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  1. #1
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    VCDL's meeting schedule: http://www.vcdl.org/meetings.html
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Abbreviations used in VA-ALERT: http://www.vcdl.org/help/abbr.html
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Here is an open letter that I have sent to Attorney General
    Cuccinelli. If he would like to respond and defend himself, I will be
    glad to share his response with all 14,000 of you:

    Dear Attorney General Cuccinelli,

    I am very disappointed in your brief filed with the Supreme Court in
    reference to DiGiacinto v the Rector and Visitors of George Mason
    University, which challenges GMU's gun ban in their library and other
    buildings, especially as it applies to a non-student.

    Since GMU is a state entity, I understand that the Virginia Attorney
    General's office has to defend against this lawsuit.

    As a candidate for Attorney General you said at a VCDL meeting on
    December 18th, 2008 that GMU's gun ban was indefensible. (A link to
    the video and a transcript are at the end of this letter.)

    But what is really indefensible is the gratuitous, fear mongering
    aimed at gun owners in that brief.

    I can understand making your argument that the GMU ban is valid based
    on some legal theory, since you are stuck defending GMU. The brief
    does some of that, BUT the brief then goes clean off the reservation
    into a gratuitous attack on gun owners, with a heavy does of fear
    mongering and even squeezes in a Clintonesque "for the children"
    emotional argument:

    "Without the regulation [banning guns], the University community's
    safety is seriously compromised. Unquestionably, the vast majority of
    gun owners are law-abiding citizens. Nevertheless, a rejected student
    applicant could walk into the Dean of Admissions office with an openly
    visible sidearm to discuss why the university rejected his
    application. An expelled student could do the same while he met with
    the Dean of Students to discuss his appeal of his expulsion. A
    disgruntled ex-boyfriend armed with a large hunting knife mounted on
    his side could enter the student residences to speak to his former
    girlfriend where she lived. Finally, any person who wishes to enter
    Fenwick Library with a sidearm, could not only frighten students and
    minors, such as preschoolers, but also expose them to unnecessary
    risks, such as an accidental discharge"

    That looks like something that Sarah Brady would write!

    While you might not feel that you can win his case based on legal
    merits, using made up, emotional scenarios to influence the Supreme
    Court is unconscionable.

    You ran a campaign on putting principles first. But all that fear
    mongering in this brief has nothing to do with principles and
    everything to do with winning the case AT ALL COSTS.

    You were right the first time, Mr. Attorney General: principles DO
    matter and that brief has thrown those principles in the trash.

    Finally, the argument in the brief that colleges and universities are
    "sensitive places" is not tenable. Truly sensitive places would be
    guarded like a fortress - higher education schools are not, with the
    public having easy access to them.

    Here is the brief (the offensive language is on the bottom of page 7
    and top of page 8):

    http://www.virginia1774.org/RVGMUBrief.pdf

    Your statement that GMU's ban is indefensible can be seen and heard by
    skipping forward 5 minutes and 30 seconds into this video:

    http://www.youtube.com/user/vaguninf...20/3bx1ZIusXiU

    Here is a transcript of your comments in the video:

    "I heard the college question - you know, ***they don't have the legal
    authority to pass the regulations they are passing that trump what the
    General Assembly has said.*** Now one way to deal with that is for an
    individual to simply challenge it in court and say, 'Hey, I want to go
    walk at George Mason and this blocks me, so I have standing.' But,
    the problem with doing it at the legislative level is that you have
    got to succeed. Because, and I say, and it sounds funny, but if you
    don't you end up setting the reverse precedent that the courts will
    interpret as meaning taking the side of the university. That's the
    danger we have in that area."



    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    VCDL ACTION ITEM

    Let's contact the Attorney General's office and POLITELY let him know
    that fear mongering against gun owners is not a principle that he
    should be standing on. Click here to go to his web mail address:

    http://www.vaag.com/ContactUsForm/ContactForm.aspx

    Suggested subject: Stick to the law and do not smear gun owners!

    Suggested message:

    Dear Attorney General Cuccinelli,

    I am very disappointed that your brief on DiGiacinto v the Rector and
    Visitors of George Mason University contains gratuitous fear mongering
    against gun owners, even going so far as to say that preschoolers
    would be at RISK from gun owners carrying at a public university! I
    would expect such a low blow from the Brady Campaign, but not an
    Attorney General who ran on principles and being pro-liberty.




    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
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    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

  2. #2
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    This is unacceptable. I was at that VCDL meeting too...

  3. #3
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    Letter sent. Also, you may want to write on his Facebook page. I think that he personally checks his Facebook quite often.

    http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=523714007&ref=ts

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    :shock:

    WHAT THE....






  5. #5
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    It's warm outside, I had a hectic day, then I read this. I think my blood might be boiling.



  6. #6
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    Virginia gun rights leader blasts Cuccinelli over GMU campus gun ban

    To compare arch-conservative Ken Cuccinelli to Sarah Brady, who is virtually seen as the mother of the modern gun-control movement -- now those are practically fighting words among gun owners.

    But that's exactly one of the shots Philip Van Cleave, the president of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, leveled at Attorney General Cuccinelli on Wednesday for the AG's defense of George Mason University's on-campus gun ban.

    Van Cleave's email blast was entitled: "Et tu, Cuccinelli?"

    In an open letter to the AG, Van Cleave criticized the legal brief Cuccinelli's office filed May 20 in Digiacinto v. The Rector and Visitors of George Mason University, a Virginia Supreme Court case concerning GMU's ban on guns in their library and other buildings, especially as it applies to non-students.

    The brief gives a full-throated defense of GMU's right to ban firearms from the campus -- and then some.

    In his letter, Van Cleave reminds the former Republican senator from Fairfax that when he came calling as a candidate at a VCDL meeting, Cuccinelli called the GMU ban "indefensible."

    Although Van Cleave's letter says he was sympathetic to the Attorney General's duty as Virginia's top lawyer to defend the state school in court, Van Cleave also pistol-whips him for some of the brief's rhetorical flourishes, characterizing them as "gratuitous" and "fear-mongering" and even "Clintonesque" for making a " 'for the children' emotional argument."


  7. #7
    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    He also lies in his automated response. I submitted a comment via his web site and got a "my office is looking into this matter" response.

    There is no way he could know what "this matter" is prior to reading the e-mail, so his response cannot be true in all cases.

    Though in this one I imagine his staff is already feeling the heat. He probably isn't -- he's a politician, after all.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

  8. #8
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    hunter45 wrote:
    Letter sent. Also, you may want to write on his Facebook page. I think that he personally checks his Facebook quite often.

    http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...007&ref=ts
    I wrote to him via his personal email and also wrote on his facebook page.
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
    - - - -
    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

  9. #9
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    This really fries me, I personally had to deal with the GMU gun ban version 1.0. The ban is really is an injustice and makes no sense, it is asinine to base rights disenfranchisement on matriculation at a university. Cuccinellis defense of it is lunacy and I surely won't forget it especially come next primary or convention.

    BTW his sticker comes off the truck in the AM. I'll keep the 'don't tread on me part' but does anyone have have an address I can return the rest of his sticker to him at?

  10. #10
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    ed wrote:
    hunter45 wrote:
    Letter sent. Also, you may want to write on his Facebook page. I think that he personally checks his Facebook quite often.

    http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...007&ref=ts
    I wrote to him via his personal email and also wrote on his facebook page.
    Hit his facebook page too.

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    longwatch wrote:
    ed wrote:
    hunter45 wrote:
    Letter sent. Also, you may want to write on his Facebook page. I think that he personally checks his Facebook quite often.

    http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...007&ref=ts
    I wrote to him via his personal email and also wrote on his facebook page.
    Hit his facebook page too.
    I did and I also sent him a message via that site as well.

    He logged on six hours ago, posted he was back from the eastern shore and made no reply to me or in general regarding this.

    I am starting to feel politically naive, something I did not consider myself.

    I guess your never too old to learn something about yourself.



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    I don't do facebook, but my wife does. I know that you can "Friend / un-friend" people... so can you "enemy" people on f/b?

    :P



  13. #13
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Email sent.

    This is so disturbing to me. I thought that in this AG, we finally had a no-nonsense supporter of our state constitution and an ardent defender of our most basic and fundamental freedoms. To see him do a Benedict Arnold on us is, in my opinion, unconscionable and indefensible. And even if he steps back and admits his error, turning his position 180 degrees on this issue, the damage has already been done. It is a one-mistake thing from which he will never recover.

    I had such hopes with this man. To see them dashed hurts and really disappoints me.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  14. #14
    Regular Member streetdoc's Avatar
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    E-mail to the turn-coat sent. When this happens for real, is when I'll support him again.


    'Till the last landings made, and we stand unafraid, on a shore not mortal has seen,
    'Till the last bugle call, sounds taps for us all,
    It's Semper Fidelis, MARINE!

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    Regular Member vt357's Avatar
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    I'm sure I'll catch some flak for this, but I'm not ready to throw Cuccinelli under the bus yet. What was said in the brief was absolutely unacceptable. However, although his name was on the brief, it was signed and probably written by Duncan Gretchell, the state solicitor general.

    And I know we think gun rights are the end-all-be-all, but he's been extremely busy focusing on a couple of big issues right now. Both the Obamacare lawsuit and the global warming investigation at UVA have been getting major press. That combined with that stupid state seal fiasco, Cuccinelli has been super busy. The Obamacare issue directly impacts every person in this state (in the country for that matter) and is an issue of national importance.

    As much as the GMU ban sucks and is unconstitutional, it's not the biggest fish in the pond right now. This doesn't mean that I haven't contacted him about my concerns, but I think it's still possible that he isn't involved much more than being a name on paper. That possibility is still unacceptable, but it's not directly traitorous as everyone is assuming..

    There you go, flame on.

  16. #16
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    vt357 wrote:
    I'm sure I'll catch some flak for this, but I'm not ready to throw Cuccinelli under the bus yet. What was said in the brief was absolutely unacceptable. However, although his name was on the brief, it was signed and probably written by Duncan Gretchell, the state solicitor general.

    And I know we think gun rights are the end-all-be-all, but he's been extremely busy focusing on a couple of big issues right now. Both the Obamacare lawsuit and the global warming investigation at UVA have been getting major press. That combined with that stupid state seal fiasco, Cuccinelli has been super busy. The Obamacare issue directly impacts every person in this state (in the country for that matter) and is an issue of national importance.

    As much as the GMU ban sucks and is unconstitutional, it's not the biggest fish in the pond right now. This doesn't mean that I haven't contacted him about my concerns, but I think it's still possible that he isn't involved much more than being a name on paper. That possibility is still unacceptable, but it's not directly traitorous as everyone is assuming..

    There you go, flame on.
    I certainly hope you're right.

    However, one would think that before he puts his name on something, he had better know what it is. And once he found out, he should immediately make the necessary corrections/adjustments as he knows how this sort of thing is going to be viewed in this state.

    Yes, I do hope you're right.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    vt357 wrote:
    I'm sure I'll catch some flak for this, but I'm not ready to throw Cuccinelli under the bus yet. What was said in the brief was absolutely unacceptable. However, although his name was on the brief, it was signed and probably written by Duncan Gretchell, the state solicitor general.

    And I know we think gun rights are the end-all-be-all, but he's been extremely busy focusing on a couple of big issues right now. Both the Obamacare lawsuit and the global warming investigation at UVA have been getting major press. That combined with that stupid state seal fiasco, Cuccinelli has been super busy. The Obamacare issue directly impacts every person in this state (in the country for that matter) and is an issue of national importance.

    As much as the GMU ban sucks and is unconstitutional, it's not the biggest fish in the pond right now. This doesn't mean that I haven't contacted him about my concerns, but I think it's still possible that he isn't involved much more than being a name on paper. That possibility is still unacceptable, but it's not directly traitorous as everyone is assuming..

    There you go, flame on.
    You're not going to catch any flak from me. I agree 100%. While the wording does concern me, it doesn't enrage me as much as it apparently does VCDL.

    Cuccinelli didn't write that. One of the assistant AG's did. Cuccinelli approved it but I wonder if he even noticed the offending wording?

    Damned if I'm ready to condemn Cuccinelli who has been a good friend to gun owners and Virginians as a whole, while sending a letter of thanks to McDonnell for half assed gestures from the Governors office.

    My response to McDonnell got deleted here in record time (About 30 seconds) Let's see how long this lasts.

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    peter nap wrote
    You're not going to catch any flak from me. I agree 100%. While the wording does concern me, it doesn't enrage me as much as it apparently does VCDL.

    Cuccinelli didn't write that. One of the assistant AG's did. Cuccinelli approved it but I wonder if he even noticed the offending wording?

    Damned if I'm ready to condemn Cuccinelli who has been a good friend to gun owners and Virginians as a whole, while sending a letter of thanks to McDonnell for half assed gestures from the Governors office.

    My response to McDonnell got deleted here in record time (About 30 seconds) Let's see how long this lasts.
    Well, your post is still here 45 minutes later - so that is a good sign.

    What would you consider a "full-assed" gesture by McDonnell, if repealing the restaurant ban and improving vehicle carry are half-assed?

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    Granted I'm no mind reader, but I'd guess that the "half-assed" work includes the fact that we have no directed change in State Park, DGIF, State Forest and National Forest carry rules since they do not comply with state law as opined by the current governor.

    I would like to see the changes sooner than later, but Iwill wait for them, but I'm hoping we don't have to wait years for the governor to push for these changes.

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    Regarding Cuccinelli I'm in agreement that as GMU's legal representative in Commonwealth government, he (or his staff) has an obligation to to his client (GMU) to make the arguments that they want to pursue. If that means making ludicrous statements about gun owners, oh well.



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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    VCDL President wrote:
    peter nap wrote
    You're not going to catch any flak from me. I agree 100%. While the wording does concern me, it doesn't enrage me as much as it apparently does VCDL.

    Cuccinelli didn't write that. One of the assistant AG's did. Cuccinelli approved it but I wonder if he even noticed the offending wording?

    Damned if I'm ready to condemn Cuccinelli who has been a good friend to gun owners and Virginians as a whole, while sending a letter of thanks to McDonnell for half assed gestures from the Governors office.

    My response to McDonnell got deleted here in record time (About 30 seconds) Let's see how long this lasts.
    Well, your post is still here 45 minutes later - so that is a good sign.

    What would you consider a "full-assed" gesture by McDonnell, if repealing the restaurant ban and improving vehicle carry are half-assed?
    The Restaurant ban was old news. It had been repeatedly passed by the GA and Vetoed by Saint Tim. Vetoing it would have set the stage for a stormy term of biblical proportions.

    The vehicle carry was a little surprising, but it appears to be a bone thrown for future brownie points. It didn't really draw much fire from the State Police who are the loudest voice in those things and was only a baby step above the locked container bill which would have been practically unenforceable anyway. (Lots of time to slam the lid before pulling over)

    VDOF would go a long way in my opinion.

    When and if, he intercedes in VDOF...I'll thank him.

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    jmelvin wrote:
    Regarding Cuccinelli I'm in agreement that as GMU's legal representative in Commonwealth government, he (or his staff) has an obligation to to his client (GMU) to make the arguments that they want to pursue. If that means making ludicrous statements about gun owners, oh well.

    Ends justifies the means? The anti-gunners use that philosophy all the time.

  23. #23
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    If as AG he (orhis office)is to represent the interests of his clients in court(state departments, agencies, etc.) then his job entails making the arguments they seek, which may include the ludicrous statements. If you don't want the possibility that you'll have to make ludicrous arguments on behalf of your client, don't take on the client (i.e., don't run for the AG job).

    If I misunderstand the role of the AG as legal representative of the state and its agencies then please correct me. Further if the AG is given lattitude in the means in which he may pursue a case (perhaps even against the wishes of the client) then the statement made is inexcusable.

  24. #24
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    jmelvin wrote:
    If as AG he (orhis office)is to represent the interests of his clients in court (state departments, agencies, etc.) then his job entails making the arguments they seek, which may include the ludicrous statements. If you don't want the possibility that you'll have to make ludicrous arguments on behalf of your client, don't take on the client (i.e., don't run for the AG job).

    If I misunderstand the role of the AG as legal representative of the state and its agencies then please correct me. Further if the AG is given lattitude in the means in which he may pursue a case (perhaps even against the wishes of the client) then the statement made is inexcusable.
    He swore to uphold the Constitution and he is also supposed to protect the interest of the citizens of Virginia.

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    Understood. How then do you represent the interests of a state agency that is bent on ignoring such? I suppose the greater obligation is then to the Constitution (we know that it is).

    It is my perception that the whole reason Mr. Cuccinelli is being taken to task by some is because of some of the wording he used when representing a state agency bent on ignoring the Constitution. This is non-sensical, when, if his greater obligation as AGis to the Constitution, he should be taken to task for representing position of the state agency, which seeks to violate the Constitution. The wording used is only peripheral at that point.

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