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Arrest and Dismissal of Disorderly Conduct Charges for Open Carry

Rich B

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Edward Peruta wrote:
At this point I told the male that he would have to leave because people were getting upset and uncomfortable.  The male agreed and went outside and sat on a bench outside and said that he would wait for the Police

And not that it is a big deal, but again, the truth of the matter is that the owner seemed bewildered and confused and did not get the chance to ask me to leave. I told him as soon as he came over (maybe 30 seconds after Mr. Vanaham's tantrum) that I would leave.

That being said, I can understand the confusion and haze many people probably have from that night. I certainly don't remember every single thing said to me verbatim in the two hours, but I am sure of these things. It also really doesn't matter who spoke first since I was within the law regardless. Just like to see the truth rise to the top.
 

lcatct

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While I think we all agree this was not a perfect experience, look how far we've come in CT since James Goldberg's experience in just a few years!

While he was arrested (completely without justification, mind you), he is already cleared of all charges, didn't have his pistol permit illegally seized and revoked, and received his weapon back, sounds like on the same night after being arrested. As opposed to having your permit seized, waiting years for an appeal to the board, fighting lingering criminal charges, and having your weapon destroyed, this is huge.

Well done!
 

GoldCoaster

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Agreed, this has been an interesting (for me) journey watching how things unfolded (and in the case of the charges unraveled).

I agree with you Rich that the aggressor is a problem and will likely remain one, if he is willing to cause these disturbances after being told they are legal then he will hopefully find himself on the end of a judge's wrath for wasting police time or filing false reports.

I'm sure there is going to be more coming out, I sure hope so and that the aggressor winds up with more than a smack on the wrist.

Thanks to you for doing the right thing, and also keeping us informed about it. Thanks also to Ed for spending your time helping all of us with our rights.

Good to have you back in the state again.
 

Rich B

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lcatct wrote:
While I think we all agree this was not a perfect experience, look how far we've come in CT since James Goldberg's experience in just a few years!

While he was arrested (completely without justification, mind you), he is already cleared of all charges, didn't have his pistol permit illegally seized and revoked, and received his weapon back, sounds like on the same night after being arrested.  As opposed to having your permit seized, waiting years for an appeal to the board, fighting lingering criminal charges, and having your weapon destroyed, this is huge.

Well done!

Thank you, but we have a lot of work to do. They never even talked to me before taking my firearm and handcuffing me. Even when I was in handcuffs I was ignored and treated like a criminal.

Their only reasoning for this was that they were sure that open carry was illegal. I was originally to be charged for breach of peace, but when I was being booked the police apparently found out I was right and they were wrong. The police don't seem to want anyone to know this, because one of Officer Flood's reports states that I asked what I was being arrested for when they placed me in handcuffs and that they told me 'Disorderly Conduct'. This is a lie. I was told 'Breach of Peace' for carrying a firearm openly.

I told them that would not work and that they would all be in a lot of legal trouble should they choose to pursue that. I was told again I was being arrested for breach of peace when Officer Garcia was about to transport me. I was only informed of 'Disorderly Conduct' while I was being booked and Officer Garcia tried to get me to consent to waive my rights. I asked him what I was being charged for , if anything, and he replied 'Disorderly Conduct'. I told him "No thanks, I will not be waiving any rights today." and I clammed up about the incident. I was far too confused about why the charge had changed and what possible reason they were coming up with for charging me with disorderly conduct. I asked them if they had heard about the James Goldberg case and what happened to Glastonbury PD when I was on the scene, but they informed me they had no idea what I was talking about.

So there is a lot to be fixed still. GunTotingLawyer is absolutely right. They really messed this up, right from their very first contact. Mr. Vanaham should have been arrested that night, not me. Hopefully we are fixing this little issue.

Don't look at this as proof of some big step. I would say this is a baby step from the James Goldberg case. We will have made real progress when the police take our side on scene instead of a criminal's simply because we are polite and professional and completely within the confines of the law.
 

dadpharm

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Just asking for trouble and it does nothing to build trust so that we can open carry without people being afraid. I open carry when I visit my daughter in Indiana and have been asked only one time to conceal as some elderly folks were upset. Went to the car and concealed the weapon. Not a big deal and no confrontation.Could have saved yourself, the police an d the owner a lot of trouble just for pride and stuborness
 

GoldCoaster

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dadpharm wrote:
Just asking for trouble and it does nothing to build trust so that we can open carry without people being afraid. I open carry when I visit my daughter in Indiana and have been asked only one time to conceal as some elderly folks were upset. Went to the car and concealed the weapon. Not a big deal and no confrontation.Could have saved yourself, the police an d the owner a lot of trouble just for pride and stuborness
Yeah he could have just not bothered to carry at all, or perhaps not gone to play pool, or gone out with his girlfriend at all - he'd have avoided the whole incident completely right?

I don't know what is worse, permit-holders who are anti 2A or the general public who are uninformed about it. At least the general public can be educated.. the anti-2A permit holders seemed to be the most intransigent.

Rich - just got through reading your pdf, very good reading and I'd believe your side of it based on the level of detail than the ass-covering version the WPD put together.
 

ManInBlack

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dadpharm wrote:
Just asking for trouble and it does nothing to build trust so that we can open carry without people being afraid. I open carry when I visit my daughter in Indiana and have been asked only one time to conceal as some elderly folks were upset. Went to the car and concealed the weapon. Not a big deal and no confrontation.Could have saved yourself, the police an d the owner a lot of trouble just for pride and stuborness

troll.jpg
 

dadpharm

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oR HE COULD HAVE CARRIED CONCEALED AND NOT BEEN SUCH AN ASS.As far as being anti 2nd amendment just who are you referring to? Not me as I have been active in SC to protect those rights. People who do what we are discussing only hurt the cause . Over and out.
 

Rich B

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GoldCoaster wrote:
the anti-2A permit holders seemed to be the most intransigent.
Indeed, it appears Mr. Vanaham has learned nothing from lying on a sworn statements to the police and having someone falsely arrested, and I would bet he goes around telling everyone he supports the Second Ammendment as well.

Rich - just got through reading your pdf, very good reading and I'd believe your side of it based on the level of detail than the ass-covering version the WPD put together.
Thank you. I would swear to anything in that statement (likely will have to when the investigation gets to me) and it consists of many of the same facts that I used in my criminal report against Mr. Vanaham. If I am not sure of something in there I either don't include it or I note it.

As noted, my girlfriend witnessed the same incident and she has read through my account as well. She says she remembers the same and would swear to everything up until the point that they remove me from the scene. She obviously wasn't present for the rest.

The police did not collect statements from me, my girlfriend or any of the several witnesses who came out to sit with me outside while I waited for the police. They were all upset with Mr. Vanaham with comments like "You can't fix stupid" and "He is such an a$$h$&#". They waited for the police with me to tell them I did nothing wrong and that they were fine with me. The police ignored them.

I still have the name and number of one of those people who witnessed the whole thing and has offered to help in the investigation. Even with the biased witnesses they interviewed, no statement really lines up with Mr. Vanaham's assertions. No one on scene but Mr. Vanaham would state that I was anything but polite, quiet and professional in my conduct and behavior before and after I was verbally assaulted.
 

Rich B

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dadpharm wrote:
I have been active in SC to protect those rights.
'Those rights', but not open carry, right? 2A only exists if no one knows it exists?

People who do what we are discussing only hurt the cause . Over and out.

I assume you mean 'open carry' by 'what we are discussing', right? You do realize what forum you are on right?
 

Rich B

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GoldCoaster wrote:
ManInBlack called it correctly without saying a word :)
Agreed, but this same kind of troll also exists in real life and they do stupid things like verbally assault people and call the police.

It would certainly be nice to work this out here and not have another member of the community get hassled by the police because of someone's ignorance.
 

lcatct

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Rich B wrote:
It would certainly be nice to work this out here and not have another member of the community get hassled by the police because of someone's ignorance.
The local PD's have no incentive to stop this behavior (by retraining officers who more than likely were taught that open carry is illegal) until they start getting hit with judgements. A few town PD's have to cough up some money, the rest will make it clear to their officers how NOT to handle these encounters.

Don't let up Rich, go after 'em!
 

Rich B

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lcatct wrote:
The local PD's have no incentive to stop this behavior (by retraining officers who more than likely were taught that open carry is illegal) until they start getting hit with judgements.  A few town PD's have to cough up some money, the rest will make it clear to their officers how NOT to handle these encounters.

Don't let up Rich, go after 'em!

I agree, although I have to say that Wallingford PD knew right away (during booking) that they made a huge mistake in arresting me for open carrying. The disorderly charge should not have been applied once they realized this, but it was dismissed pretty much right away after they got the facts.

I will certainly try and push this as far as it can go to help the cause, but I am not going to be able to finance lawyers to go after anyone the way it probably should be handled. There is also an investigation ongoing about my wrongful arrest and the Wallingford PD has been pretty friendly about this process so far. I would like to see if that bears any fruit.
 

MGoduto

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Rich B wrote:
GoldCoaster wrote:
ManInBlack called it correctly without saying a word :)
Agreed, but this same kind of troll also exists in real life and they do stupid things like verbally assault people and call the police.

It would certainly be nice to work this out here and not have another member of the community get hassled by the police because of someone's ignorance.

I'm always amazed when someone reports an incident where some bellicose blowhard, who doesn't know you, will approach you (an obviously armed man)and start talking s*** at you about OC'ing.

Am I missing something here, or is the behavior of Mr. Vanaman incredibly reckless, not to mention f'n stupid??



mg
 

Rich B

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MGoduto wrote:
I'm always amazed when someone reports an incident where some bellicose blowhard, who doesn't know you,  will approach you (an obviously armed man) and start talking s*** at you about OC'ing.

Especially when they report to the police in a sworn statement that they felt threatened.

Am I missing something here, or is the behavior of Mr. Vanaman incredibly reckless, not to mention f'n stupid??

At the very least. It is possible here that he purposely caused the scene to try and get someone hurt.

I cannot speak for his intent, but the more we find out about him, the less I think this was just simple ignorance of the law.
 

JohnGalt

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Rich B wrote:
I will certainly try and push this as far as it can go to help the cause, but I am not going to be able to finance lawyers to go after anyone the way it probably should be handled. There is also an investigation ongoing about my wrongful arrest and the Wallingford PD has been pretty friendly about this process so far. I would like to see if that bears any fruit.

Rich, if you have the time, I suggest that you contact the CT chapter of the ACLU and see if they would be interested in helping with your case. They would provide legal work for free if they are convinced that this is a worthy cause. Review the link below which includes criteria for cases they generally accept and a form that you can submit online explaining your case.

http://www.acluct.org/legal/fileacomplaint/

I am interested in what type of response you receive. While the ACLU is known as a liberal organization, they are also an organization that zealously litigates civil rights deprivation cases such as yours. If they refuse to help you, I would be interested in hearing their reasoning.

From their website:

How the ACLU-CT accepts cases
The ACLU-CT generally files cases that affect the civil liberties of large numbers of people, rather than those involving a dispute between two parties.

The basic criteria are:
1. Does this case raise a significant civil liberties or civil rights issue?

2. What effect will this case have on people other than the parties involved?

3. What is the potential impact of the case?
 

Rich B

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GunTotingLawyer wrote:
[if you have the time, I suggest that you contact the CT chapter of the ACLU and see if they would be interested in helping with your case. 

Done. I strongly doubt they will even consider the case because there is a firearm involved, but I will give them the chance. They certainly should be involved with this.
 
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