imported post
This came up as a sidenote on a thread in the Selecting a Handgunsection.
Why do you or don't you add laser sighting to your sidearm to assist with target acquisition/shot placement? Which ones have you found better or worse if you did adopt them? If still debating, what holds you back from deciding to go with them?
I had been thinking about them but....
A couple of nights ago I had found CT grips for my twoCZ's for $520 and almost had myself talked into pulling the trigger on purchasing them. Then I talked with a retired LEO working at Sportsmen's Warehouse about them. His comment was a complete waste of money and potentially something that would get you killed.
Using a CT-equipped firearm, he had me slow-drawing from my regular carry holster and lighting up random objects around the store we were standing in - the phone, a guncase, a jacket, etc. His demonstration started with the old technique of laying the finger alongside the barrel, focusing on the targetand just pointing either from the hip or at shoulder-height, then triggering the laser to see where my natural aimpoint was falling.The worst time was about 2-3 inches off of COM. Then we tried the same thing with drawing and triggering the laser to assist "target" acquisition.The time before pulling the trigger was significantly slower with the CT as the eye searched for the dot and the hands/wrists/arms attempted to center on target. Unfortunately,the accuracy was nobetter and slightly worse due to trying to command the muscles to center before pulling the trigger.A case of thinking too much about the shot.
While he conceded that practice with the CT will somewhat speed up the eye-hand coordination over time there is no significant addition to accuracy in a self-defense situation involving moving targets at ranges of less than 5 yards over the point and shoot technique for the shooter who knows their weapon.In fact, a noticeable slow-down in targeting occurs before firing if you are unfamiliar or fumbling around with the weapon. Sure, if you practice you're going to achieve better accuracy with your aimed, slow-fire shots, but how many of those are going to be involved in a 3-10 second SD or animal attack situation?
Why do SWAT teams and SF seem to use them so much? More training timeto becomeused to working with the laser as well as with those slower, aimed shots where maximum accuracy (like through a group of people or avoiding ricochets from the cover) is essential.
Makes sense to me so he very effectively talked me out of the CT's. Moving to the NEXT acquisition item for me then.
I did watch the CT videos and saw much of what thesalesman was talking about. In low-light scenarios and slow-fire situations where you are almost stalking or doing a house-clearing exerciseI can see some usefulness over a standard weapon but in situations like the ATM and grocery store scenarios it seems less effective than portrayed.
This came up as a sidenote on a thread in the Selecting a Handgunsection.
Why do you or don't you add laser sighting to your sidearm to assist with target acquisition/shot placement? Which ones have you found better or worse if you did adopt them? If still debating, what holds you back from deciding to go with them?
I had been thinking about them but....
A couple of nights ago I had found CT grips for my twoCZ's for $520 and almost had myself talked into pulling the trigger on purchasing them. Then I talked with a retired LEO working at Sportsmen's Warehouse about them. His comment was a complete waste of money and potentially something that would get you killed.
Using a CT-equipped firearm, he had me slow-drawing from my regular carry holster and lighting up random objects around the store we were standing in - the phone, a guncase, a jacket, etc. His demonstration started with the old technique of laying the finger alongside the barrel, focusing on the targetand just pointing either from the hip or at shoulder-height, then triggering the laser to see where my natural aimpoint was falling.The worst time was about 2-3 inches off of COM. Then we tried the same thing with drawing and triggering the laser to assist "target" acquisition.The time before pulling the trigger was significantly slower with the CT as the eye searched for the dot and the hands/wrists/arms attempted to center on target. Unfortunately,the accuracy was nobetter and slightly worse due to trying to command the muscles to center before pulling the trigger.A case of thinking too much about the shot.
While he conceded that practice with the CT will somewhat speed up the eye-hand coordination over time there is no significant addition to accuracy in a self-defense situation involving moving targets at ranges of less than 5 yards over the point and shoot technique for the shooter who knows their weapon.In fact, a noticeable slow-down in targeting occurs before firing if you are unfamiliar or fumbling around with the weapon. Sure, if you practice you're going to achieve better accuracy with your aimed, slow-fire shots, but how many of those are going to be involved in a 3-10 second SD or animal attack situation?
Why do SWAT teams and SF seem to use them so much? More training timeto becomeused to working with the laser as well as with those slower, aimed shots where maximum accuracy (like through a group of people or avoiding ricochets from the cover) is essential.
Makes sense to me so he very effectively talked me out of the CT's. Moving to the NEXT acquisition item for me then.
I did watch the CT videos and saw much of what thesalesman was talking about. In low-light scenarios and slow-fire situations where you are almost stalking or doing a house-clearing exerciseI can see some usefulness over a standard weapon but in situations like the ATM and grocery store scenarios it seems less effective than portrayed.