Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 34

Thread: Tucson stores banning guns are whinning....

  1. #1
    Guest
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    958

    Post imported post

    ...about gun owners who hand out AZCDL boycott cards and shop elsewhere...

    http://azstarnet.com/news/blogs/seno...cc4c03286.html

    Ain't life a BITCH?

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Linn County, Iowa, USA
    Posts
    491

    Post imported post

    GWbiker wrote:
    ...about gun owners who hand out AZCDL boycott cards and shop elsewhere...

    http://azstarnet.com/news/blogs/seno...cc4c03286.html

    Ain't life a BITCH?
    Ain't it though?

    From the link:
    The gun-rights advocates' position on this is clear to me, and I've got good sources explaining it. I'm curious if anyone in business or elsewhere is fighting them with pressure from the other side — i.e., if you don't prohibit guns, we'll stop patronizing you.
    I have to wonder how effective this would be. Consider that the typical gun owner makes more money than your typical non-owner because, let's face it, guns are expensive. Well, at any rate guns aren't free.

    There is also the issue of finding enough people that care enough about the issue to hand out cards stating they will not patronize a business unless they declare the property a disarmed victim zone. I think the thousands... no, wait, hundreds... oh, dozens?... several?... people that came to the NRA Annual Meeting to protest is an example of the effort people are willing to put forward in disarming the law abiding.

  3. #3
    Guest
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    958

    Post imported post

    IA_farmboy wrote:
    GWbiker wrote:
    ...about gun owners who hand out AZCDL boycott cards and shop elsewhere...

    http://azstarnet.com/news/blogs/seno...cc4c03286.html

    Ain't life a BITCH?
    Ain't it though?

    From the link:
    The gun-rights advocates' position on this is clear to me, and I've got good sources explaining it. I'm curious if anyone in business or elsewhere is fighting them with pressure from the other side — i.e., if you don't prohibit guns, we'll stop patronizing you.
    I have to wonder how effective this would be. Consider that the typical gun owner makes more money than your typical non-owner because, let's face it, guns are expensive. Well, at any rate guns aren't free.

    There is also the issue of finding enough people that care enough about the issue to hand out cards stating they will not patronize a business unless they declare the property a disarmed victim zone. I think the thousands... no, wait, hundreds... oh, dozens?... several?... people that came to the NRA Annual Meeting to protest is an example of the effort people are willing to put forward in disarming the law abiding.
    FWIW, I had 1,000 "No Gun=NO $$" cards printed up last September to hand out at gun shops, OC dinners, friends, etc. I paid for another 1,000 such cards printed last March.

    AZCDL has several thousands cards in motion in the PHX area, (A AZCDL card is pictured in the news article).

    AZCDL members take action, while OC members elsewhere just point and complain.

    BTW, please don't attempt to confuse us with the NRA as you have no idea what's happening down here.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Superstition Mountain, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    424

    Post imported post

    GWbiker wrote:
    AZCDL members take action, while OC members elsewhere just point and complain.

    BTW, please don't attempt to confuse us with the NRA as you have no idea what's happening down here.
    Others just point and complain? That's kind of a broad brush, isn't it? I'd bet that most people who become AZCDL members do so because they're already active in supporting civil rights, particularly the ones protected by the 2nd amendment. AZCDL is a great way to join up with other people who are interested in the same activity.

    As for the 2nd quoted sentence, did you read his post? I think he was agreeing with all of your points. The only mention of the NRA was when he pointed out that the anti's could not even gather much of a crowd to protest the largest meeting of gun owners in the nation (the NRA convention).

    I don't think he was comparing (or confusing) AZCDL with the NRA.

    At any rate, I'll be interested to see if there's any followup to that article. I can't imagine that the anti's can get together any sort of organized campaign to target businesses; they'd simply have too many to try to persuade.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Prescott Valley, AZ
    Posts
    200

    Post imported post

    GWbiker wrote:

    FWIW, I had 1,000 "No Gun=NO $$" cards printed up last September to hand out at gun shops, OC dinners, friends, etc. I paid for another 1,000 such cards printed last March.

    AZCDL has several thousands cards in motion in the PHX area, (A AZCDL card is pictured in the news article).

    AZCDL members take action, while OC members elsewhere just point and complain.

    BTW, please don't attempt to confuse us with the NRA as you have no idea what's happening down here.
    GWbiker:

    Why the seemingly bitter tone?

    As mzb said, you seem to be painting with a rather broad brush.

    There are many of us, who have been OC'ing our entire lives, who do not just "point and complain." Yes, we may not be members of AZCDL, and pass out "cards" -- but that does not mean that we do not take opportunities to take the time to educate people about OC -- business owners included.

    Also, I don't think he was trying to make a direct comparison between you fine folks and the NRA -- at least that's not how I read his post.



  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    661

    Post imported post

    Pistol-Packing-Preacher-in-PV wrote:
    GWbiker wrote:

    FWIW, I had 1,000 "No Gun=NO $$" cards printed up last September to hand out at gun shops, OC dinners, friends, etc. I paid for another 1,000 such cards printed last March.

    AZCDL has several thousands cards in motion in the PHX area, (A AZCDL card is pictured in the news article).

    AZCDL members take action, while OC members elsewhere just point and complain.

    BTW, please don't attempt to confuse us with the NRA as you have no idea what's happening down here.
    GWbiker:

    Why the seemingly bitter tone?

    As mzb said, you seem to be painting with a rather broad brush.

    There are many of us, who have been OC'ing our entire lives, who do not just "point and complain." Yes, we may not be members of AZCDL, and pass out "cards" -- but that does not mean that we do not take opportunities to take the time to educate people about OC -- business owners included.

    Also, I don't think he was trying to make a direct comparison between you fine folks and the NRA -- at least that's not how I read his post.

    I don't think his comments were directed at mzb. As far as I can tell they were directed at IA_farmboy, who has in the past instigated some anti-AZ rhetoric (SB1070). I think it's just envy that we have it so good down here. Don't hate IA, come out for a vacation, you may find you really like it down here in the heat... but it is, after all, a dry heat.

  7. #7
    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    907

    Post imported post

    GWbiker wrote:
    ...about gun owners who hand out AZCDL boycott cards and shop elsewhere...
    Cards are available at AzCDL gun show tables. If you want toprint your own, the template is on our website's Educational page.

    Scroll to the bottom to "Activism Tools" and you'll find the templates (front and back of card). They print on business card stock (Avery 8376 or equivalent).

    Fred

  8. #8
    Guest
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    958

    Post imported post

    Dahwg wrote:
    I don't think his comments were directed at mzb. As far as I can tell they were directed at IA_farmboy, who has in the past instigated some anti-AZ rhetoric (SB1070). I think it's just envy that we have it so good down here. Don't hate IA, come out for a vacation, you may find you really like it down here in the heat... but it is, after all, a dry heat.
    Ding, ding, ding we have a winner.

    Here's someone who understood the cryptic garble I was trying to type while under the effects of a full moon late las night.

    Sorry if I pissed off any fellow Arizona OC folks.

    My response was directed at "Farm Boy" who frequently wanders off his cow schit pasture down to this subforum to critique our happy way of life.

    YES, the "NO gun=NO $$" cards are working, else the AZ Star newspaper wouldn't be doing a feature on the subject this Sunday.

  9. #9
    Regular Member TOF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Happy Jack, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    443

    Post imported post

    Keep up the good work Dahwg.

    I don't think farm boy found the end of the row yet.

    I carry some of the cards but haven't found anyone to give one too yet.
    If you woke up breathing, congratulations! You get another chance.

  10. #10
    Regular Member JoeGlock40's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    tucson/marana , az
    Posts
    119

    Post imported post

    id like to give one of them cards to the management at the the foothills mall in tucson..im a mall cop there and us mall cops dont care if any1 carrys until sumone actually calls and complains then we have to ask the person to leave cuz we have no deadly weapon and firearms signs on the doors. its pretty stupid considering we had one person stabbed in the apt complex neighboring the mall this month and the suspect hid in the mall then evaded police and 2 incidents last year where guns were pulled on people in the parking lot, one drunk person pulled a gun on sum1 after a differentfight at a bar while the cops were just 100 feet or so away and another where a crazy guy pulled a 357 on a guy for giving him a bad look and kept it in his face till cops came...the mall managment dont realize that criminals are still going to carry weapons conceald no matter wut a sticker on the window says and it leaves regular law obiding citizens defensless..to me they should either have at least one PCSO deputy during mall hours everyday or at least one trained armed guard for every shift since no citizens are allowed to be armed..but thats just wut i think, and the other security gguards there 2 actually
    "You may find me one day dead in a ditch somewhere. But by God, youll find me in a pile of brass. Trooper M. Padgett

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Prescott Valley, AZ
    Posts
    200

    Post imported post

    GWbiker wrote:
    Dahwg wrote:
    I don't think his comments were directed at mzb. As far as I can tell they were directed at IA_farmboy, who has in the past instigated some anti-AZ rhetoric (SB1070). I think it's just envy that we have it so good down here. Don't hate IA, come out for a vacation, you may find you really like it down here in the heat... but it is, after all, a dry heat.
    Ding, ding, ding we have a winner.

    Here's someone who understood the cryptic garble I was trying to type while under the effects of a full moon late las night.

    Sorry if I pissed off any fellow Arizona OC folks.

    My response was directed at "Farm Boy" who frequently wanders off his cow schit pasture down to this subforum to critique our happy way of life.

    YES, the "NO gun=NO $$" cards are working, else the AZ Star newspaper wouldn't be doing a feature on the subject this Sunday.
    Actually, I was aware to whom GW's comments were directed -- I just happened to reference mzb in my reply. Sorry for the confusion.

    Also, I was unaware that IA has a "history" here in the AZ forums. I just thought GW seemed a bit testy, and was responding to that.

    Sorry 'bout that.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    SMITHFIELD, North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    270

    Post imported post

    explaining that they're losing business as a result....





  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Linn County, Iowa, USA
    Posts
    491

    Post imported post

    GWbiker wrote:
    IA_farmboy wrote:
    GWbiker wrote:
    ...about gun owners who hand out AZCDL boycott cards and shop elsewhere...

    http://azstarnet.com/news/blogs/seno...cc4c03286.html

    Ain't life a BITCH?
    Ain't it though?

    From the link:
    The gun-rights advocates' position on this is clear to me, and I've got good sources explaining it. I'm curious if anyone in business or elsewhere is fighting them with pressure from the other side — i.e., if you don't prohibit guns, we'll stop patronizing you.
    I have to wonder how effective this would be. Consider that the typical gun owner makes more money than your typical non-owner because, let's face it, guns are expensive. Well, at any rate guns aren't free.

    There is also the issue of finding enough people that care enough about the issue to hand out cards stating they will not patronize a business unless they declare the property a disarmed victim zone. I think the thousands... no, wait, hundreds... oh, dozens?... several?... people that came to the NRA Annual Meeting to protest is an example of the effort people are willing to put forward in disarming the law abiding.
    FWIW, I had 1,000 "No Gun=NO $$" cards printed up last September to hand out at gun shops, OC dinners, friends, etc. I paid for another 1,000 such cards printed last March.

    AZCDL has several thousands cards in motion in the PHX area, (A AZCDL card is pictured in the news article).

    AZCDL members take action, while OC members elsewhere just point and complain.

    BTW, please don't attempt to confuse us with the NRA as you have no idea what's happening down here.
    It seems you, and some others, misinterpreted my post. I wanted to point out that the gun grabbers are few and unorganized. They have gone beyond lies and misinformation and have now resorted to name calling, gonzo tactics, and actually paying people to show up at protests.

    The Brady Campaign was known to have to pay people to hand out literature at the 2009 NRA Annual Meeting in Arizona. The 2010 meeting had only a handful of people show up, and I have to wonder if those people were paid.

    There is more support behind our right to self defense, and I would estimate more money as well. Someone might try to create a "ban gun or we won't come to your store" handout but I imagine few would feel motivated enough to even print them out.

    I did not confuse the AZCDL with the NRA. I was just using the NRA Annual Meeting as an example of how impotent the gun grabbers have become.

    Perhaps you are right in that I don't know what is going on in Arizona. That is why I come here, so that I may learn.

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Linn County, Iowa, USA
    Posts
    491

    Post imported post

    Dahwg wrote:
    Pistol-Packing-Preacher-in-PV wrote:
    GWbiker wrote:

    FWIW, I had 1,000 "No Gun=NO $$" cards printed up last September to hand out at gun shops, OC dinners, friends, etc. I paid for another 1,000 such cards printed last March.

    AZCDL has several thousands cards in motion in the PHX area, (A AZCDL card is pictured in the news article).

    AZCDL members take action, while OC members elsewhere just point and complain.

    BTW, please don't attempt to confuse us with the NRA as you have no idea what's happening down here.
    GWbiker:

    Why the seemingly bitter tone?

    As mzb said, you seem to be painting with a rather broad brush.

    There are many of us, who have been OC'ing our entire lives, who do not just "point and complain." Yes, we may not be members of AZCDL, and pass out "cards" -- but that does not mean that we do not take opportunities to take the time to educate people about OC -- business owners included.

    Also, I don't think he was trying to make a direct comparison between you fine folks and the NRA -- at least that's not how I read his post.

    I don't think his comments were directed at mzb. As far as I can tell they were directed at IA_farmboy, who has in the past instigated some anti-AZ rhetoric (SB1070). I think it's just envy that we have it so good down here. Don't hate IA, come out for a vacation, you may find you really like it down here in the heat... but it is, after all, a dry heat.
    I had no intention of instigating anything on SB1070. I wished to only point out how flawed the law is.

    - Arizona cannot enforce immigration law without the support and consent of the federal government. That is simply because it is only the federal government that has the database of people that have entered the country lawfully.
    - The ability created in the law allow a citizen to sue an Arizona law enforcement agency for no enforcing immigration law is dangerous and potentially unconstitutional. The effort in which a law enforcement agency is taking to enforce immigration law is very subjective. Permitting people to sue over this is likely to cost the tax payers a lot of money in court costs for the law enforcement agency to defend itself, and if they lose then it will cost them the monetary penalties as well. It is likely unconstitutional since there have been a number of court cases on what an law enforcement officer is obligated to do. This law could be in violation of that legal precedent.
    - SB1070 is also quite pointless since there was nothing preventing the Arizona law enforcement from enforcing immigration law, with the possible exception of a lack of cooperation from the federal government. A state law cannot compel the federal government to cooperate in enforcement.

    I considered coming down for the NRA Annual Meeting in 2009 but that was a bit to far to go at a time I had little time to get there. I thoroughly enjoyed going to the NRA Annual Meeting in Charlotte and I intend to go again in 2012. Pittsburgh is a bit too far to go and so I doubt I'll be able to attend in 2011.

    Oh, and I know a few people that lived in Arizona and I've been told the whole "but it's a dry heat" is a big steaming pile. It's HOT down there in the summer. That does not mean I won't visit, I'll just do it when it's cooler. I just need an excuse to head that way, and the time to do it. I heard there is a gun store down there that will let people shoot full auto Thompson sub-machine guns. That will likely be one of my stops if I'm in the area.

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Sierra Vista, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    113

    Post imported post

    IA_farmboy wrote:
    - Arizona cannot enforce immigration law without the support and consent of the federal government. That is simply because it is only the federal government that has the database of people that have entered the country lawfully.
    There is no need for a database. The federal law is that they MUST carry paperwork on them at ALL while in the U.S. Failure to do so then means they are breaking the law and if they choose not to follow the required law to stay in the U.S. then they must not want to stay after all and need to be sent back to whichever country they came from.

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    , South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    2,247

    Post imported post

    I am not sure that I got the same message out of the linked article that the rest of you did. I thought the article was about how businesses, such as Startbucks, do get caught in the middle no matter what. Starbucks plainly stated that they would follow the state laws which most of the general public and gun owners took to mean a pro-gun stance. By taking this non-stance they lost business, (although probably a small amount) from those boycotting from the left. If they had caved in and banned guns then they would have lost revenue from those on the Pro gun side. Which way would they have lost the most money is questionable as I really don't see the pro-gun crowd as much of Startbucks fans and the more liberal types but that is neither here nor there.

    I doubt that there are very many businesses that would actually ban guns on their own but rather do so because of pressure from some outside group. The fellow from Beyond Bread said he wanted to be neutral. He is being forced to decide which side to take that will cause him to lose the least amount of business. It is up to the pro-gunners to convince him not to ban guns and by doing so will lose the most. The other side is not as organized and with the Starbucks deal we have seen that their efforts are not nearly as effective.

    Our role is to make sure that we don't play into the hands of the anti's and help them out. Sometimes we are going to have to bite our tongue even though we may betotally in the right. People wonder why LEO wearing a gun don't upset people like many OC do. One reason is that LEO are expected to carry a gun but how about plain clothed LEO and sometime why are you asked if you are LEO?Do you carry it like it is no big deal and just a normal thing or do you try to be sure that everyone in there knows you have a gun. Your appearance will play a part of it but too many of us inadvertantly give off signs that we are doing something "special". The public will pick up on that and there are lots of cases where thatis exactly why the confrontation took place. When someone walks by and you turn to be sure they see your gun you are playing right into the hands of the antis. As they say in football, "Act like you been there before".

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Linn County, Iowa, USA
    Posts
    491

    Post imported post

    mohawk001 wrote:
    IA_farmboy wrote:
    - Arizona cannot enforce immigration law without the support and consent of the federal government. That is simply because it is only the federal government that has the database of people that have entered the country lawfully.
    There is no need for a database.* The federal law is that they MUST carry paperwork on them at ALL while in the U.S.* Failure to do so then means they are breaking the law and if they choose not to follow the required law to stay in the U.S. then they must not want to stay after all and need to be sent back to whichever country they came from.
    Without the ability to access the database there is no way to verify that an ID has not been altered, falsified, or revoked. I've heard that even a "green card" that has expired is still valid as long as an application for extension is being processed, so what might facially appear to be an expired ID will show as current in the database.

    Then there is the issue of people that cannot produce a "green card". There is the possibility that the person is an alien here legally and had their "green card" lost/forgotten/stolen. Such a person may be in violation of the law and will have to be handed over to federal officials to get processed.

    There is a possibility that the person accused of being in the country is in fact here illegally, or the person may be a citizen. Both people will not have a "green card" for obvious reasons. For a group of people so adamant that we should not need a "permission slip" to exercise our right to bear arms I find it quite odd that so many feel just as adamant that people should have to carry ID for the mere presence in this country.

    We've heard the terms "driving while Black", and "flying while Arab". Now we will have "armed while Hispanic" from this law. Entering this country without permission is a felony, staying here while armed is another felony, that might just be enough to justify a search under this new law.

    That is why this law is pointless, dangerous, and unconstitutional. I fear the spread of the fear of illegal immigration will create a "papers please" society if it is not stopped at the borders of Arizona. I agree that something must be done about the large amount of people entering the country illegally. What has happened is that the mentality of "something must be done, this is something so it must be done" has taken over and few have stopped to think about the dangers of this law.

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Linn County, Iowa, USA
    Posts
    491

    Post imported post

    PT111 wrote:
    I am not sure that I got the same message out of the linked article that the rest of you did.* I thought the article was about how businesses, such as Startbucks, do get caught in the middle no matter what.* Starbucks plainly stated that they would follow the state laws which most of the general public and gun owners took to mean a pro-gun stance.* By taking this non-stance they lost business, (although probably a small amount) from those boycotting from the left.* If they had caved in and banned guns then they would have lost revenue from those on the Pro gun side. Which way would they have lost the most money is questionable as I really don't see the pro-gun crowd as much of Startbucks fans and the more liberal types but that is neither here nor there.

    I doubt that there are very many businesses that would actually ban guns on their own but rather do so because of pressure from some outside group.* The fellow from Beyond Bread said he wanted to be neutral.* He is being forced to decide which side to take that will cause him to lose the least amount of business.* It is up to the pro-gunners to convince him not to ban guns and by doing so will lose the most.* The other side is not as organized and with the Starbucks deal we have seen that their efforts are not nearly as effective.

    Our role is to make sure that we don't play into the hands of the anti's and help them out.* Sometimes we are going to have to bite our tongue even though we may be*totally in the right.* People wonder why LEO wearing a gun don't upset people like many OC do.* One reason is that LEO are expected to carry a gun but how about plain clothed LEO and sometime why are you asked if you are LEO?**Do you carry it like it is no big deal and just a normal thing or do you try to be sure that everyone in there knows you have a gun.* Your appearance will play a part of it but too many of us inadvertantly give off signs that we are doing something "special".* The public will pick up on that and there are lots of cases where that*is exactly why the confrontation took place.* When someone walks by and you turn to be sure they see your gun you are playing right into the hands of the antis.* As they say in football, "Act like you been there before".
    Considering that Starbuck's announced record sales after this boycott nonsense started it is going to be difficult for the gun grabbers to make their point. The people that fear freedom is vastly outnumbered by those that take self defense seriously.

    The correlation between coffee drinking and liberal thought is an interesting one. One that is not shown in the Starbucks bottom line. But then they do sell more than just coffee, personally I don't drink coffee but I do visit Starbuck's on occasion for their hot cocoa. I recall a conversation with some co-workers over pizza on political views versus taste in pizza. It seems that there was a high correlation between sausage vs. pepperoni and liberal/Democrat/left vs. conservative/Republican/right. I confused them with both my taste in pizza (getting one of each) and political views.

    Anyway, any business person that is unconcerned about the debate should look at how Starbuck's has performed during this debate before taking sides. An uninformed choice could seriously affect their income.

  19. #19
    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    907

    Post imported post

    Entering this country without permission is a felony, staying here while armed is another felony, that might just be enough to justify a search under this new law.
    It's only a misdemeanor to enter theU.S. illegally (it is a felony in Mexico however). It is also a Federal crime not to have one's "papers" if not a citizen.

    And, SB 1070 has nothing to do with armed illegals. That's already covered under Federal and state laws for many years now - they are "prohibited possessors." SB 1070 added nothing new in that regard. It only deals with proving citizenship AFTER being stopped for something else (traffic stop, drug arrest, kidnapping, drunk driving, rape, murder- all the stuff that's normal for illegals to do). Bear in mind that under Federal law, law enforcement does not need any reason to ask anyone for their papers if they think they are not a citizen.

    Fred

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,605

    Post imported post

    Open Carry of a Firearm is not grounds for a Terry Stop.

    Citizens should be free from Terry Stops, but Non-Citizens should be subject to them.

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    , South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    2,247

    Post imported post

    Not saying that there is a correlation between drinking coffee and guns but Starbucks always stuck me more as a liberal hangout than conservative. I really can't say because I have only been in a Startbucks once and almost got thrown out. The "Baristar" or whoevr it was behind the counter asked for my order and I said a large cup of coffee!!!!!!!!! What kind and what size? I said plain cafenated coffee and the biggest cup you have. That didn't go over well as I didn't want any added flavorings or whipped stuff.Just some troublemaker ordering plain coffee and didn't even know what size to order.

    Most gun owners I know prefer rather get a whole pot of coffee for $2 at the General Store than a itty bitty cup for $4. They put more emphasis on the product than the atmoshere. My favorite pizza is canadian bacon and pineapple, now how does that classify me. :celebrate

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Linn County, Iowa, USA
    Posts
    491

    Post imported post

    azcdlfred wrote:
    Entering this country without permission is a felony, staying here while armed is another felony, that might just be enough to justify a search under this new law.
    It's only a misdemeanor to enter the*U.S. illegally (it is a felony in Mexico however).* It is also a Federal crime not to have one's "papers" if not a citizen.*

    And, SB 1070 has nothing to do with armed illegals.* That's already covered under Federal and state laws for many years now - they are "prohibited possessors."* SB 1070 added nothing new in that regard.* It only deals with proving citizenship AFTER being stopped for something else (traffic stop, drug arrest, kidnapping, drunk driving, rape, murder*- all the stuff that's normal for illegals to do).* Bear in mind that under Federal law, law enforcement does not need any reason to ask anyone for their papers if they think they are not a citizen.

    Fred
    My mistake on the punishment for being in the country illegally.

    SB1070 does address armed illegals.

    H. A VIOLATION OF THIS SECTION IS A CLASS 1 MISDEMEANOR, EXCEPT THAT A VIOLATION OF THIS SECTION IS:
    1. A CLASS 3 FELONY IF THE PERSON VIOLATES THIS SECTION WHILE IN POSSESSION OF ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:
    (a) A DANGEROUS DRUG AS DEFINED IN SECTION 13-3401.
    (b) PRECURSOR CHEMICALS THAT ARE USED IN THE MANUFACTURING OF METHAMPHETAMINE IN VIOLATION OF SECTION 13-3404.01.
    (c) A DEADLY WEAPON OR A DANGEROUS INSTRUMENT, AS DEFINED IN SECTION 13-105.
    (d) PROPERTY THAT IS USED FOR THE PURPOSE OF COMMITTING AN ACT OF TERRORISM AS PRESCRIBED IN SECTION 13-2308.01.
    That is also covered under federal law in the "prohibited persons" defined in GCA68.

    So, suppose a coffee vendor sees people that are armed in the store and calls the police being to scared to address the people alone. (It's happened many times before, idiots not knowing it's legal to open carry will call the police.) Once the officer arrives the officer can lawfully investigate and is now permitted, or perhaps even obligated, to verify the lawful presence of those involved. That would mean that if you do not have your ID while armed you are under the suspicion of committing a felony.

    A PERSON IS PRESUMED TO NOT BE AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES IF THE PERSON PROVIDES TO THE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OR AGENCY ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:
    1. A VALID ARIZONA DRIVER LICENSE.
    2. A VALID ARIZONA NONOPERATING IDENTIFICATION LICENSE.
    3. A VALID TRIBAL ENROLLMENT CARD OR OTHER FORM OF TRIBAL IDENTIFICATION.
    4. IF THE ENTITY REQUIRES PROOF OF LEGAL PRESENCE IN THE UNITED STATES BEFORE ISSUANCE, ANY VALID UNITED STATES FEDERAL, STATE OR LOCAL GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION.
    SB1070 just took your unlicensed open carry and flushed it down the toilet. All it did is replace one piece of paper with another.

    If the Arizona legislature was to truly respect our right to self defense then it would not have put enhanced penalties for being armed. This creates cause to investigate since the suspicion of a misdemeanor has a higher threshold of being arrested or detained than the suspicion of a felony.

    If the enhanced penalty for being armed was not in SB1070 then I would not have much to complain about and it would very likely be off-topic for this forum.

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Linn County, Iowa, USA
    Posts
    491

    Post imported post

    PT111 wrote:
    Not saying that there is a correlation between drinking coffee and guns but Starbucks always stuck me more as a liberal hangout than conservative.* I really can't say because I have only been in a Startbucks once and almost got thrown out.* The "Baristar" or whoevr it was behind the counter asked for my order and I said a large cup of coffee!!!!!!!!!* What kind and what size?* I said plain cafenated coffee and the biggest cup you have.* That didn't go over well as I didn't want any added flavorings or whipped stuff.*Just some troublemaker ordering plain coffee and didn't even know what size to order.

    Most gun owners I know prefer rather get a whole pot of coffee for $2 at the General Store than a itty bitty cup for $4. They put more emphasis on the product than the atmoshere.* My favorite pizza is canadian bacon and pineapple, now how does that classify me. :celebrate
    Those crazy people from Dubuque seem to have a taste for canadian bacon on their pizza. Some with pineapple, some with sauerkraut. The sauerkraut can be explained with the German ancestry of many in the area. That pineapple though boggles the mind as I don't think that grows in Ireland. Iowa is not known for having much tropical weather and so there are few here that migrated from such climates.

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Linn County, Iowa, USA
    Posts
    491

    Post imported post

    aadvark wrote:
    Open Carry of a Firearm is not grounds for a Terry Stop.

    Citizens should be free from Terry Stops, but Non-Citizens should be subject to them.
    Interesting. Just how do you propose determining that a person is not a citizen before being stopped and asked for "papers"?

    One major problem with SB1070 is that it creates the atmosphere of "guilty until proven innocent" by assuming that a person an illegal alien until proven otherwise. It is precisely because of an illegal alien that "Mirandize" is now a common verb in our language. Our rights should not be dependent on our citizenship, and that includes the right of self defense.

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Sierra Vista, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    113

    Post imported post

    I expect to see your case in court within the next few days because I know that you, as a responsible citizen, will do your best to take down what you feel is an unconstitutional law. Either that, or stay in IA and leave us to enjoy our state and it's laws that do not concern you. Or are you afraid that you'll be deported if you decide to visit our great state? Perhaps we can talk next about how stupid many of the IA laws are?

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •