View Poll Results: Overall are we more united than divided?

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  • Yes, most of the time.

    9 24.32%
  • Sometimes, but it varies by topic.

    19 51.35%
  • No, most of the time we have members bickering.

    9 24.32%
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Thread: Poll on unity or division in our group

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    I am newer, but have noticed a lot of public infighting in this forum. Just my observation.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

  2. #2
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    Rifle carry.

    Nuff' said.

    -Richard-

  3. #3
    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
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    To me, it seems like the bickering has increased ten fold in like the last 6 months to a year. I don't remember it being this bad a year ago.
    All opinions posted on opencarry.org are my own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of opencarry.org or Michigan Open Carry Inc.

  4. #4
    Regular Member anetsprungen's Avatar
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    How do you define "our group"?

    This is a sub-forum of Michigan-interested subscribers, to a national forum of open carry-interested subscribers.

    The demographics are subject to change as more people learn about OCDO and the Michigan forums. It has been my observation that the younger generations are much more undisciplined and without restraint, thereby making them more prone to "bickering". Younger people have a higher incidence of poking, prodding, and saying whatever comes to mind. Contentious interaction seems to be what they thrive on.

    In my opinion, the poll is meaningless as currently stated.

    After just three months of participation and 50+ years old, I used to be concerned about the so-called bickering and personal attacks, but I have concluded it is the way young people communicate. Between what I see online and in everyday life in my community, respect for others seems to have become a dying art, to be ignored as an anachronism of the past.

    There will always be a percentage of any group who are disrespectful of others' thoughts and opinions. And for the greater majority, writing is not their preferred method of communicating. Writing, itself, is becoming a lost art.

    But at least people keep trying. The naysayers just become so much static noise that need to be ignored and filtered out.

    My two cents worth.


    Roy
    Roy Sprunger
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    Michigan Open Carry, Inc.

  5. #5
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    anetsprungen - I tend to agree with you that the bickering has increased lately. I also try to ignore it for the most part but the depressing thing to me is that this country has become a country of hypocrites and negativity. I am not talking about just gun topics but almost everything. I used to enjoy going to football games but that is almost a chore now to sit and listen to comments from those around. The biggest thing that I notice anymore is that seldom after a game any more do you hear 'We Won", rather the cheer seems to be "You Lost". You tune into a sports call in show and you don't hear how one team played great to win but how sorry the other team played to lose.

    I ran across this definition of "Bible Thumper"on the Urban Dictionary and realized that it applies to so many more situations now than just religion.
    One who uses the Bible to attack/defame others' characters instead of as a guide to proper living. These people tend to be depressingly ignorant of anything else except the Bible and behavior as expected by the religious.
    We have people on this forum that search for some detail to put someone else down in almost every post no matter if it is about gun brand, caliber, holster, OC vs. CC or anything else.

    One more definition from the UB that fits this site: Hypocrisy- A crime that everyone besides me should be punished for.

  6. #6
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    G9MMOS,

    To answer your question you needonly look at your gathering in Taylor for the answer.



    We'relike family here, sometimes we argue and fight, BUT WE ALWAYS STAND TOGETHER AGAINST THE ENEMY!

  7. #7
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    dougwg wrote:
    G9MMOS,

    To answer your question you needonly look at your gathering in Taylor for the answer.



    We'relike family here, sometimes we argue and fight, BUT WE ALWAYS STAND TOGETHER AGAINST THE ENEMY!
    I agree with Doug!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  8. #8
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    dougwg wrote:
    G9MMOS,

    To answer your question you needonly look at your gathering in Taylor for the answer.

    We'relike family here, sometimes we argue and fight, BUT WE ALWAYS STAND TOGETHER AGAINST THE ENEMY!
    +1

    I've been around these guys and galsonline and at gatherings going into my third year of active OC'ing. Doug is correct. This leads me to believe that, since almost all here are so nice in person, a lot ofposts that seem "negative" really need to be given a lot of benefit of a positive assumption. The problem with the written word is that you have no facial or body language or tone of voiceto convey the senses of humor, irony, witty sarcasm, etc. Of course, it always helps if the writer uses emoticons ("smileys"), so there's a suggestion for many of you!
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    DanM wrote:
    dougwg wrote:
    G9MMOS,

    To answer your question you needonly look at your gathering in Taylor for the answer.

    We'relike family here, sometimes we argue and fight, BUT WE ALWAYS STAND TOGETHER AGAINST THE ENEMY!
    +1

    I've been around these guys and galsonline and at gatherings going into my third year of active OC'ing. Doug is correct. This leads me to believe that, since almost all here are so nice in person, a lot ofposts that seem "negative" really need to be given a lot of benefit of a positive assumption. The problem with the written word is that you have no facial or body language or tone of voiceto convey the senses of humor, irony, witty sarcasm, etc. Of course, it always helps if the writer uses emoticons ("smileys"), so there's a suggestion for many of you!
    +1000 The whole point of this poll/post was to get members thinking like the two above posts.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

  10. #10
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    How to say this......... ummmmmmmm....

    If we all "got along" we would have the Borg collective... or, said another way, we would have what the Socialists want. "We the people" would be "us the anthill".

    Screw that!
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Bikenut wrote:
    How to say this......... ummmmmmmm....

    If we all "got along" we would have the Borg collective... or, said another way, we would have what the Socialists want. "We the people" would be "us the anthill".

    Screw that!
    Understood, the point is to disagree in a respectful way. If we all want the same thing ( OC & 2A rights ) that should be easy correct? "We the people" need to remember many from the "other side of the issue" peak in on us to see what we are doing. They can't read PM's, now can they?:?
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

  12. #12
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Glock9mmOldStyle wrote:
    Bikenut wrote:
    How to say this......... ummmmmmmm....

    If we all "got along" we would have the Borg collective... or, said another way, we would have what the Socialists want. "We the people" would be "us the anthill".

    Screw that!
    Understood, the point is to disagree in a respectful way. If we all want the same thing ( OC & 2A rights ) that should be easy correct? "We the people" need to remember many from the "other side of the issue" peak in on us to see what we are doing. They can't read PM's, now can they?:?
    I agree that intelligent adults disagree in a respectful manner. I also understand that not everyone on this forum is a mature adult regardless of how old they are.

    What to do about those who insist on name calling and personal attacks? Don't respond to them in the same manner... respond as a mature adult.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  13. #13
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    This poll is exceedingly vague. Who is "we", and on which topic are you querying the level of perceived unity?


  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    CoonDog wrote:
    This poll is exceedingly vague. Who is "we", and on which topic are you querying the level of perceived unity?
    Well we are in an OC forum, so I guess "we" would be OCers .

    The point was to get more people here thinking before they reply to others & if a conversation can't be civil take it off the board and go to PM's. Make any more sense now Dog? There are many watching this board just looking for something to use against the OC movement :?! Sadly we all too often provide it for them.

    IMHO.

    - G9mmOS
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    G9, thank-you for the reply.

    Like any community, we're going to have differences of opinion and many various aspects of firearms. I don't see disagreements as a detriment, but rather a boon to thoughtful discussion. But I agree with you that petty bickering has no place in adult conversation. Rather, I'd hope that we'd acknowledge disagreements as an opportunity to share a differing viewpoint with others.

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    +1
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

  17. #17
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    Glock9mmOldStyle wrote:
    DanM wrote:
    dougwg wrote:
    G9MMOS,

    To answer your question you needonly look at your gathering in Taylor for the answer.

    We'relike family here, sometimes we argue and fight, BUT WE ALWAYS STAND TOGETHER AGAINST THE ENEMY!
    +1

    I've been around these guys and galsonline and at gatherings going into my third year of active OC'ing. Doug is correct. This leads me to believe that, since almost all here are so nice in person, a lot ofposts that seem "negative" really need to be given a lot of benefit of a positive assumption. The problem with the written word is that you have no facial or body language or tone of voiceto convey the senses of humor, irony, witty sarcasm, etc. Of course, it always helps if the writer uses emoticons ("smileys"), so there's a suggestion for many of you!
    +1000 The whole point of this poll/post was to get members thinking like the two above posts.
    thought : Ken owns Lawnmower and bike ? Barbie owns Every Thing ? and its PINK !

  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    taxwhat - is this just a random thought or are you implying something there? I bring it up do to the use of quoted text.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

  19. #19
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    malignity wrote:
    To me, it seems like the bickering has increased ten fold in like the last 6 months to a year. I don't remember it being this bad a year ago.
    I would say it depends. I've talked about this before, but I think it bears repeating.

    The old timers and would have been old timersif they had handguns or knew about it, that crowd always has been fairly united and probably always will be. These are the folks who are very freedom driven, typically fairly couragous and highly supportive of whatever someone wants to do as long as it's safe and legal.

    The animosity I think mostlystems from the newer folks who I call "bandwagon jumpers" who are only involved now because it has been proven it can be done. I have nothing against being a bandwagon jumper, but it's important for people who fit this description to know that that's what they are, and for them to accordingly acknowledge that they are following iconoclastic examples, and not try to start a bunch of crap, attempting to become leaders in the process, bossing people around about things that a freedom driven person would see as a personal choice issue not to be concerned with. This is the root cause of most of the idiotic bickering that I have noticed.

    Sadly,some people make guns into an issue of manliness and machismo. This pretty much never applies to the act ofcarrying itself, but it seems all too many chotches within the gun community love to rattle off often meaningless, falseor useless credentials and turn the issue of self defense into a dick swinging contest in conversation and forum posts. Many of these people I would define as a sub category of band wagon jumpers. They are another reason why the glory days of almost complete unity within this group are not coming back.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  20. #20
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    Glock9mmOldStyle wrote:
    taxwhat - is this just a random thought or are you implying something there? I bring it up do to the use of quoted text.
    Thought :Good or bad = just a doll = Pepito bismol doll = role model = When I grow up I want to LOOK just like her ?

  21. #21
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    I disagree.

  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    sevenplusone wrote:
    I disagree.
    With? :?
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

  23. #23
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    Seriously now....

    I think this is one of the more unified 2A rights organizations out there.

    The only reason some of the bickering and arguments go on is because you are dealing with a group of passionate people who are passionate about their 2A rights. If they were not passionate they would let others do the work for them and just conceal their firearm, vote once a year,and call it a day. This group is not that way. They see something for how it is, compare that to how it should be and how they want it to be, and then try to change it. That is ultimately what brings us together is that we have a common goal. While we may sometimes disagree on the means to that end it is not because we dislike the other person or legitimately take issue with their stance, it's because we ourselves are just as passionate as they are.

    When issues come up, we come together. That is the bottom line.

    Defining the group is slightly more difficult and I will not even try to do that. I know what it is and means to me, but my answer may very well be different from yours.

  24. #24
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    Glock9mmOldStyle wrote:
    sevenplusone wrote:
    I disagree.
    With? :?
    Everything.

    It was a sad attempt at humor.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Slave's Avatar
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    I agree that there is a lot of fighitng around here, I know I diagree with most of the political Obama bashing that crops up.

    One other thing I noticed, when help is needed, these people band together quit and put up and shut up.

    In the end, on these boards fighting, in real life, it's all support.

    Love it here.

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