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Thread: 'Open-carry' advocate must give up guns, UPI.com

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    What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty? Innocent men have constitutional rights not to be infringed even by a judge.

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    http://www.jsonline.com/newswatch/95019339.html

    Last week, he was released on $100,000 cash bail, but prosecutors asked a judge this week to add the condition that Gonzalez not possess any dangerous weapons. The request did not indicate that Gonzalez had possessed guns after he was freed.
    At a hearing Thursday before Milwaukee County Circuit Judge Kevin Martens, Gonzalez's attorney, Nelida Cortes, did not take a position on the request for the extra condition, and Martens added it, as well as a condition that Gonzalez not leave Wisconsin without the court's permission.
    Martens also granted Assistant District Attorney Bill Molitor's request to extend an order that Corn have no contact with a couple who are relatives of the victims and possible witnesses in the case.


    Don't miss the comments.

    http://www.wisspd.org/html/training/...009/SpBios.pdf
    2009 WISCONSIN STATE PUBLIC DEFENDER CONFERENCE
    SPEAKER BIOGRAPHIES
    [ ... ]
    Nelida Cortes is an Attorney Manager in the State Public Defender’s Milwaukee Trial Office.

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    Regular Member cowboyridn's Avatar
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    So, basically, if the family seeks revenge, Gonzalez is barred from protecting himself against such. I agree with J.Gleason[/b], what happened to “innocent until proven guilty? Innocent men have constitutional rights not to be infringed even by a judge”. I think his attorney should have objected to the decision.



    Don

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    Regular Member johnny amish's Avatar
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    I think we all know innocent until proven guilty is a bunch fairy tail bs in this country. How many innocent men and women are locked up because they did not have the money to hire Johnny Cochrane as their lawyer?
    "To sin by silence, when we should protest makes cowards out of men."
    Ella Wheeler Cox


    We must contact our lawmakers today, tomorrow and the next day to remind them of Constitutional Carry.
    Laws are not written because of the actions of many, they are wrtiten because of the inactions of many.

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    Regular Member AdamXD's Avatar
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    Although I disagree with the judge's decision, I understand why he made such a decision. Judges are supposed to be non-biased (even though that is rarely the case) and see the case from both the defendants as well as the prosecutes. That means the judge has to consider the unlikely possibility that this may have been a murder. Barring the right to carry a gun until the case is closed is a precautionary measure.

    Unless this judge has a prior history of being biased to cases that involve guns or any other factors of this case, or he is directly asked why he made that decision, we can only assume that it is indeed a precautionary measure. I would have done the same if I were the judge.
    J.A.Salinas
    "Natural Selection is another way of God telling you you're an idiot"

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    nothing the courts, the cops, the criminals, and society likes more than an unarmed victim! or victim in waiting in this case.

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    Regular Member johnny amish's Avatar
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    McX wrote:
    nothing the courts, the cops, the criminals, and society likes more than an unarmed victim! or victim in waiting in this case.
    Sounds like an attempt at job security for the courts and cops.
    "To sin by silence, when we should protest makes cowards out of men."
    Ella Wheeler Cox


    We must contact our lawmakers today, tomorrow and the next day to remind them of Constitutional Carry.
    Laws are not written because of the actions of many, they are wrtiten because of the inactions of many.

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    His lawyer did not take a position against it? Whats up with that?

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    Regular Member johnny amish's Avatar
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    It would be nice to hear from Jesus on this whole issue. I'm sure it is in his best interest to keep quietan I am glad for that. We all hope this thing turns out good for Jesus.
    "To sin by silence, when we should protest makes cowards out of men."
    Ella Wheeler Cox


    We must contact our lawmakers today, tomorrow and the next day to remind them of Constitutional Carry.
    Laws are not written because of the actions of many, they are wrtiten because of the inactions of many.

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    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    minuteman wrote:
    His lawyer did not take a position against it? Whats up with that?
    Yeah what's up with that? The lawyer should have taken the position (unless it would have hurt his defense strategy) that Jesus would be vulnerable to a vigillante attack by friends of the perpetrater...ummm "poor hardworking victim".
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
    Beretta92FSLady
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ons-Bill/page5

    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    minuteman wrote:
    His lawyer did not take a position against it? Whats up with that?
    Do we know this? Anyone seen the minutes of the hearing? From what I saw on WCCA the prosecution asked for a change of bail terms and the judge approved it. It doesn't show the actual arguments.

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    paul@paul-fisher.com wrote:
    minuteman wrote:
    His lawyer did not take a position against it? Whats up with that?
    Do we know this? Anyone seen the minutes of the hearing? From what I saw on WCCA the prosecution asked for a change of bail terms and the judge approved it. It doesn't show the actual arguments.
    Not a transcript from the hearing but as reported:

    http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/95019339.html
    At a hearing Thursday before Milwaukee County Circuit Judge Kevin Martens, Gonzalez's attorney, Nelida Cortes, did not take a position on the request for the extra condition, and Martens added it, as well as a condition that Gonzalez not leave Wisconsin without the court's permission.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Thank you. I did not see this.

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    Ms. Cortes is with the State Public Defender's office and does not specialize in criminal defense law.


    http://www.wisspd.org/html/training/...009/SpBios.pdf
    2009 WISCONSIN STATE PUBLIC DEFENDER CONFERENCE
    SPEAKER BIOGRAPHIES
    [ ...]
    Nelida Cortes is an Attorney Manager in the State Public Defender’s Milwaukee Trial Office.

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    johnny amish wrote:
    I think we all know innocent until proven guilty is a bunch fairy tail bs in this country. How many innocent men and women are locked up because they did not have the money to hire Johnny Cochrane as their lawyer?
    a lot

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    johnny amish wrote:
    I think we all know innocent until proven guilty is a bunch fairy tail bs in this country. How many innocent men and women are locked up because they did not have the money to hire Johnny Cochrane as their lawyer?
    So what of our correspondents here that would beard the LEO by flaunting the law?

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    the insult is; the legal system counts on the defendant's weakness, inability to devote time, money, efforts, to mount an effective defense. the legal system doesn't seem interested in justice, and the prosecutors don't seem interested in building a factual case, just in seeing what slop they can piece together, what type of an effective smear they can mount, to futher shame an innocent citizen caught in the system.

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    Public defenders are known for coping plea agreements. I sure hope this isn't the case for Jesus.

    I have yet to see a Public Defender put any effort into someones defense other than making a deal with the DA.

    Maybe this will be the first.

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    I believe that the vast majority of all cases are resolved amicably, perhaps grudgingly but still amicably.

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    Amicable is at the demise of the defendant.

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    The public defender has already shown she is unable or unwilling to defend her client. Is there some process where Jesus can get a different one?

    On the other hand, the judge has found probable cause that Jesus committed a felony. If probable cause is a preponderance of the evidence and is good enough for the feds to prohibit possesion of guns in civil orders of protection, I think it would be good enough, in this case, to take his guns.

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    Regular Member Cobra469's Avatar
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    Regardless of the specific prohibition of possessing a firearm he would still be prohibited. Simple fact is that they had filed a TRO against him for violence. That TRO automatically will prohibit him from possessing a firearm. All they did was make another specific condition of his release that would already apply. It is no different than any other violent crime regardless of his innocence. This injustice is placed upon many individuals who may or may not need such an order. But it is what it is. And I am sure many of us figured it would happen anyhow. Now this doesn't stop anybody else from OCing around him. But I have heard cases where an individual was charged with possession of a firearm merely because it was in the house regardless of if it was in their control or not. But those cases were because it was in a drawer or someplace that was not secured by a lock and as such it was arguable if they had ready access to it.

    http://www.doj.state.wi.us/cvs/Victi...ing_orders.asp

    Respondents face a mandatory firearm surrender that goes into effect when domestic abuse and child abuse final injunctions are granted. The court may order the respondent of a harassment injunction to surrender firearms if there is clear and convincing evidence that the respondent may use firearms to harm another or the public.

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