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Thread: Told to leave twice in two days

  1. #1
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    Sunday, my son and I walked around the GM Renaissance Center for a while. We stopped at the Starbucks, wandered around, then walked the River Walk. As we were cutting back thru the building on the way to the car, I was stopped by several security guards. They were nice. The lead guard seemed to have a prepared statement about it being open to the public but being privately owned with their own rules. I told him I understood. The lead guard wouldn't take a tri-fold saying he knew all about it but another guard took one. The guard who took the brochure was going to let me cover up and continue but the lead guard made me walk around. I let them know they needed to post the rule otherwise they'd get repeat performances.


    Today, on my way back from the Sterling Heights parade me and the boy stopped in at the Palladium Theatre in Birmingham. After we got out tickets a mother with her kids asked me why I had that (pointing at my firearm) on me. I guess I was still on the Parade high and was caught off guard so all I answered was "because I own it". Not a great answer but I didn't feel like I owned her snippy butt one.
    Well she must have went straight to the manager. After we got back from the restroom he found me and informed me that no firearms were allowed. I was still annoyed with the lady so I got at him a bit and asked him if it was HIS policy or the theatre's because I was going to check and why it wasn't posted. It was about a 20 sec conversation. After seeing his face dropped, I calmed down a bit and told him I'll just put it up and we can talk later. After securing my firearm, I came back with a tri-fold. He started up about being a high capacity theatre which I thought was a hint toward PFZs. I started to get into the OC with a CPL discussion but he wasn't interested.

    Anyhow, I might not have said all the right things but should there be any follow up on either or being private property should I just leave it be?

  2. #2
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    As I'm sure you're aware if you are asked to leave and are on private property you must leave or you are committing trespass.

    BUT, if it is not posted, this group has a tendency to have bouts of civil disobedience when it comes to things like this. Many people may OC there just to let the management know that there are dollars riding on their policy of no-self-defense. This may result in a sign going up or them relenting. Either way is a win, if a sign goes up it saves us the trouble of getting kicked out.

  3. #3
    Regular Member kryptonian's Avatar
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    been meaning to test the OC waters in birmingham. i know that whole town WELL and the police and the downtown shop area. BPD response time to 911 calls is less than a minute. i've seen people get off the bus at maple and woodward and start panhandling walking down the street. they don't make it a block.

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    I am at the GM Renaissance Center on a regular basis. The building entrances do not have "No Firearms" signage posted. It is GM's Corporate Policy not to have firearms on property owned by them (and the GM Renaissance Center is owned by GM). Even the security guards, whom I talk with regularly, are not allowed to carry firearms. They are opening a Police Mini-Station on L1 of Tower 300, pretty sure they will be allowed to carry (wonder if that is OK with Equal Protection under the law?). IMO, it is a "problem waiting to happen" and sooner or later an incident is bound to occur with this being a CEZ.
    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

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    kryptonian wrote:
    been meaning to test the OC waters in birmingham. i know that whole town WELL and the police and the downtown shop area. BPD response time to 911 calls is less than a minute. i've seen people get off the bus at maple and woodward and start panhandling walking down the street. they don't make it a block.
    I OC in Birmingham every week, and have never had an issue.

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    Birmingham has a tremendous stuck up attitude of elitism. The feeling I get around there is that people think they are so great that A- no criminals would even dare encroach on their awesome superiority, and B- that the police are so powerful and so fast that worrying about safety is silly, since it's a responsibility that has been passed on from the common person to the police.

    There seem to be 2 types of common people in Birmingham, elitists spending money, and workers. Everything else equates to someone who is more or less out of place. It is a city that is wants to be both racially and economically exclusive.

    sprinklerguy28 wrote:
    I OC in Birmingham every week, and have never had an issue.
    In addition to being very well spoken and very presentable, you could easily pass for a detective or some other person with some official reason to be armed. You've kinda got that demeanor, so I wouldn't be surprised if you never had trouble in Birmingham.

    I've OC'd around there a few times, and I can think of at least 2 other people who have as well. In one very recent circumstance, a person who can name themselves if they wish to was at a Starbucks in Birmingham and was told off by some snob in a high dollar suit, and the snob even tried to insinuate that he was better educated and smarter in order to try to win the argument.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Good idea.

    Sefner wrote:
    As I'm sure you're aware if you are asked to leave and are on private property you must leave or you are committing trespass.

    BUT, if it is not posted, this group has a tendency to have bouts of civil disobedience when it comes to things like this. Many people may OC there just to let the management know that there are dollars riding on their policy of no-self-defense. This may result in a sign going up or them relenting. Either way is a win, if a sign goes up it saves us the trouble of getting kicked out.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    OK, I typed this up real quick. Please give me feedback, rewrites or comments.




    Dear Management of Palladium 12 Theatre,

    I had a very unfortunate experience with your manager named Mark this last Sunday. I legally openly carry a firearm wherever it is not prohibited by law. Since I have a Michigan Concealed Pistol License, I am exempted from the State's pistol-free zone while I openly carry a firearm (although there are some other restrictions like a courthouse, casino and Federal buildings). Manager Mark approached me after I had bought movie tickets and was in the concession line. He informed me that firearms were not allowed. I explained to Manager Mark that I openly carry a firearm legally and asked if this was actually theatre policy since there was no sign posted. He didn't seem to know for sure but settled on the answer that it was indeed the theatre's policy. I immediately left and secured my firearm off theatre premise. Private property rights are just important to me as the right to bear arms. I returned without my firearm with some printed information on open carry in Michigan. Manager Mike mentioned something about the high volume of people, which is not relevant, and repeatedly rolled his eyes at me.


    What made me feel especially disrespected was the timing. This was Memorial Day and I had just come from marching in a Memorial Day Parade that honored our nation's veterans who have sacrificed so much for our unalienable rights. I have served in the US Marine Corps and as previously stated I have a Michigan Concealed Pistol License. I train regularly and safely. Having policies that ban legally carried firearms results in only illegally carried firearms on your premises since only law-abiding citizens with follow your rules and criminals by definition do not follow rules. I carry a firearm to protect my loved ones, myself and to deter crime wherever I go.


    Please clarify your firearm policy, if any. I hope to see you model the Starbucks Corporation that has decided to comply with local laws and statutes in all the communities they serve (http://starbucks.tekgroup.com/articl...article_id=332). I have informed many in the Michigan open carry movement via the internet. We all are eagerly awaiting your response. Your decision will affect our decision to support your business or boycott it.


    Sincerely,
    Samuel

  9. #9
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    Savage.Detroit wrote:
    OK, I typed this up real quick. Please give me feedback, rewrites or comments.




    Dear Management of Palladium 12 Theatre,

    I had a very unfortunate experience with your manager named Mark this last Sunday. I legally openly carry a firearm wherever it is not prohibited by law. Since I have a Michigan Concealed Pistol License, I am exempted from most of the State's pistol-free zone while I openly carry a firearm (although there are some other restrictions like a courthouse, casino and Federal buildings)--strike this as irrelevant. Manager Mark approached me after I had bought movie tickets and was in the concession line. He informed me that firearms were not allowed. I explained to Manager Mark that I openly carry a firearm legally and asked if this was actually theatre policy since there was no sign posted. He didn't seem to--strikeknow for sure but settled on the answer that it was indeed the theatre's policy. I immediately left and secured my firearm off theatre premise. Private property rights are just important to me as the right to bear arms.--strike I returned without my firearm with some printed information on open carry in Michigan. Manager Mike mentioned something about the high volume of people, which is not relevant, and repeatedly rolled his eyes at me.


    What made me feel especially disrespected was the timing. This was Memorial Day and I had just come from marching in a Memorial Day Parade that honored our nation's veterans who have sacrificed so much for our unalienable rights. I have served in the US Marine Corps and as previously stated I have a Michigan Concealed Pistol License. I train regularly and safely. Having policies that ban legally carried firearms results in only illegally carried firearms on your premises since only law-abiding citizens with follow your rules and criminals by definition do not follow rules. I carry a firearm to protect my loved ones, myself and to deter crime wherever I go.


    Please clarify your firearm policy, if any. I hope to see you model the Starbucks Corporation that has decided to comply with local laws and statutes in all the communities they serve (http://starbucks.tekgroup.com/articl...ticle_id=332). I have informed many in the Michigan open carry movement via the internet. We all are eagerly awaiting your response. Your decision will affect our decision to support your business or boycott it.


    Sincerely,
    Samuel
    If you are a member of MOC make sure to include your MOC membership # in your signature.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

  10. #10
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    Bronson wrote:
    If you are a member of MOC make sure to include your MOC membership # in your signature.
    Unfortunately, I've been waiting for my membership card since March.


    Thanks for the corrections!

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    Savage.Detroit wrote:

    Today, on my way back from the Sterling Heights parade me and the boy stopped in at the Palladium Theatre in Birmingham. After we got out tickets a mother with her kids asked me why I had that (pointing at my firearm) on me. I guess I was still on the Parade high and was caught off guard so all I answered was "because I own it". Not a great answer but I didn't feel like I owned her snippy butt one.
    Well she must have went straight to the manager. After we got back from the restroom he found me and informed me that no firearms were allowed. I was still annoyed with the lady so I got at him a bit and asked him if it was HIS policy or the theatre's because I was going to check and why it wasn't posted. It was about a 20 sec conversation. After seeing his face dropped, I calmed down a bit and told him I'll just put it up and we can talk later. After securing my firearm, I came back with a tri-fold. He started up about being a high capacity theatre which I thought was a hint toward PFZs. I started to get into the OC with a CPL discussion but he wasn't interested.

    Anyhow, I might not have said all the right things but should there be any follow up on either or being private property should I just leave it be?
    Do not hand out trifolds if you cannot maintain a decent state of mind and professionalism, it makes MOC look bad when people get that attitude, I understand it is your right but your reaction was uncalled for
    I have mentioned it before and I will say it again, I support OC very much but I truly hate that attitude
    When asked to leave, LEAVE
    Do not be rude, be informative.


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    Beerme wrote:
    Do not hand out trifolds if you cannot maintain a decent state of mind and professionalism, it makes MOC look bad when people get that attitude, I understand it is your right but your reaction was uncalled for
    I have mentioned it before and I will say it again, I support OC very much but I truly hate that attitude
    When asked to leave, LEAVE
    Do not be rude, be informative.
    There is always one....

    As for the lady, my answer to her question was made in a "matter of fact" manner. It was not with an attitude and I was not rude. She kept walking so I didn't hand her a tri-fold.

    As for the manager, I was firm with him and when I said "I got at him" I mean I didn't let him off the hook. Once it was determined he was the manager and was saying it was the theatre's policy I left immediately and came back with information for him (tri-fold). I did not give him a attitude and I was not rude with him.

    So please keep a decent state of mind and professionalism when you are respond to post. It make MOC look bad when people get that attitude and assumption are made of them. I understand it is your right but your reaction was uncalled for. I support OC very much but I truly dislike that attitude.
    If you got something to teach me, do not be rude, be informative.

    Savage

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    Beerme wrote:
    Savage.Detroit wrote:

    Today, on my way back from the Sterling Heights parade me and the boy stopped in at the Palladium Theatre in Birmingham. After we got out tickets a mother with her kids asked me why I had that (pointing at my firearm) on me. I guess I was still on the Parade high and was caught off guard so all I answered was "because I own it". Not a great answer but I didn't feel like I owned her snippy butt one.
    Well she must have went straight to the manager. After we got back from the restroom he found me and informed me that no firearms were allowed. I was still annoyed with the lady so I got at him a bit and asked him if it was HIS policy or the theatre's because I was going to check and why it wasn't posted. It was about a 20 sec conversation. After seeing his face dropped, I calmed down a bit and told him I'll just put it up and we can talk later. After securing my firearm, I came back with a tri-fold. He started up about being a high capacity theatre which I thought was a hint toward PFZs. I started to get into the OC with a CPL discussion but he wasn't interested.

    Anyhow, I might not have said all the right things but should there be any follow up on either or being private property should I just leave it be?
    Do not hand out trifolds if you cannot maintain a decent state of mind and professionalism, it makes MOC look bad when people get that attitude, I understand it is your right but your reaction was uncalled for
    I have mentioned it before and I will say it again, I support OC very much but I truly hate that attitude
    When asked to leave, LEAVE
    Do not be rude, be informative.
    Beerme (great name )

    I have attended several events with Savage & in my experience he has always conducted himself in a very positive manner. He is well spoken, thoughtful in his comments & sincere in his desire to further the OC cause. Just my honest opinion.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

  14. #14
    Regular Member MarineSgt's Avatar
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    Beerme wrote:
    Savage.Detroit wrote:

    Today, on my way back from the Sterling Heights parade me and the boy stopped in at the Palladium Theatre in Birmingham. After we got out tickets a mother with her kids asked me why I had that (pointing at my firearm) on me. I guess I was still on the Parade high and was caught off guard so all I answered was "because I own it". Not a great answer but I didn't feel like I owned her snippy butt one.
    Well she must have went straight to the manager. After we got back from the restroom he found me and informed me that no firearms were allowed. I was still annoyed with the lady so I got at him a bit and asked him if it was HIS policy or the theatre's because I was going to check and why it wasn't posted. It was about a 20 sec conversation. After seeing his face dropped, I calmed down a bit and told him I'll just put it up and we can talk later. After securing my firearm, I came back with a tri-fold. He started up about being a high capacity theatre which I thought was a hint toward PFZs. I started to get into the OC with a CPL discussion but he wasn't interested.

    Anyhow, I might not have said all the right things but should there be any follow up on either or being private property should I just leave it be?
    Do not hand out trifolds if you cannot maintain a decent state of mind and professionalism, it makes MOC look bad when people get that attitude, I understand it is your right but your reaction was uncalled for
    I have mentioned it before and I will say it again, I support OC very much but I truly hate that attitude
    When asked to leave, LEAVE
    Do not be rude, be informative.
    Perhaps the tri-folds he was handing out were OCDO tri-folds and not MOC ones? I didn't realize you held the rank of Commander of 2nd Amendment Rights, State of Michigan Article 1 Section 6, Open Carry Division. Do you have a link to the approved Dress Code, Code of Conduct, and approved appropriate responses to those hostile to open carry? I sincerely would like to make sure I only exercise my rights in accordance to your guidelines and wishes.

    Seriously though. I understand that as OC "activists" our behavior and dress can either increase or decrease public opinion on our activity. In the grand scheme of things though. Anyone here should be able to neglect their hygiene, wear the rattiest close they own, and be as big an a-hole they want to be. It's within THEIR rights.
    Someone who can't be trusted to walk free in public with a firearm shouldn't be walking around free.

  15. #15
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    He does not speak for MOC... just for himself which he is entitled to his opinion...
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    autosurgeon wrote:
    He does not speak for MOC... just for himself which he is entitled to his opinion...
    Who? Beerme?
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

  17. #17
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Affirmative
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  18. #18
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    Dear Management of Palladium 12 Theatre,

    I had a very unfortunate experience with your manager named Mark this last Sunday. I legally openly carry a firearm wherever it is not prohibited by law. Since I have a Michigan Concealed Pistol License, I am exempted from most of the State's pistol-free zone while I openly carry a firearm. Manager Mark approached me after I had bought movie tickets and was in the concession line. He informed me that firearms were not allowed. I explained to Manager Mark that I openly carry a firearm legally and asked if this was actually theatre policy since there was no sign posted. He didn'tÂ*know for sure but settled on the answer that it was indeed the theatre's policy. I immediately left and secured my firearm off theatre premise. I returned without my firearm with some printed information on open carry in Michigan. Manager Mike mentioned something about the high volume of people, which is not relevant, and repeatedly rolled his eyes at me.


    What made me feel especially disrespected was the timing. This was Memorial Day and I had just come from marching in a Memorial Day Parade that honored our nation's veterans who have sacrificed so much for our unalienable rights. I have served in the US Marine Corps and as previously stated I have a Michigan Concealed Pistol License. I train regularly and safely. Having policies that ban legally carried firearms results in only illegally carried firearms on your premises since only law-abiding citizens with follow your rules and criminals by definition do not follow rules. I carry a firearm to protect my loved ones, myself and to deter crime wherever I go.


    Please clarify your firearm policy, if any. I hope to see you model the Starbucks Corporation that has decided to comply with local laws and statutes in all the communities they serve (http://starbucks.tekgroup.com/articl...ticle_id=332). I have informed many in the Michigan open carry movement via the internet. We all are eagerly awaiting your response. Your decision will affect our decision to support your business or boycott it.


    Sincerely,

    Samuel
    MOC membership ####
    Bump for any more comments before I send it off.
    Thanks guys for all your support.

  19. #19
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Looks Good! Let it fly!
    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    I had a very unfortunate experience with your manager named Mark this last Sunday. I legally openly carry a firearm wherever it is not prohibited by law. Since I have a Michigan Concealed Pistol License, I am exempted from most of the State's pistol-free zone(s) while I openly carry a firearm. Manager Mark approached me after I had bought movie tickets and was in the concession line. He informed me that firearms were not allowed. I explained to Manager Mark that I openly carry a firearm legally and asked if this was actually theatre policy since there was no sign posted. He didn'tknow(.) (Mark then stated that it was indeed the theatre's policy.) I immediately left and secured my firearm off theatre premise. I returned without my firearm with some printed information on open carry in Michigan. Manager Mike mentioned something about the high volume of people, which is not relevant, and repeatedly rolled his eyes at me (in a dismissive manner).


    What made me feel especially disrespected was the timing. This was Memorial Day and I had just come from marching in a Memorial Day Parade that honored our nation's veterans who have sacrificed so much for our unalienable rights. I have served in the US Marine Corps and as previously stated I have a Michigan Concealed Pistol License. I train regularly and safely. Having policies that ban legally carried firearms results in only illegally carried firearms on your premises since only law-abiding citizens (with to will) follow your rules and criminals by definition do not follow rules. I carry a firearm to protect my loved ones, myself, other law abiding citizens and as a crime deterrent wherever I go.


    Please clarify your firearm policy, if any. I hope to see you follow one of many corporate examples such as that of Starbucks Corporation which has decided to comply with local laws and statutes in all the communities they conduct business in. (http://starbucks.tekgroup.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=332)

    I have informed many in the Michigan open carry movement via the internet about this incident. We are eagerly awaiting your response. Your choices in this matter will affect our future decisions to either: support your business, hold informational demonstrations near your facilities designed to draw media attention to this issue or boycott your business entirely.


    Sincerely,

    Samuel just some mark-ups. Red just simple fixes, green wording changes. Your original is good. Just trying to help - Jeff
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Savage keep up the good work you are doing! Active Members such as yourself make a huge difference in my humble opinion. I hope to get my CPL soon (or not, I hear Wayne Co. now has a projected 4 month backup due to the recent issues with valid CPLs not being in the system). As soon as I do we should take our families to a movie together somewhere downriver. Heck, MJR Allen Park has free shows for the little ones on the weekends. If we get asked to leave we'd only be out a couple of bucks
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

  22. #22
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    I've been to a couple events with savage Taylor, Membership meeting, and he came to pontiac everytime ive met him he has been very professional and polite with people I look forward to more events with him.

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