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Thread: OCed to Valley Medical Center but turned away for ANOTHER REASON!

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    My mother in law took ill last night, and was admitted to Valley Medical Center in Renton, WA. She is disabled, and has vision and hearing problems. She has a service dog at home. She called us today, and asked if we could pick up her dog for her. My wife and I picked up her dog, and headed to the hospital. I was open carrying the entire time, and was stopped in the lobby by some staff. To my surprise, they didn't even look at my firearm - instead, they told me I can't bring a dog onto their premises. I told them it was a service animal for my mother in law. They asked to see documentation or else the dog can't be there. I told them that documentation is NOT required for a service dog to enter the property. I mentioned how it's a strict policy of the Civil Rights Disability division. They swore to me that it's not, and that I'll have to take the dog out.

    The entire time, they did not mention my firearm once, and I don't know if they even saw it. They were more concerned with the dog (who is a 4 lb pomeranian, by the way).

    Well, I had to turn around and leave.

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    Regular Member Aryk45XD's Avatar
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    Maybe she needs a larger service dog. I don't know about service animals and hospitals here, but I thought if somebody needed help, the wheelchairs were free. I could be wrong and wouldn't think too much about it personally, but I would probably say it would be a cleanliness issue.

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    My wife also has a service dog.

    3. Q: How can I tell if an animal is really a service animal and not just a pet?




    A: Some, but not all, service animals wear special collars and harnesses. Some, but not all, are licensed or certified and have identification papers. If you are not certain that an animal is a service animal, you may ask the person who has the animal if it is a service animal required because of a disability. However, an individual who is going to a restaurant or theater is not likely to be carrying documentation of his or her medical condition or disability. Therefore, such documentation generally may not be required as a condition for providing service to an individual accompanied by a service animal. Although a number of states have programs to certify service animals, you may not insist on proof of state certification before permitting the service animal to accompany the person with a disability.

    http://sdog.danawheels.net/laws/rcw991/laylaslaw.shtml

    http://www.ada.gov/qasrvc.htm
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
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    amzbrady wrote:
    My wife also has a service dog.

    3. Q: How can I tell if an animal is really a service animal and not just a pet?


    A: Some, but not all, service animals wear special collars and harnesses. Some, but not all, are licensed or certified and have identification papers. If you are not certain that an animal is a service animal, you may ask the person who has the animal if it is a service animal required because of a disability. However, an individual who is going to a restaurant or theater is not likely to be carrying documentation of his or her medical condition or disability. Therefore, such documentation generally may not be required as a condition for providing service to an individual accompanied by a service animal. Although a number of states have programs to certify service animals, you may not insist on proof of state certification before permitting the service animal to accompany the person with a disability.


    http://www.ada.gov/qasrvc.htm
    Yep. I saw that. They're wrong at the hospital. What amazes me is they were more concerned with her service dog LEGALLY being on the property, when I noticed the sign on the door as I left that said "no weapons".

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Put the dog in a holster on your hip!

    Open Carry Service Dogs.org
    :celebrate:celebrate
    Live Free or Die!

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    Update: My wife stayed at the hospital. She just called me, and told me she was approached by a different security officer, telling her that he's sorry she was hassled, and they they were in the wrong for asking for documents.

    Oh well. I just filed a complaint with not only the hospital, but the Washington State Attorney General.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    Aaron1124 wrote:
    Update: My wife stayed at the hospital. She just called me, and told me she was approached by a different security officer, telling her that he's sorry she was hassled, and they they were in the wrong for asking for documents.

    Oh well. I just filed a complaint with not only the hospital, but the Washington State Attorney General.
    File a complaint with the state Human Rights Commission. They have direct authority over it.

    http://www.hum.wa.gov

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    We laminated our dogs certificate and clip it on her harness. I know some people will disagree but I think it is best that documents should be shown. There are too many people walking around grocery stores with mangy flea bitten mutts who say they have service dogs. I think the system is being abused. My wife has a service dog not a guide dog, out of courtesy and health reasons she does not take hers in resturaunts and grocery stores.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
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    Gray Peterson wrote:
    Aaron1124 wrote:
    Update: My wife stayed at the hospital. She just called me, and told me she was approached by a different security officer, telling her that he's sorry she was hassled, and they they were in the wrong for asking for documents.

    Oh well. I just filed a complaint with not only the hospital, but the Washington State Attorney General.
    File a complaint with the state Human Rights Commission. They have direct authority over it.

    http://www.hum.wa.gov
    Thanks for the info. It'd be wonderful if staff (of every business) would be aware of state and federal rules, including ADA policies. Seem like pretty important issues to me. It amazes me how many times her mother in law is hassled because people assume that a service dog is always a large, seeing eye dog.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    amzbrady wrote:
    We laminated our dogs certificate and clip it on her harness. I know some people will disagree but I think it is best that documents should be shown. There are too many people walking around grocery stores with mangy flea bitten mutts who say they have service dogs. I think the system is being abused. My wife has a service dog not a guide dog, out of courtesy and health reasons she does not take hers in resturaunts and grocery stores.
    This is very true and they try and take advantage of businesses. I had a gal with a puppy in my store, no leash walking around. I asked her about the dog and she said it is a service dog in training. I happen to know the law. I waited a few minutes and sure enough the dog is taking a crap on my floor. She walks away from the 'accident', so I explain to her she must take the dog outside as it is no longer in her full control. She threw a small tantrum, but she was wrong on several accounts.

    I appreciate legitimate owners who either have the vest or their paperwork with them.
    Live Free or Die!

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    gogodawgs wrote:
    amzbrady wrote:
    We laminated our dogs certificate and clip it on her harness. I know some people will disagree but I think it is best that documents should be shown. There are too many people walking around grocery stores with mangy flea bitten mutts who say they have service dogs. I think the system is being abused. My wife has a service dog not a guide dog, out of courtesy and health reasons she does not take hers in resturaunts and grocery stores.
    This is very true and they try and take advantage of businesses. I had a gal with a puppy in my store, no leash walking around. I asked her about the dog and she said it is a service dog in training. I happen to know the law. I waited a few minutes and sure enough the dog is taking a crap on my floor. She walks away from the 'accident', so I explain to her she must take the dog outside as it is no longer in her full control. She threw a small tantrum, but she was wrong on several accounts.

    I appreciate legitimate owners who either have the vest or their paperwork with them.

    Some laws are just left too open to be abused. This could be a very good law with a few changes.There is a galout herethat my wife first used to get her dogs certificate.It costed her $5.00 and allshe did was come to the car open the door,pull lightly on her ears, and paws, then picked her up and turned her over.Then signed the certificate. We found out that she wasnot doing state recognized service dog certificates, so my wife went to an accredited service that was recommended thru PAWS.


    edited a to to too, so as not to offend the Llama guy too much.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
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    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

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    amzbrady wrote:
    We laminated our dogs certificate and clip it on her harness. I know some people will disagree but I think it is best that documents should be shown. There are too many people walking around grocery stores with mangy flea bitten mutts who say they have service dogs. I think the system is being abused. My wife has a service dog not a guide dog, out of courtesy and health reasons she does not take hers in resturaunts and grocery stores.
    That is very true. A lot of people abuse the system. There are people who own dogs, that are clearly not service dogs. I know apartment complexes have a right to ask for paperwork, considering that a deposit may not be required for a service dog. What makes me mad is that a lot of people feel they're not responsible of their dog does damages inside someone elses business. "Oh well. Who cares if he just took a crap on the floor! He's a service dog!"

    Or while at the movie theater "Who cares if he won't stop barking?! He's a service dog! He can!". People who really think that are very arrogant

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Aaron1124 wrote:
    amzbrady wrote:
    We laminated our dogs certificate and clip it on her harness. I know some people will disagree but I think it is best that documents should be shown. There are too many people walking around grocery stores with mangy flea bitten mutts who say they have service dogs. I think the system is being abused. My wife has a service dog not a guide dog, out of courtesy and health reasons she does not take hers in resturaunts and grocery stores.
    That is very true. A lot of people abuse the system. There are people who own dogs, that are clearly not service dogs. I know apartment complexes have a right to ask for paperwork, considering that a deposit may not be required for a service dog. What makes me mad is that a lot of people feel they're not responsible of their dog does damages inside someone elses business. "Oh well. Who cares if he just took a crap on the floor! He's a service dog!"

    Or while at the movie theater "Who cares if he won't stop barking?! He's a service dog! He can!". People who really think that are very arrogant
    Service dogs are being issued for "emotional" reasons now too. People are doing this simply to get around rules. I heard of someone who did this so they can travel freely to Hawaii (which has strict dog quarantine) freely.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

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    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    Aaron1124 wrote:
    amzbrady wrote:
    We laminated our dogs certificate and clip it on her harness. I know some people will disagree but I think it is best that documents should be shown. There are too many people walking around grocery stores with mangy flea bitten mutts who say they have service dogs. I think the system is being abused. My wife has a service dog not a guide dog, out of courtesy and health reasons she does not take hers in resturaunts and grocery stores.
    That is very true. A lot of people abuse the system. There are people who own dogs, that are clearly not service dogs. I know apartment complexes have a right to ask for paperwork, considering that a deposit may not be required for a service dog. What makes me mad is that a lot of people feel they're not responsible of their dog does damages inside someone elses business. "Oh well. Who cares if he just took a crap on the floor! He's a service dog!"

    Or while at the movie theater "Who cares if he won't stop barking?! He's a service dog! He can!". People who really think that are very arrogant
    Service dogs are being issued for "emotional" reasons now too. People are doing this simply to get around rules. I heard of someone who did this so they can travel freely to Hawaii (which has strict dog quarantine) freely.
    Did you hear about the therapy horse that a woman brought in to a Texas Target store?

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Wow just Wow. No I didn't but it doesn't surprise me.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Also, people have been making the argument, saying that I wasn't discriminated against, because I'm not the disabled one, and that my mother in law was not in immediate need of her service animal. My argument back was that my mother in law was a patient in the hospital, therefore had no method of obtaining her service animal upon her discharge from hospital care. The only method to get her service animal would be to have someone bring him down to her, unless the hospital staff wants to go to her house, get her service animal, and bring him back to her before she leaves the care of the hospital.

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    Aaron1124 wrote:
    amzbrady wrote:
    We laminated our dogs certificate and clip it on her harness. I know some people will disagree but I think it is best that documents should be shown. There are too many people walking around grocery stores with mangy flea bitten mutts who say they have service dogs. I think the system is being abused. My wife has a service dog not a guide dog, out of courtesy and health reasons she does not take hers in resturaunts and grocery stores.
    That is very true. A lot of people abuse the system. There are people who own dogs, that are clearly not service dogs. I know apartment complexes have a right to ask for paperwork, considering that a deposit may not be required for a service dog. What makes me mad is that a lot of people feel they're not responsible of their dog does damages inside someone elses business. "Oh well. Who cares if he just took a crap on the floor! He's a service dog!"

    Or while at the movie theater "Who cares if he won't stop barking?! He's a service dog! He can!". People who really think that are very arrogant
    Service dogs are being issued for "emotional" reasons now too. People are doing this simply to get around rules. I heard of someone who did this so they can travel freely to Hawaii (which has strict dog quarantine) freely.
    My wifes dog is a service animal just for emotional support. We didnt have any animals until her Psyciatrist suggested it. She spent alot of time looking at specific service dogs for theraputic diversion. She also takes her dog to senior homes and donates time, the little old ladies love it. It's amazing how much of a difference 10 minutes petting a dog makes in someones life who cant have an animal. My wife does not abuse the system. She thinks about how uncomfortable some people may be if she take's cookie in some place with her.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    amzbrady wrote
    dog is a service animal just for emotional support. We didnt have any animals until her Psyciatrist suggested it. She spent alot of time looking at specific service dogs for theraputic diversion. She also takes her dog to senior homes and donates time, the little old ladies love it. It's amazing how much of a difference 10 minutes petting a dog makes in someones life who cant have an animal. My wife does not abuse the system. She thinks about how uncomfortable some people may be if she take's cookie in some place with her.
    I have a couple of questions regarding the 'therapy' animal. Real questions.

    Does the therapy animal need to be present at all times?

    If not, how long away is ok? Is it ok to run into the minute mart to pay for gas and grab a soda?

    Does grocery shopping require the therapy animal present? Dinner at a restaurant?

    I assume an animal for therapy is different than a service animal that has been trained to perform tasks.
    Live Free or Die!

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    gogodawgs wrote:
    amzbrady wrote
    dog is a service animal just for emotional support. We didnt have any animals until her Psyciatrist suggested it. She spent alot of time looking at specific service dogs for theraputic diversion. She also takes her dog to senior homes and donates time, the little old ladies love it. It's amazing how much of a difference 10 minutes petting a dog makes in someones life who cant have an animal. My wife does not abuse the system. She thinks about how uncomfortable some people may be if she take's cookie in some place with her.
    I have a couple of questions regarding the 'therapy' animal. Real questions.

    Does the therapy animal need to be present at all times?

    If not, how long away is ok? Is it ok to run into the minute mart to pay for gas and grab a soda?

    Does grocery shopping require the therapy animal present? Dinner at a restaurant?

    I assume an animal for therapy is different than a service animal that has been trained to perform tasks.
    For my wife, her therapy animal goes almost everywhere with her, but not in everwhere. The main purpose of her having a therapy animal is to help calm her when she starts feeling manic. She does not take her dog into places where they sell or serve food, and does not leave her dog in her car for extended periods of time, or even short times when the inclements could endanger her dog. An animal for therapy has been trained to preform a task. They stay calm and help to relax their owners.

    that is just us, actually my wife, I'm not an animal person. Every situation is different, some people have kids to keep themselves busy, My wife, thank god, opted fora dog.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

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    Regular Member GreatWhiteLlama's Avatar
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    amzbrady wrote:
    edited a to to too, so as not to offend the Llama guy too much.
    :P

    Just doing my part to help the cause

    BTW, my most serious violations on here were mistakenly mixing up 'since' with 'sense', and even more embarrassingly, 'site' instead of 'cite'

    It's okay, we all come here for education, even if it's not exactly the education we were looking for.


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    I'm a pet owner, pet lover, owner of a couple of certified therapy dogs who are welcome in local hospitals and nursing homes (plus other dogs who are certified K9 Good Citizens), and co-owner of a pet service business.

    So, bona fides out of the way, and with no disrespect intended to the OP or his mother-in-law, I have to get this off my chest: a 4 pound Pomeranian is not a service animal. It might be a therapy dog that she needs for her emotional well-being. It might be a comfort dog that keeps her happy. But a service animal performs physical tasks that their human companion can't perform for themselves.

    Seeing eye or guide dogs are service animals.

    Assistance dogs (they can be any breed, but labs are common) can help a disabled person live alone in a specially modified house (open doors and appliances, fetch phones, etc.), and those are service animals in the context where they're trained.

    Fluffy in a purse isn't doing a thing that can't be done by a nurse's aide.

    Just for the record, I don't think dogs should be banned from 90%+ of the places they're currently banned, including hospitals and airplanes. When I was stationed in Germany, I was amused to see that Germans often left the kids at home while they went out to dine, but they took the dog with them. (My first week there, I had no idea the couple at the next table had a dog, until they got up to leave and their GSD eyeballed my plate on the way by.)

    On the other hand, I witness almost daily people who swear they would faint if they couldn't have Fluffy at arm's length at all times. Those people need emotional therapy, not dog therapy.

    But, thank goodness for them, since they contribute handsomely to our household income.


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    KBCraig wrote:
    I'm a pet owner, pet lover, owner of a couple of certified therapy dogs who are welcome in local hospitals and nursing homes (plus other dogs who are certified K9 Good Citizens), and co-owner of a pet service business.

    So, bona fides out of the way, and with no disrespect intended to the OP or his mother-in-law, I have to get this off my chest: a 4 pound Pomeranian is not a service animal. It might be a therapy dog that she needs for her emotional well-being. It might be a comfort dog that keeps her happy. But a service animal performs physical tasks that their human companion can't perform for themselves.

    Seeing eye or guide dogs are service animals.

    Assistance dogs (they can be any breed, but labs are common) can help a disabled person live alone in a specially modified house (open doors and appliances, fetch phones, etc.), and those are service animals in the context where they're trained.

    Fluffy in a purse isn't doing a thing that can't be done by a nurse's aide.

    Just for the record, I don't think dogs should be banned from 90%+ of the places they're currently banned, including hospitals and airplanes. When I was stationed in Germany, I was amused to see that Germans often left the kids at home while they went out to dine, but they took the dog with them. (My first week there, I had no idea the couple at the next table had a dog, until they got up to leave and their GSD eyeballed my plate on the way by.)

    On the other hand, I witness almost daily people who swear they would faint if they couldn't have Fluffy at arm's length at all times. Those people need emotional therapy, not dog therapy.

    But, thank goodness for them, since they contribute handsomely to our household income.
    She's a service dog. She even has a physicians note written from years back, explaining that he feels her dog is "vital to have at her side at all times" considering her impairments, specified directly toher dog that she has to this day. Any dog, of any breed, can be a service dog. Any animal, that is not banned, can be a service animal. That includes animals that may even be restricted to a particular city. Many cities that ban pit bulls must allow them for their owners who use them for service animals. That includes apartment complexes who use have breed restrictions. A Texas woman uses a HORSE as a service animal, in which she brought in to a Target store (See my picture above).


    2. Q: What is a service animal?

    A: The ADA defines a service animal as any guide dog, signal dog, or other animal individually trained to provide assistance to an individual with a disability. If they meet this definition, animals are considered service animals under the ADA regardless of whether they have been licensed or certified by a state or local government.

    Service animals perform some of the functions and tasks that the individual with a disability cannot perform for him or herself. Guide dogs are one type of service animal, used by some individuals who are blind. This is the type of service animal with which most people are familiar. But there are service animals that assist persons with other kinds of disabilities in their day-to-day activities. Some examples include:

    _ Alerting persons with hearing impairments to sounds.
    _ Pulling wheelchairs or carrying and picking up things for persons with mobility impairments.
    _ Assisting persons with mobility impairments with balance.

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    Clearly, the lax system is being abused. I imagine if one looks hard enough and finds the right doctor, any animal can be deemed a service animal for any real or imagined ailment. Not that any paperwork is required. It seems from this thread that any pet owner could honestly say they get sad when they have to leave their dog at home, so, presto, it is suddenly a service dog, for combatting bouts of depression.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Dont forget the dogs that warn epileptics of siezures too.

    Dogs are great therapy I know mine bring joy into my life everyday. This doesn't stop people from abusing the system though.

    They did studies to show that elderly people live longer and happier lives with pets. Matter of fact I was able to get rid of several cats years ago by selling some retirement homes on this fact. You should have seen the joy in some of the residents faces when they were able to pet and watch some cats play.

    I was told that one cat in particular would spend a few days/nights with someone before they passed, some how it could sense what was going to happen.

    Wow this doesn't have much to do with OC though. LOL.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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