GBPD At my door!

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Here I am sound asleep in my bed, mind you the knocking at my door startled me a bit when my wife shook me and said "someone's at the door". I know it ain't any 'Holy Rollers", so I figured I'd ignore it and they'd go away, nope! Now I do not get visitors THAT late, at all!
I asked (while my XD is in my hand)Q: Who is it? A: It's the Police. I reply, Hold on (I put my XD away) and open the door. Officer (whom I've known for years) asks, "Do you OC"? Yes I do, why? Well we have received numerous complaints, 4 in all, that you have been seen OC'ing in the 2100 block of "BLAH". Yes that would be me, I OC pretty much every where I go, especially when I am with my wife and Daughter and when I'm on my property. I guess someone had a problem w/ me cutting my grass while armed earlier today.
He asked me if I could not do it as much! Or, so he does not "get bombarded with calls and have to come and investigate them" He knows that it is legal, he knows my back ground and my training (LEO and Military) He requested "from a PR stand point, cause the general public does not understand that it is legal and to prevent me from being subjected to being put to the ground at gun point by some younger officer that does not understand the law"
Are you fricking kidding me?
He also stated that "the demographics of where I live does not need to be OC'ing, just don't do it as much, there are older ppl that live here, and it really is not that bad here"
That's a load of BS! It matters not where you live, it is a Right afforded to me.
I asked him if he'd do his job W/O any of his weapons, and got some BS answer.
I told him I will not reduce my OC'ing in public. However, in an effort to be reasonable, I asked him to follow up w/ the complainants (anonymous at that they were) and inform them about OC is legal.
Allegedly, this complaint went all the way to his Shift Commander!
The 2nd officer asked if I carried a badge? To which I replied, NO, I do not mis-represent my self, ever! He implied that if I were a Security Officer that would help, I ain't no wana be! Nor do I project that, ever!
Officer 1 says, "make it less visible" How do I do that and stay w/in the Law, i asked? No response. Aside from being on my property and concealing it, I must carry openly.
I will not stop OC'ing nor will I reduce it, as requested by the Officer. As I told him so, however in an effort to be reasonable, I asked him to educate the complainants, he was not receptive to my suggestion, nor my comment about how Dispatch handles MWG calls.
I can see where this is going!
Better go and get a recorder!

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And file an open records request right away.

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hows does the open records request work?

Not sure if it is as simple as it sounds and I am interested in knowing.

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qball54208 wrote:

...and to prevent me from being subjected to being put to the ground at gun point by some younger officer that does not understand the law

Click to expand...

You'd think that if an officer doesn't understand the law, the police department wouldn't deem them fit to enforce it...

To borrow a phrase from Chris Rock, "I'm tired of these "ignant" a$$ mo-fo!"

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here;s a new concept for the complaintants; mind your own damn business. if your on your property, minding your own business, they should learn to mind their own! now they apparently (the complaintants) feel they can use the police to dictate your rights and actions to you on your own property. supposedly safe places or areas are just indeed that; supposedly safe. perhapse those who are so concerned about your activities should read the constitution to help them clarify their thoughts. being put on the ground by a younger cop who doesn't know your rights would probably result in a phone call to that department from wisconsin carry. i thought elitist socialist bastards were unique to my neighborhood, apparently not.

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I don't get it? I though the Green Bay leo's had it down pat.and to be ask to make it less -visible!!

To bad we can't get a news paper to do a positive story on open carry, an your right to open carry...

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revolverrandy wrote:

hows does the open records request work?

Not sure if it is as simple as it sounds and I am interested in knowing.

Click to expand...

It is as simple as it can be, with nearly no formal requirements.

http://www.doj.state.wi.us/AWP/2007OMCG-PRO/2007_OML_Compliance_Guide.pdf 45 pages 475 KB

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J.Gleason wrote:

And file an open records request right away.

Click to expand...

Not quite sure what that would accomplish.
I'm not going to confront the complainants, not like going to their door and explain to them OUR rights, would like to though.
Like I said, it's time to purchase a digital personal recorder, I do not think this is the last time I will be contacted by the GBPD!
The Officer was adamant about me OC'ing less in a particular area in my neighborhood.
His request is placing a limitation on my RIGHT to OC as I see it.
I get the feeling that if I were to continue to OC in the area he stated, he will be back, and I fear to arrest and charge me!
Well see!

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Well then, file a complaint.

I cannot imagine why one would not visit neighbors, if only to figuratively build a 'good fence' .

The LEO cannot request you limit your rights except by speaking for himself. If you are in fear of arrest then make that an element of your complaint and so inform your personal attorney.

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qball54208 wrote:

J.Gleason wrote:

And file an open records request right away.

Click to expand...

Not quite sure what that would accomplish.
I'm not going to confront the complainants, not like going to their door and explain to them OUR rights, would like to though.
Like I said, it's time to purchase a digital personal recorder, I do not think this is the last time I will be contacted by the GBPD!
The Officer was adamant about me OC'ing less in a particular area in my neighborhood.
His request is placing a limitation on my RIGHT to OC as I see it.
I get the feeling that if I were to continue to OC in the area he stated, he will be back, and I fear to arrest and charge me!
Well see!

Click to expand...

They will have a record of coming to your house and why. The request will be sent today.

This is the same as saying, "Can you please be a little less black!" It is outright discrimination by LEO.

A FOI request will give the officers names AND determine if they were instructed to visit you by a supervisor.

The next step then is to file a harassment complaint against the officers that visited you AND their supervisor (if he ordered it).

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Wow. That is absurd! The LEO community has to KNOW by now that many of us (if not all of us) are at least associated with this forum and perhaps Wisconsin Carry. What possible "good" do they think they could accomplish with this harassment?

These "events" will undoubtedly be posted on this forum and perhaps other forums for dissemination to all of us. I can see these events getting out of control by LEO's if the open carry community doesn't bend to their demands.:exclaim:

This kind of thing only pushes us (I hope I speak for all of us) to further our reserve to keep and bear arms and continue to exercise our right through open carry in Wisconsin.

Unfortunately we all have to record our encounters and not just with the police when open carrying. And the chance of that recorder and it's records remaining intact are fairly low if and when "taken" by LEO's. Anyone know of a recorder that requires a password to delete the files?

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revolverrandy wrote:

hows does the open records request work?

Not sure if it is as simple as it sounds and I am interested in knowing.

Click to expand...

Here is a copy of what I emailed them this morning.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SUBJECT: Open Records Request re "911 dispatch transcripts, logs, and police reports"

Jim Arts, Chief of Police
Green Bay Police Department
307 S. Adams Street
Green Bay, WI 54301


Dear Sir:

This is an Open Records Request for all records pertaining to any calls or contact the City of Green Bay police department had with the public or any individual between the dates of May 20, 2010 and June 1, 2010 regarding carrying, and/or displaying, of firearms within the City of Green Bay.

I am requesting any record, including but not limited to emails, faxes, letters, applications, permits, licenses, memoranda, logs, transcripts, reports, policies, police reports, incident reports, or any other correspondence pertaining to any interaction between the Green Bay police department and the public regarding carrying or display of firearms within city limits.

Such documentation might include or pertain to such things as police reports, 911 logs, 911 transcripts, dispatch logs, department policies, incident reports, internal memos, or any other documentation regarding the carrying or display of firearms with the city limits.

As you know, the law requires you to respond to this request "as soon as possible and without delay."

Please also be aware that the Open Records law "shall be construed in every instance with the presumption of complete public access consistent with the conduct of governmental business. The denial of access generally is contrary to the public interest and only in exceptional cases can access be denied." Should you deny my request, the law requires you to do so in writing and state what part of the law you believe entitles you to deny my request. Wis. Stat 19.35(4)(a).

The Open Records Act states that you may charge for "the actual, necessary and direct cost" of locating records, if this exceeds $50, and for photocopies. The Wisconsin Department of Justice advises that copying fees under the Open Records law should be "around 15 cents per page and that anything in excess of 25 cents maybe be subject." Please advise me before processing this request if the total cost will exceed $75.00.

Thank you in advance for responding to this request at your earliest convenience and I will also mail you a hard copy of this request to: Jim Arts, Chief of Police, Green Bay Police Department, 307 S. Adams Street, Green Bay, WI 54301.

Electronic delivery of records at my email address would be most appreciated . Alternatively, please mail these records to my home address listed below.

Thank you for your service and kind attention in this matter.

Sincerely,


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And YES, it is that simple

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qball54208 wrote:

J.Gleason wrote:

And file an open records request right away.

Click to expand...

Not quite sure what that would accomplish.
I'm not going to confront the complainants, not like going to their door and explain to them OUR rights, would like to though.
Like I said, it's time to purchase a digital personal recorder, I do not think this is the last time I will be contacted by the GBPD!
The Officer was adamant about me OC'ing less in a particular area in my neighborhood.
His request is placing a limitation on my RIGHT to OC as I see it.
I get the feeling that if I were to continue to OC in the area he stated, he will be back, and I fear to arrest and charge me!
Well see!

Click to expand...

The purpose of filing this is as BNH stated, to determine if the police actually did receive a complaint or if this is just the agenda of the police in GB.

Since the initial appearance of OC in GB, things have calmed down now, although there have been talks on this forum of new gatherings at Bay Beach. I am sure someone on the GBPD have seen and reported these discussions to their superiors.

It seems a bit outlandish that any patrols would be sent in the late evening hours to check ut a complaint made earlier in the day. This sounds as tho these officers may be acting under a hidden agenda as usually complaints are handled during normal business hours and officers would not wake someone in the middle of the night to do something that could be done during the day.

For instance, if they know that you carry everyday then they have obviously been watching you. Therefore they know what times to expect to see you carrying. Why not stop and talk to you then, when the so called complaintants could actually see that the police are following up on their call?

Another issue then comes to mind that if they know how often you carry and when and where, there might be an officer watching you to see if you are in violation of the law at any time. Are there any cars parked near by that are not normally parked in the vicinity of your home? Are there any empty houses or apartments located nearby? As police have been known to use empty dwellings to watch suspected individuals.

I know many here will think I am being a paranoid gun nut, but do not think for a minute that any police department will not stoop to such tactics just to make their mark on the OC movement. It is all about control and obviously they are proving that by their comments to you. "If you don't do what we ask, then you may find yourself being held at gun point." Did Flynn take over as Chief in GB?

As far as confronting the complaintants, there is not need for that. Simply send them an OC Pamphlet in the mail. It would still be nice to know who the complaintants are as this may shed some light on the issue. Maybe there is no complaintant. Maybe the coomplaintant is the officer himself. Maybe the complaintant is related to the officer or another officer. It is always best strategy to have all of the information at hand before responding to any situation.

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qball54208 wrote:

J.Gleason wrote:

And file an open records request right away.

Click to expand...

Not quite sure what that would accomplish.
I'm not going to confront the complainants, not like going to their door and explain to them OUR rights, would like to though.
Like I said, it's time to purchase a digital personal recorder, I do not think this is the last time I will be contacted by the GBPD!
The Officer was adamant about me OC'ing less in a particular area in my neighborhood.
His request is placing a limitation on my RIGHT to OC as I see it.
I get the feeling that if I were to continue to OC in the area he stated, he will be back, and I fear to arrest and charge me!
Well see!

Click to expand...

So when are you going to have your first , OC night & BBQ at your house ? I can bring some Burgers Looks like we have to get your peeps on your street used to seeing holstered guns.

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Glock34 wrote:

qball54208 wrote:

J.Gleason wrote:

And file an open records request right away.

Click to expand...

Not quite sure what that would accomplish.
I'm not going to confront the complainants, not like going to their door and explain to them OUR rights, would like to though.
Like I said, it's time to purchase a digital personal recorder, I do not think this is the last time I will be contacted by the GBPD!
The Officer was adamant about me OC'ing less in a particular area in my neighborhood.
His request is placing a limitation on my RIGHT to OC as I see it.
I get the feeling that if I were to continue to OC in the area he stated, he will be back, and I fear to arrest and charge me!
Well see!

Click to expand...

So when are you going to have your first , OC night & BBQ at your house ? I can bring some Burgers Looks like we have to get your peeps on your street used to seeing holstered guns.

Click to expand...

An Open Carry Block Party!

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J.Gleason wrote:

Glock34 wrote:

qball54208 wrote:

J.Gleason wrote:

And file an open records request right away.

Click to expand...

Not quite sure what that would accomplish.
I'm not going to confront the complainants, not like going to their door and explain to them OUR rights, would like to though.
Like I said, it's time to purchase a digital personal recorder, I do not think this is the last time I will be contacted by the GBPD!
The Officer was adamant about me OC'ing less in a particular area in my neighborhood.
His request is placing a limitation on my RIGHT to OC as I see it.
I get the feeling that if I were to continue to OC in the area he stated, he will be back, and I fear to arrest and charge me!
Well see!

Click to expand...

So when are you going to have your first , OC night & BBQ at your house ? I can bring some Burgers Looks like we have to get your peeps on your street used to seeing holstered guns.

Click to expand...

An Open Carry Block Party!

Click to expand...

better yet Something like the OC Party I had last year in my back yard...only on the driveway & front yard.

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My Local Police Department tried those lines with me on one occasion prior.

Needless to say, although my State allows Concealed Carry..., it ain't happing like what they want.

The Police should take initialtive to inform Citizens of The Law.

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By the way Qball, "54208" are you from Denmark?

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qball54208 wrote:

He requested "from a PR stand point, cause the general public does not understand that it is legal and to prevent me from being subjected to being put to the ground at gun point by some younger officer that does not understand the law"

Click to expand...

This is BS since all GBPD officers are required to have read the memo published by Chief Arts.:?

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Here's a simple solution:

Visit the Chief of Police at his home, late night, so you know he's sleeping.

"Who is it?"

"A citizen."

"Hold on." He picks up his gun.

"Do you run the police department?"

"Yes...."

"Do you allow officers to wake people up in the middle of the night and ask me to limit the free exercise of a constitutional right?"

"uhh....."

"Well I've received a number of complaints that this is what is happening..."

"uhhhhh...."

"Well, could you ask your officers to not do that as much? Because I have to come and bug your ass late at night every time I hear about it!"