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Thread: Is an H&K MP5K Considered a "Pistol'?

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    Not that I own one or plan on buying one in the future, but I keep seeing MP5K semi-auto clones being sold at various gun stores/shows.

    I was wondering if they are considered a "pistol" or not. They can't be classified as a "sub-machine gun" because they are not semi-auto. Can't be classified as a rifle because it doesn't shoot rifle ammo. Shotgun is pretty obvious which leaves one option.

    Anyway...if you have your CPL could you concealed carry your MP5K clone in a small backpack?
    I always open carry one of my Kimber 1911 pistols everywhere I go. Usually in a paddle holster. Nothing fancy, but it works for me.

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    If it has a butt stock or forward grib, then it's a SBR and you must get the tax stamp.

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    "The Expert" is asking us?

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    .

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    coffee4meplz wrote:
    If it has a butt stock or forward grib, then it's a SBR and you must get the tax stamp.
    not necessarily a SBR, it could be a Serbu Super Shorty 12g shot gun...it's an AOW but as you said it too needs a tax stamp.

    The good thing is it's only a $5 AOW Tax Stamp

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    An MP5 is a SBR. (pictured above)

    But an MP5K (pictured below)

    Is a Michigan pistol and can be carried under the law just like any other pistol.

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    The ammo type doesn't matter. What matters is barrel length, total length, shoulder stock, and vertical grips. There are lots of cool pistols out there.

    pps pistol

    vector 308 pistol

    vector 223 pistol

    draco pistol

    vector mp5 pistolreceivers

    sp89 mp5 pistols

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    Mike.... the VFG makes it an AOW afaik...

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    mikestilly wrote:


    But an MP5K (pictured below)

    Is a Michigan pistol and can be carried under the law just like any other pistol.
    I know MI has some strange laws on pistols and rifle. Are you sure that is not an AOW according to federal law? It has two vertical grips and a short barrel. Isn't that the same as putting a second vertical grip on a glock pistol?

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    kwikrnu wrote:
    mikestilly wrote:


    But an MP5K (pictured below)

    Is a Michigan pistol and can be carried under the law just like any other pistol.
    I know MI has some strange laws on pistols and rifle. Are you sure that is not an AOW according to federal law? It has two vertical grips and a short barrel. Isn't that the same as putting a second vertical grip on a glock pistol?
    http://www.firearmowners.com/index.p...ichigan-pistol

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    mikestilly wrote:
    kwikrnu wrote:
    mikestilly wrote:


    But an MP5K (pictured below)

    Is a Michigan pistol and can be carried under the law just like any other pistol.
    I know MI has some strange laws on pistols and rifle. Are you sure that is not an AOW according to federal law? It has two vertical grips and a short barrel. Isn't that the same as putting a second vertical grip on a glock pistol?
    http://www.firearmowners.com/index.p...ichigan-pistol

    So it appears according to the link that it is a pistol under MI law. Since the feds say that is not a pistol, but rather an any other weapon, do the Feds prosecute people withthat type of non nfa registeredtypes of firearms in MI?


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    dougwg wrote:
    "The Expert" is asking us?
    You crack me up. I pick that ID on all the forum I join because a) I was both a pistol and rifle expert in the Marine Corps and b) the user name usually is available.
    I always open carry one of my Kimber 1911 pistols everywhere I go. Usually in a paddle holster. Nothing fancy, but it works for me.

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    Just pointing out the obvious irony

    And yes, under MI law that is a Pistol.....but at the same time, Federally, it's an AOW with the VFG.

    So, you fill out the BS gubment paperwork and send them a check for $5....wait....wait....get approved, go get the gun and then register it as a pistol in MI.

    Then let me know, cuz I want to shoot it too.

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    mikestilly wrote:
    kwikrnu wrote:
    mikestilly wrote:


    But an MP5K (pictured below)

    Is a Michigan pistol and can be carried under the law just like any other pistol.
    I know MI has some strange laws on pistols and rifle. Are you sure that is not an AOW according to federal law? It has two vertical grips and a short barrel. Isn't that the same as putting a second vertical grip on a glock pistol?
    http://www.firearmowners.com/index.p...ichigan-pistol
    That link says that it has to have a 16" barrel to be a Michigan pistol. Does this gun come with a 16" barrel to be a legal Michigan pistol? Is there some kind of law reference to read that the link is based on? Was that link written by a lawyer? I'd like to know more.

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    dougwg wrote:
    Just pointing out the obvious irony

    And yes, under MI law that is a Pistol.....but at the same time, Federally, it's an AOW with the VFG.

    So, you fill out the BS gubment paperwork and send them a check for $5....wait....wait....get approved, go get the gun and then register it as a pistol in MI.

    Then let me know, cuz I want to shoot it too.
    Isn't it $200 for the stamp and $5 if you want to transfer it later?

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    someone told me MP5 was easy to turn full auto without extra parts. he explained it but i didn't understand parts and you would have to know the insides to do it. of course wouldn't do it and if you got caught you would be in prison next to kwame.
    that's the weapons the terrorists had in Die Hard and sucks as a secondary weapon when playing SOCOM Navy Seals 2 on PSP.

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    The Expert wrote:
    Not that I own one or plan on buying one in the future, but I keep seeing MP5K semi-auto clones being sold at various gun stores/shows.

    I was wondering if they are considered a "pistol" or not.* They can't be classified as a "sub-machine gun" because they are not semi-auto.* Can't be classified as a rifle because it doesn't shoot rifle ammo.* Shotgun is pretty obvious which leaves one option.

    Anyway...if you have your CPL could you concealed carry your MP5K clone in a small backpack?
    They aren't MP5 "clones" per say.

    They're made by a company that previously made Airsoft guns, and the overall quality is reflective of that. ATI, GSG5 series. The model you're talking about is the GSG5PK.

    They'll shoot as well as a 10/22, but they don't "feel" as solid.

    They're ALL chambered in .22 LR.

    Legally, the GSG5PK is a pistol. If you put a foregrip on a pistol, it is no longer "designed to be operated with one hand", and it's now an AOW.



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    kwikrnu wrote:
    dougwg wrote:
    Just pointing out the obvious irony

    And yes, under MI law that is a Pistol.....but at the same time, Federally, it's an AOW with the VFG.

    So, you fill out the BS gubment paperwork and send them a check for $5....wait....wait....get approved, go get the gun and then register it as a pistol in MI.

    Then let me know, cuz I want to shoot it too.
    Isn't it $200 for the stamp and $5 if you want to transfer it later?
    A stamp for a AOW is 5 bucks, auto weapons and silencers are 200

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    choover wrote:
    kwikrnu wrote:
    dougwg wrote:
    Just pointing out the obvious irony

    And yes, under MI law that is a Pistol.....but at the same time, Federally, it's an AOW with the VFG.

    So, you fill out the BS gubment paperwork and send them a check for $5....wait....wait....get approved, go get the gun and then register it as a pistol in MI.

    Then let me know, cuz I want to shoot it too.
    Isn't it $200 for the stamp and $5 if you want to transfer it later?
    A stamp for a AOW is 5 bucks, auto weapons and silencers are 200
    Read into AOWs a little more.

    Creation of an AOW is $200 (aka, adding a VFG to a pistol).
    Transfer is $5 (Pistol already has a legal VFG, and is changing possession).

    I'd love a Serbu Super-Shorty for campus carry if it's ever legalized.

    -Richard-

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    office888 wrote:
    The Expert wrote:
    Not that I own one or plan on buying one in the future, but I keep seeing MP5K semi-auto clones being sold at various gun stores/shows.

    I was wondering if they are considered a "pistol" or not.* They can't be classified as a "sub-machine gun" because they are not semi-auto.* Can't be classified as a rifle because it doesn't shoot rifle ammo.* Shotgun is pretty obvious which leaves one option.

    Anyway...if you have your CPL could you concealed carry your MP5K clone in a small backpack?
    They aren't MP5 "clones" per say.

    They're made by a company that previously made Airsoft guns, and the overall quality is reflective of that. ATI, GSG5 series. The model you're talking about is the GSG5PK.

    They'll shoot as well as a 10/22, but they don't "feel" as solid.

    They're ALL chambered in .22 LR.

    Legally, the GSG5PK is a pistol. If you put a foregrip on a pistol, it is no longer "designed to be operated with one hand", and it's now an AOW.



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    Actually the original is made by H&K but there are many clones made by many different manufacturers, in a wide variety of cals 9, 10, 22, 40, 45, ... There are many that are configured for full auto and all you need to do is drop in a auto sear. The price for a good one is steep especially if it's a true H&K. What was that quote above about it not being semi auto? What the heck are you talking about? If it's registered as a pistol you can carry it just as if it were any other pistol. Same laws apply concealed or open carry.

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    mikestilly wrote:
    Actually the original is made by H&K but there are many clones made by many different manufacturers, in a wide variety of cals 9, 10, 22, 40, 45, ... There are many that are configured for full auto and all you need to do is drop in a auto sear. The price for a good one is steep especially if it's a true H&K. What was that quote above about it not being semi auto? What the heck are you talking about? If it's registered as a pistol you can carry it just as if it were any other pistol. Same laws apply concealed or open carry.[/quote]

    Yeah, the original is made by Heckler & Koch GmbH.

    Most commonly found in 9x19, it can also be found in 10mm, and .40 S&W. I think the .45 ACP SMG they made was only the UMP. I could be wrong.

    However, the .22 versions are mostly knockoffs.

    Although recently, H&K sued ATI and a bunch of airsoft companies. Full HK endorsed .22s / airsoft guns will hit the market sometime this year.

    The SP89 is the most commonly found civilian version.

    A registered auto sear that fits the SP89 is about $15,000.

    The GSG5PK by FEDERAL LAW is a PISTOL.
    An MP5K WITHOUT the foregrip BY FEDERAL LAW is a PISTOL.
    An MP5K WITH the foregrip by FEDERAL LAW is an AOW.
    Add a stock to any of these weapons, it becomes an SBR. (illegal in Michigan).

    However, if you took one of the MP5 carbines with a 16" barrel, either a real MP5 or a GSG5 full-size, if you put a folding stock on it, and it folds to UNDER 30", by MICHIGAN LAW, it's a MICHIGAN PISTOL.

    -Richard-

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    The unanswered questions then are:

    1) Original MP5K w/ Select-Fire Automatic Trigger Setup - is it a "pistol" in Michigan or not? It has to be registered as a Class 3, obviously, but is a Class 3 weapon pass beyond being a "pistol" regardless of whether or not it conforms to the other standards of a "pistol". If it still is a "pistol" then you can carry it with you Concealed Pistol License....if it's no longer considered a pistol then you can't carry this fully auto weapon.

    2) MP5K Semi Auto Only Clone w/Foregrip - if you have one of these with the foregrip (because you put it on or because it came that way from the factory) the firearm is now an AOW. You pay you dues to the Feds. But again, according to Michigan law, is the thing still a pistol or has it passed beyond the definition of a pistol or not? Again, if it still is a pistol regardless of the fact that it is also an AOW, then you're good to go to carry it like a pistol.
    I always open carry one of my Kimber 1911 pistols everywhere I go. Usually in a paddle holster. Nothing fancy, but it works for me.

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    The Expert wrote:
    The unanswered questions then are:

    1) Original MP5K w/ Select-Fire Automatic Trigger Setup - is it a "pistol" in Michigan or not?* It has to be registered as a Class 3, obviously, but is a Class 3 weapon pass beyond being a "pistol" regardless of whether or not it conforms to the other standards of a "pistol".* If it still is a "pistol" then you can carry it with you Concealed Pistol License....if it's no longer considered a pistol then you can't carry this fully auto weapon.

    2) MP5K Semi Auto Only Clone w/Foregrip - if you have one of these with the foregrip (because you put it on or because it came that way from the factory) the firearm is now an AOW.* You pay you dues to the Feds.* But again, according to Michigan law, is the thing still a pistol or has it passed beyond the definition of a pistol or not?* Again, if it still is a pistol regardless of the fact that it is also an AOW, then you're good to go to carry it like a pistol.
    1.) Yes it is a pistol in Michigan. Class 3? Only if you have an auto sear in it. If it's registered as a pistol you can carry it as a pistol regardless if it has an auto sear or not. The laws do not change if you have it legally registered. Read the info on the page with the link I posted about a Michigan pistol.


    2.) You keep getting things confused here. The fact that it is registered as a pistol doesnt change because the government forces you to pay a tax and fill out extra paperwork if you make it an AOW or full auto. It's a pistol unless you put a butstock on it and/or change the barrel length.

    Keep this in mind you might want to reread this thread as most of this has already been discussed.

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