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Thread: what would u do in this hostage situation?

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    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Where am I? What kind of weaponry do I have at my disposal? Who else is around and what is their relationship to the situation? What kind of cover and/or concealment is available and is the hostage taker aware of my presence? What mitigating factors exist that have clarified to me that the hostage taker is, indeed, the bad guy here?

    If all of those variables become known, then I might be able to provide some type of response on my possible actions.

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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    "Happiness is a warm shotgun!!"
    "I am neither a pessimist nor a cynic. I am, rather, a realist."
    "The most dangerous things I've ever encountered were a Second Lieutenant with a map and a compass and a Private who was bored and had time on his hands."

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    Probably die.

    How the hell did I get into it?

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    Is that Sonny Puzikas? Former Spetsnaz operator..

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    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Aaron1124 wrote:
    Is that Sonny Puzikas? Former Spetsnaz operator..
    Not sure, but the hostage taker looks like Gabe Suarez to me.

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    Do what the instructor of the class this photo was taken from tells me to do.

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    The hostage taker is, in fact, Sonny Puzikas. He's on my Facebook friends list, and I thought he looked familiar. He has that exact picture up. Sonny is a legit bada$$ and former Spetsnaz operator.

    He teaches classes as Progressive Combat.

    Here's another one of him in class



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    You might be able to pull off a tittie twister if you are quick enough but I think you are goin to get cut either way.....Pray is what i would do.

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    can someone please define operator for me
    I have seen it used to describe people who wish they were millitary
    people who are millitary and people who were
    id like to know what it means haha

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    Regular Member tdbarge's Avatar
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    pull out my "layzer" attached to my weapon and scare the badey away!!!!

    And as for that other picture, isn't dancing with a weapon a bad thing? Gun play and all that?

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    Beerme wrote:
    can someone please define operator for me
    I have seen it used to describe people who wish they were millitary
    people who are millitary and people who were
    id like to know what it means haha
    It was a term I used to let people know what he's done. It's also commonly used when describing his service. The word "Operator" would be an operative who carries out operations for military or paramilitary organizations.

    "Mr. Puzikas is a highly skilled operator gaining his experience from the special purpose unit (Spetsnaz) in USSR MVD. He has received extensive specialized training in small unit special tactics, urban and mountainous terrain warfare, crowd/ riot control, small arms (domestic and foreign), demolitions, survival in hostile environment and CQB. Extensive training on subject of physical security of top level military nuclear installations and specialized instructor course on subject of terrorism and anti-terrorism. Participated in several special operations. Sonny was born and raised in former Soviet Union. His Formal training started in 1977 with Sonny training in Judo. From 1980 through 1985 Sonny studied Kiokushinkai formally, Sambo, Muai Thai and boxing in informal “basement” settings. Notable in Soviet Union instructors were his guides, including 2 USSR champions in full contact Karate and assistant coach for Soviet Olympic Judo team.
    Sonny entered military service in late 1980’s and after the basic training was chosen for service in special purpose unit of Soviet MVD (Ministry of Internal Affairs). The reality of violence was exposed from a very different perspective with many revelations and learning experiences coming not only from very intense and brutal training regiment, but also from operational deployments to central Asia and Caucasus regions with his Spetsnaz unit, as well as work in some correctional institutions in Siberia and Far East. Extensive interaction with personnel from special purpose units from KGB, GRU and other entities provided opportunities to learn and polish new skills in areas of armed and unarmed combat, tactics and field craft, fighting methods based on native Russian combat arts. After the military service Sonny traveled extensively throughout Russia and Middle East providing protective services."





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    Beerme wrote:
    can someone please define operator for me
    I have seen it used to describe people who wish they were military
    people who are military and people who were
    id like to know what it means haha
    Someone who is a skillful tactician-er in warfare. The only person/s I would referrer to as a operator is someone who is in the special forces community period. Yes there are those who are Infantry as myself, but the skill set we have is no where close to those of the special forces.
    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
    -Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    Marine General James Mattis,

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    I would sic my frickin' shark with a frickin' laser on his head on him.

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Beerme wrote:
    can someone please define operator for me
    I have seen it used to describe people who wish they were millitary
    people who are millitary and people who were
    id like to know what it means haha
    I think what these folks are trying to say in a glorified, "fluff it up" sort of way is that "operator" is just a spiffy term for a mercenary.

    Let's be honest here folks...

    "Operators" tend to have extensive military or tactical training. They tend to have experience as "special forces" in the military, and often have extensive combat experience. The tend to be employed by the "intelligence community" or private contractors, and are the people who are called on to preform certain tasks that are too morally distasteful, illegal, or politically sensitive to use official military troops.

    "Operators" are what the term "plausible deniability" was created to describe...

    Let's be honest here folks. There are dirty jobs, and someone has to do them. When Haliburton, Goldman Sachs, KBR, Dyncorp, Lockheed Martin or BP says a job needs to be done, they are going to call the "best", an the "best" are often people like this--folks who are trained in the sociopathic killing, mayhem creation and overall destructive behavior that, when done under the guise of "operations" is OK, but when the same acts, done for the same reason, by the same kinds of people but working for governments or organizations that are not "on the team" (meaning they aren't signatories to the IMF or aren't part of the international military-industrial complex) they are labeled "terrorists"...

    But let's be honest here folks. The only REAL difference between an "operator", a "terrorist", and a serial killer is where they get their paycheck...

    An "operator" is simply a VERY well-trained and effective sociopath with official sanction and a lot of really cool toys...

    And you've got to understand exactly what Spetznaz was. We have no functional equivalent here in the US. Spetsnaz was essentially an elite paramilitary unit that was NOT under the Soviet Ministry of Defense. They were under the Ministry of Internal Affairs, which is sort of like a combination of the CIA and the State Department here in the US. Spetsnaz was essentially the enforcement arm of the Soviet Intelligence community. Here in the US, when the Intelligence community wants to cause mayhem abroad, or harass or assassinate people, they usually hire mercs. The Soviets felt it was much more controllable to just have an officially-sanctioned paramilitary unit for those tasks. So they were, for all intents and purposes, state-sponsored mercenaries.

    Imagine the baddest SEAL team you can thing of, and then turn them loose on the citizens of the USA as a force for intimidation, propaganda, enforcement, and false flag operations, and you've got the basic idea behind Spetsnaz...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggressionand this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Actually, Spetsnaz can be under Federal Security Service (FSB) or Internal Troops of Russian Ministry of Internal Affairs.

    I'll paste your comments to Sonny himself and see what his opinions are. I chat with him on Facebook.

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    Regular Member OrangeIsTrouble's Avatar
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    Call Jack Bauer.


    Been harassed by the police? Yelled at by the anti-gun neighbors? Mother doesn't approve?

    Then this is the place for you! Click here to get back at them!

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    Dreamer wrote:
    Beerme wrote:
    can someone please define operator for me
    I have seen it used to describe people who wish they were millitary
    people who are millitary and people who were
    id like to know what it means haha
    I think what these folks are trying to say in a glorified, "fluff it up" sort of way is that "operator" is just a spiffy term for a mercenary.

    Let's be honest here folks...

    "Operators" tend to have extensive military or tactical training. They tend to have experience as "special forces" in the military, and often have extensive combat experience. The tend to be employed by the "intelligence community" or private contractors, and are the people who are called on to preform certain tasks that are too morally distasteful, illegal, or politically sensitive to use official military troops.

    "Operators" are what the term "plausible deniability" was created to describe...

    Let's be honest here folks. There are dirty jobs, and someone has to do them. When Haliburton, Goldman Sachs, KBR, Dyncorp, Lockheed Martin or BP says a job needs to be done, they are going to call the "best", an the "best" are often people like this--folks who are trained in the sociopathic killing, mayhem creation and overall destructive behavior that, when done under the guise of "operations" is OK, but when the same acts, done for the same reason, by the same kinds of people but working for governments or organizations that are not "on the team" (meaning they aren't signatories to the IMF or aren't part of the international military-industrial complex) they are labeled "terrorists"...

    But let's be honest here folks. The only REAL difference between an "operator", a "terrorist", and a serial killer is where they get their paycheck...

    An "operator" is simply a VERY well-trained and effective sociopath with official sanction and a lot of really cool toys...

    And you've got to understand exactly what Spetznaz was. We have no functional equivalent here in the US. Spetsnaz was essentially an elite paramilitary unit that was NOT under the Soviet Ministry of Defense. They were under the Ministry of Internal Affairs, which is sort of like a combination of the CIA and the State Department here in the US. Spetsnaz was essentially the enforcement arm of the Soviet Intelligence community. Here in the US, when the Intelligence community wants to cause mayhem abroad, or harass or assassinate people, they usually hire mercs. The Soviets felt it was much more controllable to just have an officially-sanctioned paramilitary unit for those tasks. So they were, for all intents and purposes, state-sponsored mercenaries.

    Imagine the baddest SEAL team you can thing of, and then turn them loose on the citizens of the USA as a force for intimidation, propaganda, enforcement, and false flag operations, and you've got the basic idea behind Spetsnaz...
    Yeah, these guys are real sociopaths.



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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Aaron1124 wrote:
    Actually, Spetsnaz can be under Federal Security Service (FSB) or Internal Troops of Russian Ministry of Internal Affairs.

    I'll paste your comments to Sonny himself and see what his opinions are. I chat with him on Facebook.
    You do that...

    And while you're at it, ask him about the REAL story behind Georgia event of 2008, or Beslan (2004), unless you're worried you might end up like Alexander Litvinenko for bringing up that "touchy" topic...

    Don't get me wrong. When it comes to people like this, I'd rather they were doing their deeds under the auspices of a government than acting as "freelancers", because at least this way there is some overseeing body to keep them reigned in.

    But mercs are mercs, and the fact is that just like the CIA's "black ops", groups like Spetsnaz are just the "enforcer" arms of the people who really "pull the strings" of international intrigue, and I'm not talking about the people in the capitol buildings.

    I don't hate the players, but I do hate the bigger "game" because 99% of the time it has nothing to do with the "official story" in these sort of operations. History has shown that nearly EVERY "covert op" was actually put into motion to meet some sort of totalitarian agenda--NOT to increase freedom or liberty--and the real faces behind such actions are only interested increasing their own personal power and further oppressing the people of this planet.

    Actually, I sort of pity these "operators" because most of them are actually very patriotic, honorable, and dedicated. The fact that they have been duped into acting as agent provocateurs for the "real powers" is sort of sad. Imagine what these highly-motivated and expertly trained troops could do if they were working for people who actually valued liberty, freedom and individual freedom...

    Personally, I think we should pull our troops out of Afghanistan, and re-station them in Manhattan, so they can start doing "door to doors" there, and rounding up the REAL terrorists...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggressionand this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    are we supposed to answer this as if were the hostage? or come across it.

    if i was the hostage,id be screwed,but i would like to think that i wouldnt let myself get into that situation.

    if i came across it,911 and report whats going on,but if i was required to act before LEO's arrived,aim at the biggest part of the hostage takers body that is visible,try to get to his side if he wasnt already aware of me,i feel shooting that hostage taker in the side would be the safest option if required to shoot,its the largest target your going to get of him safely.

    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    U8Dust wrote:
    1. That knife isn't in position to hit a vital.
    2. Shooter's Line Of Site is limited and not in-line with his weapon.
    3. Shooter's gun-hand is locked around the hostages arms tightly, with wrist at odd angle.
    He has almost no useful range of motion. This makes for poor gun handling.
    4. After Shooter's first @#$%ty shot from his glock, the hostage WILL FLINCH and pull on
    his arm, making all subsequent shots useless.

    Conclusion:: Guy looks bad-ass. This hostage taking position looks bad-ass. When I evaluate the body mechanics of the situation, I conclude it would be a @#$%ty place to try and shoot from. Then again most human shield situations are fubar from the beginning.

    What I would do:
    AS SHOOTER: No clue. I can't put myself into that mindset.
    AS HOSTAGE: Struggle as much as possible. (He can't afford to kill me without dying 1.5 seconds later.) This will distract the shooter and give GG more time to deploy/determine plan of action. Personally I weigh 350lbs, so I'd fall to my knees and forward, pulling him onto my back and opening a shot. If no GG on scene he wouldn't need a hostage.
    AS GOOD GUY: (If bad guy is retreating or advancing)
    1- disable gun arm: Shoot at hostage's and badguy's left shoulder/elbow/arm. The hostage will fall down and to his right when his left arm is free (especially if you hit him too). If shot opens, take it. (remember knife is not against vitals)
    2- (less control) - shoot legs, preferable hostage only, see how long BG can carry a person around and aim weapon at same time. (I'm guessing not long).
    AS GOOD GUY: (If bad guy is static)
    Call 911 / swat / A-Team

    Please note: These are under the assumption that if I am used as a shield/hostage and the BG gets away I will then be killed. Reverse as well, if someone has a hostage and takes them away I can only assume they will be killed. Therefor I am willing to take actions where the hostages survival chances are low.

    I am not an 'operator' so am working with what little skill I have. If I was spetznaz or krav-maga or a swat member on scene, I'm sure I'd have a much better solution.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
    G19 Gen 4; Bersa Thunder 380; Sig Sauer P238; Kel-Tec su-16c

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    Regular Member 25sierraman's Avatar
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    Step 1 - Soil myself

    Step 2 - Denial

    Step 3 - Figure out how this is my Wife's fault.

    Step 4 - Try to not cry

    Step 5 - Hope.
    HOOAH?

  25. #25
    Regular Member virginiatuck's Avatar
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    First, tell everyone to put their weapons down or the [high-value hostage] will die. Then make demands, such as money, escape vehicle, safe passage. Finally, escape and then kill the hostage.

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