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what would u do in this hostage situation?

lil_freak_66

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are we supposed to answer this as if were the hostage? or come across it.

if i was the hostage,id be screwed,but i would like to think that i wouldnt let myself get into that situation.

if i came across it,911 and report whats going on,but if i was required to act before LEO's arrived,aim at the biggest part of the hostage takers body that is visible,try to get to his side if he wasnt already aware of me,i feel shooting that hostage taker in the side would be the safest option if required to shoot,its the largest target your going to get of him safely.
 

simmonsjoe

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U8Dust wrote:
29251_1378426834409_1644051764_906245_2061876_n.jpg
1. That knife isn't in position to hit a vital.
2. Shooter's Line Of Site is limited and not in-line with his weapon.
3. Shooter's gun-hand is locked around the hostages arms tightly, with wrist at odd angle.
He has almost no useful range of motion. This makes for poor gun handling.
4. After Shooter's first @#$%ty shot from his glock, the hostage WILL FLINCH and pull on
his arm, making all subsequent shots useless.

Conclusion:: Guy looks bad-ass. This hostage taking position looks bad-ass. When I evaluate the body mechanics of the situation, I conclude it would be a @#$%ty place to try and shoot from. Then again most human shield situations are fubar from the beginning.

What I would do:
AS SHOOTER: No clue. I can't put myself into that mindset.
AS HOSTAGE: Struggle as much as possible. (He can't afford to kill me without dying 1.5 seconds later.) This will distract the shooter and give GG more time to deploy/determine plan of action. Personally I weigh 350lbs, so I'd fall to my knees and forward, pulling him onto my back and opening a shot. If no GG on scene he wouldn't need a hostage.
AS GOOD GUY: (If bad guy is retreating or advancing)
1- disable gun arm: Shoot at hostage's and badguy's left shoulder/elbow/arm. The hostage will fall down and to his right when his left arm is free (especially if you hit him too). If shot opens, take it. (remember knife is not against vitals)
2- (less control) - shoot legs, preferable hostage only, see how long BG can carry a person around and aim weapon at same time. (I'm guessing not long).
AS GOOD GUY: (If bad guy is static)
Call 911 / swat / A-Team

Please note: These are under the assumption that if I am used as a shield/hostage and the BG gets away I will then be killed. Reverse as well, if someone has a hostage and takes them away I can only assume they will be killed. Therefor I am willing to take actions where the hostages survival chances are low.

I am not an 'operator' so am working with what little skill I have. If I was spetznaz or krav-maga or a swat member on scene, I'm sure I'd have a much better solution.
 

virginiatuck

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First, tell everyone to put their weapons down or the [high-value hostage] will die. Then make demands, such as money, escape vehicle, safe passage. Finally, escape and then kill the hostage. ;)
 

Yard Sale

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U8Dust wrote:
Sight picture, trigger squeeze, follow through. Look around and say, "Sorry for the mess" like Han Solo while exiting. If the hostage taker was a dick, teabag his corpse for good measure.
 

Packer fan

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25sierraman wrote:
Step 1 - Soil myself

Step 2 - Denial

Step 3 - Figure out how this is my Wife's fault.

Step 4 - Try to not cry

Step 5 - Hope.


That is funny. Above is what would go through my mind.

What I am training to do/
Rotate into gun man,
Penetrate as close is I can
Injure until threat is gone.

But until my training is complete see the five steps.

:lol:

Edited:Step 6 - Yell at my Wife if she misses.
 

Aaron1124

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I'm trying to figure out exactly which way to rotate. Rotate to your left, you're spinning into a blade. You can't really rotate to your right, because, well, he's got arm and neck control.
 

zack991

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Aaron1124 wrote:
Dreamer wrote:
Beerme wrote:
can someone please define operator for me
I have seen it used to describe people who wish they were millitary
people who are millitary and people who were
id like to know what it means haha

I think what these folks are trying to say in a glorified, "fluff it up" sort of way is that "operator" is just a spiffy term for a mercenary.

Let's be honest here folks...

"Operators" tend to have extensive military or tactical training. They tend to have experience as "special forces" in the military, and often have extensive combat experience. The tend to be employed by the "intelligence community" or private contractors, and are the people who are called on to preform certain tasks that are too morally distasteful, illegal, or politically sensitive to use official military troops.

"Operators" are what the term "plausible deniability" was created to describe...

Let's be honest here folks. There are dirty jobs, and someone has to do them. When Haliburton, Goldman Sachs, KBR, Dyncorp, Lockheed Martin or BP says a job needs to be done, they are going to call the "best", an the "best" are often people like this--folks who are trained in the sociopathic killing, mayhem creation and overall destructive behavior that, when done under the guise of "operations" is OK, but when the same acts, done for the same reason, by the same kinds of people but working for governments or organizations that are not "on the team" (meaning they aren't signatories to the IMF or aren't part of the international military-industrial complex) they are labeled "terrorists"...

But let's be honest here folks. The only REAL difference between an "operator", a "terrorist", and a serial killer is where they get their paycheck...

An "operator" is simply a VERY well-trained and effective sociopath with official sanction and a lot of really cool toys...

And you've got to understand exactly what Spetznaz was. We have no functional equivalent here in the US. Spetsnaz was essentially an elite paramilitary unit that was NOT under the Soviet Ministry of Defense. They were under the Ministry of Internal Affairs, which is sort of like a combination of the CIA and the State Department here in the US. Spetsnaz was essentially the enforcement arm of the Soviet Intelligence community. Here in the US, when the Intelligence community wants to cause mayhem abroad, or harass or assassinate people, they usually hire mercs. The Soviets felt it was much more controllable to just have an officially-sanctioned paramilitary unit for those tasks. So they were, for all intents and purposes, state-sponsored mercenaries.

Imagine the baddest SEAL team you can thing of, and then turn them loose on the citizens of the USA as a force for intimidation, propaganda, enforcement, and false flag operations, and you've got the basic idea behind Spetsnaz...
Yeah, these guys are real sociopaths.

29802_1361936262155_1644051764_874030_4184178_n.jpg
Agreed, I bet my enitire paycheck he would never say anything like this to these heros faces, nor does Dreamer have a damn clue to what he is talking about. He is trying to sound like an expert. Dreamer needs to do us all a favor and stop his arm chair commandos nonsense.
 

SlackwareRobert

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I would warn him that he needs a license to pierce ears and he is in a whole
lot of trouble if he makes the hole. :banghead:
What is going on on the lower half of the bodies? Where are the feet positioned?
Tumble backwards he doesn't look bright enough to not try and break the fall,
on impact you bring your hands in and should cause some fractures to his tensed
arms and wrists at the least.

Myself I will use step 1 as a distraction, most BG don't go for being sh*t on. :shock:
Kick the fire ant hill, yes you will get attacked, but so will he, if he can maintain
his control while being bitten by a few thousand fire ants, I didn't have a chance anyways. :(

Of course I would have been firing long before he got in knife range. Looks like
at least 25 yards from nearest cover he could have attacked from.

Come across this event, I would ram him in the back with my 3 meter sail plane,
it should take him out with a modest whisper before impact. There is no other
reason I would be in a nice open field except to catch some thermals. :cool:

I think the "pizza guy" is a much worse event. When the BG has no say so
of when he goes off, you have a lot more danger than from someone who wants
to stay breathing.
 

Packer fan

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Aaron1124 wrote:
I'm trying to figure out exactly which way to rotate. Rotate to your left, you're spinning into a blade. You can't really rotate to your right, because, well, he's got arm and neck control.


Look at the targets he is leaving open to you;

If you can't take the your right arm down and cause the knife to drop, yes you may will get cut but you won't notice until all is done, then break the the knee. The person will go down, then you can turn and pick another target to break such as the eyes, neck, wrist or anything that will cause injury. The goal is to break the man. Will the gun go off, yes, will the knife cut you, yes, but if you are injuring a person to the point that his knee is bent in two from you putting your whole body weight into it, he isn't going to be thinking where is the gun pointing and what is the knife doing. He is going to be thinking of the pain. Literally break the body.

http://www.targetfocustraining.com/
Good resource for anyone. You can learn this in less than two days.
Well worth the money I spent.

I'm not claiming that I won't soil my pants and be afraid for my life but I will be thinking of options open to me.
 

simmonsjoe

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Mattaponi, Virginia, United States
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Semper Paratus wrote:
Ironbar wrote:
simmonsjoe wrote:
1. That knife isn't in position to hit a vital.
I don't know about you, but I consider blood flow to my brain via the juglar to be quite "vital".
Also all the nerves that controll body functionon that side of the body are there.
No and No. Biology fail. What is there is a @#$%load of tough tendons attached to your skull.
It would require a stabbing motion to reach the spinal chord.
The Jugular is, from the side and rear, protected by some very strong muscles/tendons.
Look at the picture again. Because of how he is holding the hostage, he can only slice, and he can not reach forward enough for a single slice to be effective.

These muscles and tendons are some of the toughest in your body. So tough that if you get really bad whiplash, instead of ripping the muscle/tendon it tears off the base of your skull. (Basular skull fracture).
 

simmonsjoe

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zack991 wrote:
Aaron1124 wrote:
Dreamer wrote:
Beerme wrote:
can someone please define operator for me
I have seen it used to describe people who wish they were millitary
people who are millitary and people who were
id like to know what it means haha

I think what these folks are trying to say in a glorified, "fluff it up" sort of way is that "operator" is just a spiffy term for a mercenary.

Let's be honest here folks...

"Operators" tend to have extensive military or tactical training. They tend to have experience as "special forces" in the military, and often have extensive combat experience. The tend to be employed by the "intelligence community" or private contractors, and are the people who are called on to preform certain tasks that are too morally distasteful, illegal, or politically sensitive to use official military troops.

"Operators" are what the term "plausible deniability" was created to describe...

Let's be honest here folks. There are dirty jobs, and someone has to do them. When Haliburton, Goldman Sachs, KBR, Dyncorp, Lockheed Martin or BP says a job needs to be done, they are going to call the "best", an the "best" are often people like this--folks who are trained in the sociopathic killing, mayhem creation and overall destructive behavior that, when done under the guise of "operations" is OK, but when the same acts, done for the same reason, by the same kinds of people but working for governments or organizations that are not "on the team" (meaning they aren't signatories to the IMF or aren't part of the international military-industrial complex) they are labeled "terrorists"...

But let's be honest here folks. The only REAL difference between an "operator", a "terrorist", and a serial killer is where they get their paycheck...

An "operator" is simply a VERY well-trained and effective sociopath with official sanction and a lot of really cool toys...

And you've got to understand exactly what Spetznaz was. We have no functional equivalent here in the US. Spetsnaz was essentially an elite paramilitary unit that was NOT under the Soviet Ministry of Defense. They were under the Ministry of Internal Affairs, which is sort of like a combination of the CIA and the State Department here in the US. Spetsnaz was essentially the enforcement arm of the Soviet Intelligence community. Here in the US, when the Intelligence community wants to cause mayhem abroad, or harass or assassinate people, they usually hire mercs. The Soviets felt it was much more controllable to just have an officially-sanctioned paramilitary unit for those tasks. So they were, for all intents and purposes, state-sponsored mercenaries.

Imagine the baddest SEAL team you can thing of, and then turn them loose on the citizens of the USA as a force for intimidation, propaganda, enforcement, and false flag operations, and you've got the basic idea behind Spetsnaz...
Yeah, these guys are real sociopaths.

29802_1361936262155_1644051764_874030_4184178_n.jpg
Agreed, I bet my enitire paycheck he would never say anything like this to these heros faces, nor does Dreamer have a damn clue to what he is talking about. He is trying to sound like an expert. Dreamer needs to do us all a favor and stop his arm chair commandos nonsense.
I think he makes sense.
 

novasig226r

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What would I do?

Hope I saved at the last checkpoint so I can retry again if BG gets me. Otherwise, I might try to advance under cover and let Price, Soap, or Ghost take him out while I hunker behind a heavy object controlling the Predator drone.

Oh, you meant in real life, not Modern Warfare 2... :cool:

I don't know, if I stumbled on this situation at my local mall or movie house, I might yell over to the hostage that he's screwed. I'm not giving up my place in line at the concession stand. When I got home, I'd write a stern letter to the management that guns are not allowed in their establishment.
 

Aaron1124

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novasig226r wrote:
What would I do?

Hope I saved at the last checkpoint so I can retry again if BG gets me. Otherwise, I might try to advance under cover and let Price, Soap, or Ghost take him out while I hunker behind a heavy object controlling the Predator drone.

Oh, you meant in real life, not Modern Warfare 2... :cool:

I don't know, if I stumbled on this situation at my local mall or movie house, I might yell over to the hostage that he's screwed. I'm not giving up my place in line at the concession stand. When I got home, I'd write a stern letter to the management that guns are not allowed in their establishment.
Best answer yet..
 

simmonsjoe

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Aaron1124 wrote:
novasig226r wrote:
What would I do?

Hope I saved at the last checkpoint so I can retry again if BG gets me. Otherwise, I might try to advance under cover and let Price, Soap, or Ghost take him out while I hunker behind a heavy object controlling the Predator drone.

Oh, you meant in real life, not Modern Warfare 2... :cool:

I don't know, if I stumbled on this situation at my local mall or movie house, I might yell over to the hostage that he's screwed. I'm not giving up my place in line at the concession stand. When I got home, I'd write a stern letter to the management that guns are not allowed in their establishment.
Best answer yet..
+1
 
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