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Thread: IWB holster OC?

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    Regular Member waterfowl woody's Avatar
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    just curious about this and do not know if its been talked about.

    my thoughts of OC is full view with nothing obstructing or partially obstructing the view of the sidearm. as in open button up shirt or unzipped jacket blowing open to reveal your sidearm, ect. I think i have heard or read in here of this but I really legally want to know this.....

    If you have a shirt tucked in with your IWB holster on the outside of tucked in shirt and the butt of the gun, last 1/4 of said firearm, is clearly visible is this a legal OC or is it considered CC? Is it half and half, with CPL legal?

    please help with this mind scramble.

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    Regular Member skiingislife725's Avatar
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    Last 1/4 of a handgun...so showing part of the grip but not entirely would likely be considered CC. Showing all of the grip is just about the same as how a holster covers up the rest of the gun...so that'd be OC "Virginia tuck" style. From what I remember, the gun has to be showing so that the average person would recognize it as such...tried to find the RCW (is there one?) but failed.

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    The reason you failed to find an RCW that defines in detail what 'concealed' means is... there is no such law.


    Really, in WA it's best just to get your CPL. Then the only thing you have to worry about is where it's legal to have a loaded handgun where you are. Concealed, partially concealed, open, and all other such questions then become moot.


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    Regular Member waterfowl woody's Avatar
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    skiingislife725 wrote:
    Last 1/4 of a handgun...so showing part of the grip but not entirely would likely be considered CC. Showing all of the grip is just about the same as how a holster covers up the rest of the gun...so that'd be OC "Virginia tuck" style. From what I remember, the gun has to be showing so that the average person would recognize it as such...tried to find the RCW (is there one?) but failed.
    sorry i read that after you responded and it would be more like 1/3 rd or more of the gun is sticking out,so yes the grip is all exposed.

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    Regular Member waterfowl woody's Avatar
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    kparker wrote:
    The reason you failed to find an RCW that defines in detail what 'concealed' means is... there is no such law.


    Really, in WA it's best just to get your CPL. Then the only thing you have to worry about is where it's legal to have a loaded handgun where you are. Concealed, partially concealed, open, and all other such questions then become moot.
    so if im understanding the last part right your telling me if i have a CPL, which I do , then it doesn't matter if my gun is visible to people likeif my shirt blows open or jacket? or if it gets hot all a sudden and i remove my jacket while wearing the IWB as described above?

    I have concealed carried for over a decade and have always believed the word for what it means "concealed." I have heared of open carry being legal in Washington for some time but never paid attention as to its fine details as it "wasnt for me" at that time of my life. Now as im older and more mature in life this is now "for me" in many ways. As a mature gun owner i like to make sure im doing correct, "measuring twice and cutting once" if you may.

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    waterfowl woody wrote:
    kparker wrote:
    The reason you failed to find an RCW that defines in detail what 'concealed' means is... there is no such law.


    Really, in WA it's best just to get your CPL. Then the only thing you have to worry about is where it's legal to have a loaded handgun where you are. Concealed, partially concealed, open, and all other such questions then become moot.
    so if im understanding the last part right your telling me if i have a CPL, which I do , then it doesn't matter if my gun is visible to people likeif my shirt blows open or jacket? or if it gets hot all a sudden and i remove my jacket while wearing the IWB as described above?

    I have concealed carried for over a decade and have always believed the word for what it means "concealed." I have heared of open carry being legal in Washington for some time but never paid attention as to its fine details as it "wasnt for me" at that time of my life. Now as im older and more mature in life this is now "for me" in many ways. As a mature gun owner i like to make sure im doing correct, "measuring twice and cutting once" if you may.
    In some states this is a no-no. Washington is not one of them. You may "OC" with a tucked holster (though I don't recommend it, but I have done it), you may take off your jacket revealing your pistol, you may sloppy carry (unbottoned button-up shirt), whatever your heart pleases really. If you're going to leave the CPL in your vehicle, as I do (so that I can't be asked to cover up) most of the time, then I strongly suggest an OWB holster and no covering garment at all. Otherwise just have your CPL on you.

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    kito109654 wrote:
    If you're going to leave the CPL in your vehicle, as I do (so that I can't be asked to cover up) most of the time, then I strongly suggest an OWB holster and no covering garment at all. Otherwise just have your CPL on you.
    They can ask you to cover uptil they turn blue in the face, all you have to do is say no. If they try to force you to cover up, its coersion.
    I am the person responsible for myself, my wife and my son. I take that VERY seriously.

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    tyguy808 wrote:
    kito109654 wrote:
    If you're going to leave the CPL in your vehicle, as I do (so that I can't be asked to cover up) most of the time, then I strongly suggest an OWB holster and no covering garment at all. Otherwise just have your CPL on you.
    They can ask you to cover uptil they turn blue in the face, all you have to do is say no. If they try to force you to cover up, its coersion.
    Yeah but I prefer to answer that they are asking me to do something specifically illegal. Both are good answers, however, and have just as much legal background, as you've pointed out.

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    What would the cops say this is open carry or concealed carry???
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    Regular Member Machoduck's Avatar
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    Some points:

    *There is no less of your piece showing when in an IWB than when in an OWB,
    *There is no mention of holster types in RCW 9.41.270; no mention of holster at all in all of 9.41,
    *RCW9.41.270 does not mention "concealed," let alone define the word, except for 270 (2), and
    *The word "appropriate" is not in all of 9.41 except to direct actions of certain government entities.

    MD




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    Regular Member waterfowl woody's Avatar
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    so basically what i am getting here is that if you have a CPL and because Washington is OC state that you could carry any holstered pistol anywhere on you and at any visibility.



    thanks everybody. for some reason i couldn't get that one figured out in my head, kept goin back and forth but it is actually simple. go figure, thanks.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    waterfowl woody wrote:
    so basically what i am getting here is that if you have a CPL and because Washington is OC state that you could carry any holstered pistol anywhere on you and at any visibility.
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    Regular Member Machoduck's Avatar
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    Ah, Brady: How can it be considered concealed if I, or a cop, can see it? As far as that goes, why would he discus pistol carry with you if he hadn't seen the thing or gotten a complaint from someone who had. The ordinary definition of "concealed" means that one can't see it!

    MD



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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Machoduck wrote:
    Ah, Brady: How can it be considered concealed if I, or a cop, can see it? As far as that goes, why would he discus pistol carry with you if he hadn't seen the thing or gotten a complaint from someone who had. The ordinary definition of "concealed" means that one can't see it!

    MD

    Therefore, a CPL is unecessary? If you can't see it, why would you need to license the practice?
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    kito109654 wrote:


    In some states this is a no-no. Washington is not one of them. You may "OC" with a tucked holster (though I don't recommend it, but I have done it), you may take off your jacket revealing your pistol, you may sloppy carry (unbottoned button-up shirt), whatever your heart pleases really. If you're going to leave the CPL in your vehicle, as I do (so that I can't be asked to cover up) most of the time, then I strongly suggest an OWB holster and no covering garment at all. Otherwise just have your CPL on you.
    I am curious as to why you dont recomend OC with a tucked holster even though you have done it.
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    Regular Member Machoduck's Avatar
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    gogodawgs wrote:
    Machoduck wrote:
    Ah, Brady: How can it be considered concealed if I, or a cop, can see it? As far as that goes, why would he discus pistol carry with you if he hadn't seen the thing or gotten a complaint from someone who had. The ordinary definition of "concealed" means that one can't see it!

    MD

    Therefore, a CPL is unecessary? If you can't see it, why would you need to license the practice?
    GoGo, what on earth are you talking about? Amzbrady posted a photo of someone carrying a Glock IWB at 4:00 and asked if it were considered concealed. Remember the context here was whether IWB could be considered concealed. I posted what I thought was pertinent. Where in this thread did I refer to larger legal principles, including but not limited to, anything relating to legal concealed carry?

    MD



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    Regular Member killchain's Avatar
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    Get your CPL, you can take it loaded into a vehicle, wear it OC or CC or however you desire... though I recommend a quality holster so you don't drop it. :P

    As someone's said before "you could tape it to your forehead if you felt like it."

    And no, you don't need a CPL to do that. Just some duct tape.
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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Machoduck wrote:
    gogodawgs wrote:
    Machoduck wrote:
    Ah, Brady: How can it be considered concealed if I, or a cop, can see it? As far as that goes, why would he discus pistol carry with you if he hadn't seen the thing or gotten a complaint from someone who had. The ordinary definition of "concealed" means that one can't see it!

    MD

    Therefore, a CPL is unecessary? If you can't see it, why would you need to license the practice?
    GoGo, what on earth are you talking about? Amzbrady posted a photo of someone carrying a Glock IWB at 4:00 and asked if it were considered concealed. Remember the context here was whether IWB could be considered concealed. I posted what I thought was pertinent. Where in this thread did I refer to larger legal principles, including but not limited to, anything relating to legal concealed carry?

    MD

    Sorry, was attempting to show the humor of the law. Equate it to if a tree falls in the woods does anyone hear it? If you carry concealed and no one see's it, do you need a license?
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    gogodawgs wrote:
    Machoduck wrote:
    gogodawgs wrote:
    Machoduck wrote:
    Ah, Brady: How can it be considered concealed if I, or a cop, can see it? As far as that goes, why would he discus pistol carry with you if he hadn't seen the thing or gotten a complaint from someone who had. The ordinary definition of "concealed" means that one can't see it!

    MD

    Therefore, a CPL is unecessary? If you can't see it, why would you need to license the practice?
    GoGo, what on earth are you talking about? Amzbrady posted a photo of someone carrying a Glock IWB at 4:00 and asked if it were considered concealed. Remember the context here was whether IWB could be considered concealed. I posted what I thought was pertinent. Where in this thread did I refer to larger legal principles, including but not limited to, anything relating to legal concealed carry?

    MD

    Sorry, was attempting to show the humor of the law. Equate it to if a tree falls in the woods does anyone hear it? If you carry concealed and no one see's it, do you need a license?
    Only if you're a law abiding citizen.

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Machoduck wrote:
    Ah, Brady: How can it be considered concealed if I, or a cop, can see it? As far as that goes, why would he discus pistol carry with you if he hadn't seen the thing or gotten a complaint from someone who had. The ordinary definition of "concealed" means that one can't see it!

    MD

    Reason I asked, is wondering if aleo could ask you for your cpl since some of it is tucked (concealed), or if you could just leave the cpl in the car since part of it is showing?I would think it could go either way, depending on the leo's mood.
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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    amzbrady wrote:
    Machoduck wrote:
    Ah, Brady: How can it be considered concealed if I, or a cop, can see it? As far as that goes, why would he discus pistol carry with you if he hadn't seen the thing or gotten a complaint from someone who had. The ordinary definition of "concealed" means that one can't see it!

    MD

    Reason I asked, is wondering if aleo could ask you for your cpl since some of it is tucked (concealed), or if you could just leave the cpl in the car since part of it is showing?I would think it could go either way, depending on the leo's mood.
    even a poorly concealed pistol is legal...period!
    the presence of a gun is NOT RAS of a crime..
    the cop has no authority to demand you permission slip!
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    Regular Member Machoduck's Avatar
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    Well put, 1245.

    Brady, that was what I was thinking that drove your question. Someone was approached by cops in Bellevue for just your question. The cop said his Lt told him that the lower part of the holster had to be visible, or some such nonsense. How could the law say anything about holsters per se without using the word holster? The story infuriated me to the point of analyzing RCW9.41.270 in a "white paper" (puffs out chest).

    MD



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    Absent a Legislative definition codified in the R.C.W, or a judicial one ruled on by the state supreme court. I would be inclined to believe the word "Concealed" is defined by its common use meaning, and in court would probably be subject to the "reasonable person" standard.
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    Regular Member GreatWhiteLlama's Avatar
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    Machoduck wrote:
    Well put, 1245.

    Brady, that was what I was thinking that drove your question. Someone was approached by cops in Bellevue for just your question. The cop said his Lt told him that the lower part of the holster had to be visible, or some such nonsense. How could the law say anything about holsters per se without using the word holster? The story infuriated me to the point of analyzing RCW9.41.270 in a "white paper" (puffs out chest).

    MD
    That was me. The term he used was "partially concealed" lol

    Here's the post:
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=25883&forum_id=55&jump_t o=430341#p430341

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    NavyLT wrote:
    I would think it would come down to this in court:

    Lawyer, "Officer, how did you know the defendant was carrying a gun?"

    Officer, "I saw it."

    Lawyer, "You saw what?"

    Officer, "The gun!"

    Lawyer, "How did you know it was a gun?"

    Officer, "Because I told you, I saw it!"

    Lawyer, "Well then, if you could see it, and you knew it was a gun because you saw it, then it could not have been concealed, could it? If it was concealed you either would not have saw itor not known that it was a gun."
    So in theory a CPL would never be needed. In Theory only.
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