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Thread: Age to own/purchase an AR15 in Va

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    I was in a recent discussion with an individual and go into a debate of minimum age to buy and/or posses an AR15. Basically my understanding is/was that if you are 18 you can legally buy and/or posses an AR15 as it is considered a long gun. His stance is no as he was at a shop where they would not sell an AR to anyone under 21.

    I told him that may be a rule or stipulation of the shop, but federal law seems to only specify 18 and I am not aware of any Va laws that say other wise. The only restriction for 21 I am aware of is for an FFL to sell a handgun to an individual.

    Mainly I am looking at § 18.2-308.7 is my interpretation of this correct?

    Thanks in advance guys.

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    Regular Member Riana's Avatar
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    Thndr wrote:
    I was in a recent discussion with an individual and go into a debate of minimum age to buy and/or posses an AR15. Basically my understanding is/was that if you are 18 you can legally buy and/or posses an AR15 as it is considered a long gun. His stance is no as he was at a shop where they would not sell an AR to anyone under 21.

    I told him that may be a rule or stipulation of the shop, but federal law seems to only specify 18 and I am not aware of any Va laws that say other wise. The only restriction for 21 I am aware of is for an FFL to sell a handgun to an individual.

    Mainly I am looking at § 18.2-308.7 is my interpretation of this correct?

    Thanks in advance guys.
    It's not a Federal thing - it's a Virginia thing.

    I believe that if the gun is defined as an "Assault Weapon" under Virginia law, then you have to be 21 to purchase it. If it has a folding stock, a magazine capacity of more than 20 rounds, or can handle a suppressor, it's considered an assault weapon.

    I don't have a cite. I'm just going on recollection from conversations at the shop.

    Edit: Found it:

    § 18.2-308.2:01. Possession or transportation of certain firearms by certain persons.

    A. It shall be unlawful for any person who is not a citizen of the United States or who is not a person lawfully admitted for permanent residence to knowingly and intentionally possess or transport any assault firearm or to knowingly and intentionally carry about his person, hidden from common observation, an assault firearm.

    B. It shall be unlawful for any person who is not a citizen of the United States and who is not lawfully present in the United States to knowingly and intentionally possess or transport any firearm or to knowingly and intentionally carry about his person, hidden from common observation, any firearm. A violation of this section shall be punishable as a Class 6 felony.

    C. For purposes of this section, "assault firearm" means any semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine which will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock.

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    Riana wrote:
    Thndr wrote:
    I was in a recent discussion with an individual and go into a debate of minimum age to buy and/or posses an AR15. Basically my understanding is/was that if you are 18 you can legally buy and/or posses an AR15 as it is considered a long gun. His stance is no as he was at a shop where they would not sell an AR to anyone under 21.

    I told him that may be a rule or stipulation of the shop, but federal law seems to only specify 18 and I am not aware of any Va laws that say other wise. The only restriction for 21 I am aware of is for an FFL to sell a handgun to an individual.

    Mainly I am looking at § 18.2-308.7 is my interpretation of this correct?

    Thanks in advance guys.
    It's not a Federal thing - it's a Virginia thing.

    I believe that if the gun is defined as an "Assault Weapon" under Virginia law, then you have to be 21 to purchase it. If it has a folding stock, a magazine capacity of more than 20 rounds, or can handle a suppressor, it's considered an assault weapon.

    I don't have a cite. I'm just going on recollection from conversations at the shop.

    Edit: Found it:

    § 18.2-308.2:01. Possession or transportation of certain firearms by certain persons.

    A. It shall be unlawful for any person who is not a citizen of the United States or who is not a person lawfully admitted for permanent residence to knowingly and intentionally possess or transport any assault firearm or to knowingly and intentionally carry about his person, hidden from common observation, an assault firearm.

    B. It shall be unlawful for any person who is not a citizen of the United States and who is not lawfully present in the United States to knowingly and intentionally possess or transport any firearm or to knowingly and intentionally carry about his person, hidden from common observation, any firearm. A violation of this section shall be punishable as a Class 6 felony.

    C. For purposes of this section, "assault firearm" means any semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine which will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock.
    VA state law says that those under age 18 cannot purchase or possess handguns or "assault firearms" (with a few exceptions). I don't see anything that would prohibit a dealer from selling a "complete" AR15 "Rifle" to someone 18-20. AR "pistols" and "stripped lowers" you need to be 21 due to federal law.


    § 18.2-308.7. Possession or transportation of certain firearms by persons under the age of 18; penalty.
    It shall be unlawful for any person under 18 years of age to knowingly and intentionally possess or transport a handgun or assault firearm anywhere in the Commonwealth. For the purposes of this section, "handgun" means any pistol or revolver or other firearm originally designed, made and intended to fire single or multiple projectiles by means of an explosion of a combustible material from one or more barrels when held in one hand and "assault firearm" means any (i) semi-automatic centerfire rifle or pistol which expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine which will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock or (ii) shotgun with a magazine which will hold more than seven rounds of the longest ammunition for which it is chambered. A violation of this section shall be a Class 1 misdemeanor.
    This section shall not apply to:
    1. Any person (i) while in his home or on his property; (ii) while in the home or on the property of his parent, grandparent, or legal guardian; or (iii) while on the property of another who has provided prior permission, and with the prior permission of his parent or legal guardian if the person has the landowner's written permission on his person while on such property;
    2. Any person who, while accompanied by an adult, is at, or going to and from, a lawful shooting range or firearms educational class, provided that the weapons are unloaded while being transported;
    3. Any person actually engaged in lawful hunting or going to and from a hunting area or preserve, provided that the weapons are unloaded while being transported; and
    4. Any person while carrying out his duties in the Armed Forces of the United States or the National Guard of this Commonwealth or any other state.
    (1993, cc. 467, 494; 2003, c. 976; 2004, c. 995.)

    § 18.2-309. Furnishing certain weapons to minors; penalty.
    A. If any person sells, barters, gives or furnishes, or causes to be sold, bartered, given or furnished, to any minor a dirk, switchblade knife or bowie knife, having good cause to believe him to be a minor, such person shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
    B. If any person sells, barters, gives or furnishes, or causes to be sold, bartered, given or furnished, to any minor a handgun, having good cause to believe him to be a minor, such person shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony. This subsection shall not apply to any transfer made between family members or for the purpose of engaging in a sporting event or activity.
    (Code 1950, § 18.1-344; 1960, c. 358; 1975, cc. 14, 15; 1992, c. 487; 1993, c. 855.)

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    Founder's Club Member longwatch's Avatar
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    Nothing in Virginia law prohibits an 18 year old from purchasing or possessing an 'assault firearm'. They may not carry it loaded in certain localities but neither can any other citizens except CHP holders (see Section 18.2-287.4).

    However, folks under 21 may not buy AR lowers, due to federal law which only allows folks under 21 to purchase from dealers "rifles" and "shotguns". A lower receiver is a firearm but not a rifle or shotgun.
    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18...2----000-.html
    (b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver— (1) any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than eighteen years of age, and, if the firearm, or ammunition is other than a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or rifle, to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than twenty-one years of age;


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    longwatch wrote:
    Nothing in Virginia law prohibits an 18 year old from purchasing or possessing an 'assault firearm'. They may not carry it loaded in certain localities but neither can any other citizens except CHP holders (see Section 18.2-287.4).

    However, folks under 21 may not buy AR lowers, due to federal law which only allows folks under 21 to purchase from dealers "rifles" and "shotguns". A lower receiver is a firearm but not a rifle or shotgun.
    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18...2----000-.html
    (b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver— (1) any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than eighteen years of age, and, if the firearm, or ammunition is other than a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or rifle, to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than twenty-one years of age;
    So if you are 18 you can buy a complete AR but not a lower????

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    richarcm wrote:
    longwatch wrote:
    Nothing in Virginia law prohibits an 18 year old from purchasing or possessing an 'assault firearm'. They may not carry it loaded in certain localities but neither can any other citizens except CHP holders (see Section 18.2-287.4).

    However, folks under 21 may not buy AR lowers, due to federal law which only allows folks under 21 to purchase from dealers "rifles" and "shotguns". A lower receiver is a firearm but not a rifle or shotgun.
    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18...2----000-.html
    (b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver— (1) any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than eighteen years of age, and, if the firearm, or ammunition is other than a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or rifle, to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than twenty-one years of age;
    So if you are 18 you can buy a complete AR but not a lower????
    Yes - the reason is that a lower could be made into a pistol - which it would not be legal for a dealer to sell to someone under 21. At least, that what I have been lead to believe.



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    Yes. Crazy but true.

    A rifle is a longgun and can be purchased by anyone 18 yrs old or older.

    A lower (complete or stripped) is a lower. And on the 4473 Federally it's an 'other' and requires the person to be 21yrs old or older. 'Other' is receivers and also used for sound suppressors, AOWs, DDs etc all of which require the person filling out the forms to be 21yrs old or older.
    armorer & notary public for VA Arms Co FFL/SOT
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    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    These geniuses don't realize that an AR can be broken down instantly? That's just plain retarded.

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    I was thinking that was correct. I can see where some of the confusion is.

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    richarcm wrote:
    These geniuses don't realize that an AR can be broken down instantly? That's just plain retarded.
    Since we are speaking about gun control and BATFE interpretation you are being redundant.
    fg an bealach
    ACTA NON VERBA
    At OCDO there are two things that are not tolerated, open carry intolerance and long gun open carry.
    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitableand let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come . PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Purchase and posess are two different things. My 14 year old broke no Virginia law in open carrying a Mossberg 500, or any other long gun. No minimum age in the Commonwealth for carrying an AR 15. (Not all AR 15s are assault rifles).
    fg an bealach
    ACTA NON VERBA
    At OCDO there are two things that are not tolerated, open carry intolerance and long gun open carry.
    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitableand let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come . PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    gotm4 wrote:
    Yes. Crazy but true.

    A rifle is a longgun and can be purchased by anyone 18 yrs old or older.

    A lower (complete or stripped) is a lower. And on the 4473 Federally it's an 'other' and requires the person to be 21yrs old or older. 'Other' is receivers and also used for sound suppressors, AOWs, DDs etc all of which require the person filling out the forms to be 21yrs old or older.
    I read that this is because federal law basically sets the min. age for purchasing firearms at 21, but makes an exception for rifles and shotguns specifically, for those age 18+. Since rifles and shotguns are "to be fired from the shoulder", a person who is 18 can't even buy a shotgun that only has a pistol grip on it, since it isn't fired from the shoulder. Dealers can sell the shotgun with a shoulder stock and the buyer can install a pistol grip after they take possession with no problem.

    gun laws...make tons of sense, don't they?

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    nova wrote:
    gun laws...make tons of sense, don't they?
    In the same sense that they stop crime.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

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    nova wrote:
    gotm4 wrote:
    Yes. Crazy but true.

    A rifle is a longgun and can be purchased by anyone 18 yrs old or older.

    A lower (complete or stripped) is a lower. And on the 4473 Federally it's an 'other' and requires the person to be 21yrs old or older. 'Other' is receivers and also used for sound suppressors, AOWs, DDs etc all of which require the person filling out the forms to be 21yrs old or older.
    I read that this is because federal law basically sets the min. age for purchasing firearms at 21, but makes an exception for rifles and shotguns specifically, for those age 18+. Since rifles and shotguns are "to be fired from the shoulder", a person who is 18 can't even buy a shotgun that only has a pistol grip on it, since it isn't fired from the shoulder. Dealers can sell the shotgun with a shoulder stock and the buyer can install a pistol grip after they take possession with no problem.

    gun laws...make tons of sense, don't they?
    Correct. A pistol gripped shotgun without a shoulder stock is an 'other' on the 4473 but it's a shotgun on the SP65.
    armorer & notary public for VA Arms Co FFL/SOT
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    Regular Member ChinChin's Avatar
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    richarcm wrote:
    So if you are 18 you can buy a complete AR but not a lower????
    If you enlist you can get the whole damn thing at once. You just have to give it back after 4 years.
    The problem with the internet is nobody can really tell when youre serious and when youre being sarcastic. Abraham Lincoln

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    Devil's Advocate: Hmm, given that modern gun powder doesn't explode, doesn't that mean § 18.2-308.2:01. is kinda useless?
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    Hell, if you enlist you might get a whole *BELT-FED* MACHINEGUN!!!


    To reiterate, gun laws are silly.

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    Silly, arbitrary, deliberate and essential to the enforcers and political elite maintaining their illegally assumed authority over the People.

    But they won't take all of our guns away, because as long as we have our guns we can prevent them from really abusing their power. Right?
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    ...And if you enlist and re-enlist a few times, you could possibly end up having had more firearms come into and out of your posession than you ever dreamed of when you were 18... I sure did. Retired after 22 years working on military ordnance and saw more small arms, machine guns and cannons than I ever thought I would...
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

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    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    State Researcher dng's Avatar
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    You must be 21 in VA to purchase an "assault rifle" as the gun control likes to call them and you must have 3 forms of ID. Not 100% sure, but I think driver's license, passport, social security card, birth certificate, hunting license, piece of mail with your name and address to enstablish residency will all work.

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    Founder's Club Member longwatch's Avatar
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    dng wrote:
    You must be 21 in VA to purchase an "assault rifle" as the gun control likes to call them and you must have 3 forms of ID. Not 100% sure, but I think driver's license, passport, social security card, birth certificate, hunting license, piece of mail with your name and address to enstablish residency will all work.
    Wrong. There is no law that says an 18 year old Virginian cannot purchase an assault firearm. He can even carry it so long as he isn't in one of the prohibited localities.

    The proof of legal presence requirement means one must produce on of the following documents. A certified birth certificate , a certificate of citizenship or a certificate of naturalization , an unexpired U.S. passport, a United States citizen identification card (not issued anymore), a current voter registration card, a current selective service registration card, or a Green Card.

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...d+18.2-308.2C2

    Social security cards are not valid IDs nor is just a piece of mail with you name on it.



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    State Researcher dng's Avatar
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    Good catch, thank you! I don't know why I said 21. Code section 18.2-308.7

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...cod+18.2-308.7

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    You don't even need three forms of ID if your second form is already a current voter registration card.

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    Regular Member Riana's Avatar
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    dng wrote:
    You must be 21 in VA to purchase an "assault rifle" as the gun control likes to call them and you must have 3 forms of ID. Not 100% sure, but I think driver's license, passport, social security card, birth certificate, hunting license, piece of mail with your name and address to enstablish residency will all work.
    Actually, you *can* do it with two. One form of photo ID (usually your DL), and a second ID such as CHP, voter's card, hunting/fishing license, etc. is required for a regular purchase. For an assault weapon," you need something proving citizenship or (for non-citizens) permanent residence - a voter's card will satisfy that requirement.

    If you use your voter's card as your second ID, then you only need 2 IDs.

    ETA: Dang, Nova types faster than I do...

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