal...I never see the GFSZ going away....ever.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

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    revolverrandy wrote:
    So how are things looking,realistically,as far as getting the law changed to remove 1000ft within a school zone part?Do you think it will ever happen?

    To be honest,this is the only thing that prevents me many times from open carrying.its the one where you could easily walk into an area an be within 1000 feet and not know it.There are so many schools in most cities and it is not an easy thing to keep straight as far as where they all are.My big fear is abiding by this.I don't want to walk into one,not know it,and get in huge trouble by mistake.If this school zone thing was changed,i be carrying daily.

    Keepan eye onWisconsin Carry's lawsuit challenging the constitutionality of the GFSZ that's making it's way through the courts. Besides legislation, this is our best chance of changing it currently.


    Also, if we get CCW legislation passed, it maybe a way to circumvent this as well.

    Many of the weapons laws in Wisconsin are on constitutionally shaky ground including the CCW Prohibition, the GFSZA, and IMO; the vehicle carry laws as well.


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    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    some Judge will kill our lawsuit, just like the Milwaukee Judge killed that one a few weeks ago.... I have no faith in the Judicial system in Wisconsin...none.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

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    I wouldn't be so sure... WCI didn't draw the liberal-nut-anti-gun Lynn Adelman.

    I'll post an update and recent documents

    In addition, keep in mind just because a rogue district court judge (cough Lynn Adelman) that issues an unpublished non-binding decision goes out on a limb to profess his personal opinions via his courtroom doesn't mean an appeals court will play along.

    www.wisconsincarry.org Wisconsin Carry, Inc. is not affiliated with opencarry.org or these web forums. Questions about discussion forum policy or forum moderation should be directed to the owners of opencarry.org not Wisconsin Carry, Inc.

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    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. - Chairman wrote:
    I wouldn't be so sure... WCI didn't draw the liberal-nut-anti-gun Lynn Adelman.

    I'll post an update and recent documents

    In addition, keep in mind just because a rogue district court judge (cough Lynn Adelman) that issues an unpublished non-binding decision goes out on a limb to profess his personal opinions via his courtroom doesn't mean an appeals court will play along.
    Absolutley conscidering that a "judge" is to uphold the law, and be unbiased in the decision they cast. well time to vote the types who have a personal agenda out of there. remember the odd district senators are up in wi this year so write them in your district then lobby for or against based on OC and CC as well

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    revolverrandy wrote:
    So how are things looking,realistically,as far as getting the law changed to remove 1000ft within a school zone part?Do you think it will ever happen?

    To be honest,this is the only thing that prevents me many times from open carrying.its the one where you could easily walk into an area an be within 1000 feet and not know it.There are so many schools in most cities and it is not an easy thing to keep straight as far as where they all are.My big fear is abiding by this.I don't want to walk into one,not know it,and get in huge trouble by mistake.If this school zone thing was changed,i be carrying daily.
    You may know this (or not), but the GFSZ does not apply to private property (examples: your home, local stores, gas stations, restaurants not serving alcohol, banks, etc.). So you could be standing right across the street from a school in the Autozone parking lot starring at it and you are fine, just don't go into the sidewalk.

    The GFSZ only applies to public property... walking down the street, in parks, etc.

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    I need to brush up on my statutes before trying this, but I've been contemplating making a case that would completely enclose the gun (zipper or velcro top) that would attach to my belt. I then wouldn't be open carrying in a school zone, but I have concerns about the LEOs thinking this is concealed carry.

    Geoff

    I should add that the firearm MUST be unloaded while encased to not violate the GFSZ.

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    i understand that mugenlude but that still doesn't make me feel any better about going for a walk and coming around a corner to see a school or being in a school zone and not really knowing it.Too easy to make a mistake.

    Geoff,unless i am misunderstanding you,you are basically describing carrying a gun in a gun case while unloaded?

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    Geoff wrote:
    I need to brush up on my statutes before trying this, but I've been contemplating making a case that would completely enclose the gun (zipper or velcro top) that would attach to my belt. I then wouldn't be open carrying in a school zone, but I have concerns about the LEOs thinking this is concealed carry.

    Geoff

    I should add that the firearm MUST be unloaded while encased to not violate the GFSZ.
    § 941.23 Carrying concealed weapon.
    Any person except a peace officer who goes armed with a concealed and dangerous weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor. Notwithstanding s.939.22 (22), for purposes of this section, peace officer does not include a commission warden who is not a state−certified commission warden.
    History: 1977 c. 173; 1979 c. 115, 221; 2007 a. 27.
    [ ... ]
    To “go armed” does not require going anywhere. The elements for a violation of s. 941.23 are: 1) a dangerous weapon is on the defendant’s person or within reach; 2) the defendant is aware of the weapon’s presence; and 3) the weapon is hidden. State v. Keith, 175 Wis. 2d 75, 498 N.W.2d 865 (Ct. App. 1993).
    Like the old maniac Mainer says of § 167.31, "I don't think that you can get there from here."

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    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    Geoff wrote:
    I need to brush up on my statutes before trying this, but I've been contemplating making a case that would completely enclose the gun (zipper or velcro top) that would attach to my belt. I then wouldn't be open carrying in a school zone, but I have concerns about the LEOs thinking this is concealed carry.

    Geoff

    I should add that the firearm MUST be unloaded while encased to not violate the GFSZ.
    § 941.23 Carrying concealed weapon.
    Any person except a peace officer who goes armed with a concealed and dangerous weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor. Notwithstanding s.939.22 (22), for purposes of this section, peace officer does not include a commission warden who is not a state−certified commission warden.
    History: 1977 c. 173; 1979 c. 115, 221; 2007 a. 27.
    [ ...]
    To “go armed” does not require going anywhere. The elements for a violation of s. 941.23 are: 1) a dangerous weapon is on the defendant’s person or within reach; 2) the defendant is aware of the weapon’s presence; and 3) the weapon is hidden. State v. Keith, 175 Wis. 2d 75, 498 N.W.2d 865 (Ct. App. 1993).
    Like the old maniac Mainer says of § 167.31, "I don't think that you can get there from here."
    By that clause we couldn't even park our car in a GFSZ remove our encased and unloaded weapon from our vehicle and walk across the sidewalk onto private property. Or did I miss something here. A gun case is a gun case regardless if it is in your hand oron your hip. Now if it can be considered a holster is another matter all together. I wouldn't know if modifying a case in any way would effect its view as a case or if making it so that it would fit on your hip might make it a holster. Me personally I would think about a clip that can attach it to my belt loop for walking the dog. After all it is hard to hold the weapons case, my dog, and pick up the poo. I am not a lawyer but I just don't see how 941.23 applies to legally encased weapons without effecting the legal way to carry your weapon from your vehicle, across public land in a GFSZ, and onto private property. Furthermore anytime you carry a encased/unloaded weapon by what Doug is quoting then your carrying a concealed weapon? bull

    948.605 (2)
    POSSESSION OF FIREARM IN SCHOOL ZONE. (a) Any individual

    who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual

    knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone is

    guilty of a Class I felony.

    (b) Paragraph (a) does not apply to the possession of a firearm:

    1. On private property not part of school grounds;

    2. If the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so

    by a political subdivision of the state or bureau of alcohol, tobacco

    and firearms in which political subdivision the school zone is

    located, and the law of the political subdivision requires that,

    before an individual may obtain such a license, the law enforcement

    authorities of the political subdivision must verify that the

    individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

    3. That is not loaded and is:

    a. Encased; or

    b. In a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;

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    RevolverRandy, Thats exactly what I'm saying. A firearm in a case attached to my hip w/o a magazine in the gun and w/o a round in the chamer.

    Doug and Cobra, you pointed out exactly what I was thinking. Are you aware of any case law relating to whether or not an encased and unloaded firearm could be considered concealed?

    Geoff

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    Geoff,why would you want to carry a gun in a school zone in this way?It would be pretty much useless and if for some reason you would have to use it in the school zone ,it would probably be an ugly mess.I maybe just don't understand what your goal is.This stuff does get confusing.

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    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    § 941.23 Carrying concealed weapon.
    Any person except a peace officer who goes armed with a concealed and dangerous weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor. Notwithstanding s.939.22 (22), for purposes of this section, peace officer does not include a commission warden who is not a state−certified commission warden.
    History: 1977 c. 173; 1979 c. 115, 221; 2007 a. 27.
    [ ...]
    To “go armed” does not require going anywhere. The elements for a violation of s. 941.23 are: 1) a dangerous weapon is on the defendant’s person or within reach; 2) the defendant is aware of the weapon’s presence; and 3) the weapon is hidden. State v. Keith, 175 Wis. 2d 75, 498 N.W.2d 865 (Ct. App. 1993).
    Like the old maniac Mainer says of § 167.31, "I don't think that you can get there from here."
    State v. Keith, 175 Wis. 2d 75, 498 N.W.2d 865 (Ct. App. 1993) is a citation of case law.

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    if it is ever lifted, i can go across the street to get smokes, without having to fear for my safety!

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    revolverrandy wrote:
    Geoff,why would you want to carry a gun in a school zone in this way?It would be pretty much useless and if for some reason you would have to use it in the school zone ,it would probably be an ugly mess.I maybe just don't understand what your goal is.This stuff does get confusing.
    Randy, This would basically leave me as defenseless as a California resident so the question one would have to ask themself is are you better off with an unloaded firearm that you can load or no firearm at all.

    The reason I'm so interested in this is that I live in a school zone, but walk/jog everywhere that I can. I'd like to be able to carry, but need to get out of the school zone first.

    What confuses me is the idea that somehow a case on my hip is more concealed than carrying in a case in my hand. By Doug's citation they are both concealed, but then again, it is concealed as you put your encased firearm in your trunk too.

    Geoff

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    Geoff wrote:
    What confuses me is the idea that somehow a case on my hip is more concealed than carrying in a case in my hand.
    What "case on [your] hip"? A holster is in no way an encasement.

    It seems that these various statutes are being conflated somehow. Each one stands on its own, there being no mention of the others in anyone.

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    Regular Member Cobra469's Avatar
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    My question is what separates a case from a holster? There are holsters that fully encase a firearm just like they did in WWII with the flap that covers the top? That is what I was asking is if a case can be misconstrued as a holster if it is attached to your hip in a similar fashion. Carrying a encased/unloaded firearm within a GFSZ is perfectly within the law. Just not sure if it were on a hip if it could be classified as a modified case or holster. Anybody know of any statutes that defines a holster? I guess that if it is defined somewhere that might help clarify it.

    I did find the following in a DNR hunting regulations file:

    • transport a handgun in a vehicle unless it is unloaded and completely enclosed
    within a carrying case. Note: A holster is not a legal carrying case unless it completely
    encloses the handgun, so that no part of the handgun is visible.

    http://dnr.wi.gov/org/land/wildlife/regs/SGHunt09.pdf

    Doesn't define a holster but does define a case. I wonder if by that definiation if carry of a unloaded firearm in an old holster that completely covers it would qualify as encased. If that is the case then wouldn't it be reasonable for a modified case to fit on a belt still be a legally encased?

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    To “go armed” does not require going anywhere. The elements for a violation of
    s. 941.23 are: 1) a dangerous weapon is on the defendant’s person or within reach;
    2) the defendant is aware of the weapon’s presence; and 3) the weapon is hidden.
    State v. Keith, 175 Wis. 2d 75, 498 N.W.2d 865 (Ct. App. 1993).

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