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Thread: The scary truth

  1. #1
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    I must admit to having some trepidation about the lawful transportation of a firearm. Most of it goes back to a situation in 1995 when my car was illegally searched in Chicago by the CPD. Thankfully I was not arrested in this encounter but they did go crazy about a holster they found locked in the trunk. My freedom from unlawful search was trampled that day but I also know that had they found anything to arrest me for or were able to fabricate a situation they would have. I worry that it is just to easy for law enforcement to take advantage. I personally will no longer transport any firearm in a non locking case and that locking system must be by combination, not keyed. It is my mistrust that makes me very concerned about what could happen if a LEO is able to gain access to my firearms. Once access to a firearm is available anything could happen. A unloaded firearm could in seconds become mysteriously loaded if any ammunition is present. A lawfully transported firearm could be freed from its case and easily be moved from one location to another.

    I'm driving down the road in the middle of the night and get pulled over. LEO tells me I'm speeding or swerving or whatever. I state that I don't believe that to be so. The Officer verbally escalates the incident. My responses do not diffuse the situation. Now the Officer decides to go fishing, perhaps he claims to smell alcohol or marijuana. A great tool because it gives him reasonable suspicion and can't ever be proven to be true or false. Now I'm out of my car, searched, and detained. The Officer finds a locked gun case and wants to know what is inside. He unlocks the case. Now at this point without finding any other contraband I might be free to go. But if he wants to claim the gun was not unloaded and slips the loaded magazine into the firearm I might lose $100 plus costs. If he claims he found the firearm in the glove box or under the seat I might lose 9 months of my life to a correctional facility. If he is really having a bad day he could kill me put my gun in my hand and have little to worry about.

    We don't advocate the right to carry a firearm because of all the good law abiding people in the world, but because of the lawless people. To assume that all the people who are sworn in to uphold the law are also good law abiding people is to make a potentially costly error of trust. Recording devices are great and becoming harder and harder to detect but they still must remain within your control. If one wants to operate under the mode of "it wont happen to me" then one doesn't need a firearm to begin with. Now I have to wonder what I would do in a situation where I was legally carrying openly or concealed and under what circumstances I would be willing to surrender my firearm and when I would refuse. Seems like a good thing to have worked out in ones mind because that is not a situation I want to find myself in.

    "Sir, I will comply with your order to disarm but for my own safety I would like your supervisor on the scene before I relinquish my right to bear arms."

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    In a traffic stop, meet the officer at the front of your secured and locked vehicle. A traffic stop does not provide PC/RAS for a search/seizure.

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    In a traffic stop, meet the officer at the front of your secured and locked vehicle. A traffic stop does not provide PC/RAS for a search/seizure.
    That is good advice, but as Uziel pointed out they can simply say they smell alcohol or marijuana, they can say you were swerving or acting suspicious. A drug dog rarely doesnt hit on a vehicle, they will search if they really want to..

    Yes it is the scary truth, there really is not much freedom anymore. All you can really do is remember your rights and always try to reserve them, especially the 5th Amendment. Pleading your case to an officer on the street is never the way to go. Try to document any encounter, at least audio with a tape recorder or phone.

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    Regular Member johnny amish's Avatar
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    With the technology as it is today it is possible to carry digital video equipment and video the entire event. You can see some of this on http://www.copblock.org .Hope this is helpful.
    "To sin by silence, when we should protest makes cowards out of men."
    Ella Wheeler Cox


    We must contact our lawmakers today, tomorrow and the next day to remind them of Constitutional Carry.
    Laws are not written because of the actions of many, they are wrtiten because of the inactions of many.

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    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    Uziel Gal wrote:
    I must admit to having some trepidation about the lawful transportation of a firearm. Most of it goes back to a situation in 1995 when my car was illegally searched in Chicago by the CPD. Thankfully I was not arrested in this encounter but they did go crazy about a holster they found locked in the trunk. My freedom from unlawful search was trampled that day but I also know that had they found anything to arrest me for or were able to fabricate a situation they would have. I worry that it is just to easy for law enforcement to take advantage. I personally will no longer transport any firearm in a non locking case and that locking system must be by combination, not keyed. It is my mistrust that makes me very concerned about what could happen if a LEO is able to gain access to my firearms. Once access to a firearm is available anything could happen. A unloaded firearm could in seconds become mysteriously loaded if any ammunition is present. A lawfully transported firearm could be freed from its case and easily be moved from one location to another.

    I'm driving down the road in the middle of the night and get pulled over. LEO tells me I'm speeding or swerving or whatever. I state that I don't believe that to be so. The Officer verbally escalates the incident. My responses do not diffuse the situation. Now the Officer decides to go fishing, perhaps he claims to smell alcohol or marijuana. A great tool because it gives him reasonable suspicion and can't ever be proven to be true or false. Now I'm out of my car, searched, and detained. The Officer finds a locked gun case and wants to know what is inside. He unlocks the case. Now at this point without finding any other contraband I might be free to go. But if he wants to claim the gun was not unloaded and slips the loaded magazine into the firearm I might lose $100 plus costs. If he claims he found the firearm in the glove box or under the seat I might lose 9 months of my life to a correctional facility. If he is really having a bad day he could kill me put my gun in my hand and have little to worry about.

    We don't advocate the right to carry a firearm because of all the good law abiding people in the world, but because of the lawless people. To assume that all the people who are sworn in to uphold the law are also good law abiding people is to make a potentially costly error of trust. Recording devices are great and becoming harder and harder to detect but they still must remain within your control. If one wants to operate under the mode of "it wont happen to me" then one doesn't need a firearm to begin with. Now I have to wonder what I would do in a situation where I was legally carrying openly or concealed and under what circumstances I would be willing to surrender my firearm and when I would refuse. Seems like a good thing to have worked out in ones mind because that is not a situation I want to find myself in.

    "Sir, I will comply with your order to disarm but for my own safety I would like your supervisor on the scene before I relinquish my right to bear arms."
    You are right on. The Police can do anything they want to us subjects. They can even kill you if they don't like you. your word against theirs..oh yeah..your not talking anymore. No one is Free in the USA, not even close.

    PS. I really dig your screen name.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

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    I also don't transport in unlocked containers. This is because I can have it unlocked, within reach, and be a few seconds to safety. I can always lock it while I am being pulled over.

    It is not illegal to have a locked container in a car, don't let any cop tell you otherwise. You don't have to specify what is in the container. You could say "personal property", or just say nothing. It may make him irate, but he can't do a damn thing about it legally.

    This is a another reason for having a recorder handy at any time, especially when transporting a firearm. Unfortunately in this day and age, cops go fishing often. And they often catch people who are talking too much.

  7. #7
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    You always have the option of requesting a supervisor to be present during a traffic stop, and if asked to step out of the vehicle, you lock the doors behind you and put your keys in your pocket. Problem solved! Use this! Especially if you are female! you say you want to be sure that the cop is not an impostor who may try to rape or kill you.

    If they remove your keys from your pocket to unlock the doors, this is now an illegal search.

    Some states are allowing what some cops call a "Terry Frisk of the vehicle" to make sure no weapons are within lunging distance. A locked door prevents this in many ways.

    I have had cops harass me for locking my doors and putting my keys in my pocket, they ask if I am trying to hide something, I reply with "it is just habit" but I refuse to unlock my doors.
    If you leave a door or window open, they can stick their head into your car and it is legal at this point until they move or open items to look in them.

    If a person is outside of their car, and the doors are locked, there is no explainable reason for a cop to search your car for his own safety.

  8. #8
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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    In a traffic stop, meet the officer at the front of your secured and locked vehicle.* A traffic stop does not provide PC/RAS for a search/seizure.*
    Sounds like a BAD idea to me. Do not leave the vehicle unless asked by the officer to do so. Police get very nervous about a person that confronts them in such a manner. While in the car you are restrained from attacking the officer, that makes them feel safer. Also, while in the car you are not exposed to traffic, that makes you safer.

    I've been told that it is best to stay put in the car. Leave your seat belt on, this shows you are not in violation of any seatbelt laws. I was accused of not wearing my seatbelt in a traffic stop even after the officer saw me take the seat belt off to more easily reach my wallet to retrieve my DL. Roll down your window only as far as you must to converse with the officer and be able to pass any documents. This makes it harder for the officer to look or reach inside if you are asked to leave the vehicle.

    If asked to leave the vehicle then lock the doors and place your keys in your pocket. My old car had those combination keys on the door to unlock the door without keys. I loved that feature and wanted it on my next vehicle since it permitted me to be "forgetful" and lock the keys in the car if I was in that situation. Sadly my new (well, new to me) truck does not have that feature, not only that but it does not allow the door to be locked from the inside before being closed. That makes it difficult to quickly lock the door in such a situation since I must then either use the key or keyless fob to lock the door after it has been closed. I see why they did that, it makes it very difficult to lock yourself out of the vehicle.

    There is video out there of an off duty (and in plain clothes) cop that got out of the car to meet the officer after having been pulled over. That off duty cop found himself getting tazed by the officer that pulled him over. I guess he felt threatened. I don't remember all the details of the incident but getting out of the car and reaching for your wallet before being asked to do so can look very suspicious. Think about that for a bit.

  9. #9
    Regular Member johnny amish's Avatar
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    IA_farmboy wrote:
    Doug Huffman wrote:
    In a traffic stop, meet the officer at the front of your secured and locked vehicle. A traffic stop does not provide PC/RAS for a search/seizure.
    Sounds like a BAD idea to me. Do not leave the vehicle unless asked by the officer to do so. Police get very nervous about a person that confronts them in such a manner. While in the car you are restrained from attacking the officer, that makes them feel safer. Also, while in the car you are not exposed to traffic, that makes you safer.

    I've been told that it is best to stay put in the car. Leave your seat belt on, this shows you are not in violation of any seatbelt laws. I was accused of not wearing my seatbelt in a traffic stop even after the officer saw me take the seat belt off to more easily reach my wallet to retrieve my DL. Roll down your window only as far as you must to converse with the officer and be able to pass any documents. This makes it harder for the officer to look or reach inside if you are asked to leave the vehicle.

    If asked to leave the vehicle then lock the doors and place your keys in your pocket. My old car had those combination keys on the door to unlock the door without keys. I loved that feature and wanted it on my next vehicle since it permitted me to be "forgetful" and lock the keys in the car if I was in that situation. Sadly my new (well, new to me) truck does not have that feature, not only that but it does not allow the door to be locked from the inside before being closed. That makes it difficult to quickly lock the door in such a situation since I must then either use the key or keyless fob to lock the door after it has been closed. I see why they did that, it makes it very difficult to lock yourself out of the vehicle.

    There is video out there of an off duty (and in plain clothes) cop that got out of the car to meet the officer after having been pulled over. That off duty cop found himself getting tazed by the officer that pulled him over. I guess he felt threatened. I don't remember all the details of the incident but getting out of the car and reaching for your wallet before being asked to do so can look very suspicious. Think about that for a bit.
    This seems like good advice. I tried to get out of the car during a routine traffic stop only to have to cop start screaming at me, they seem to get nervous if you try this.It all ended ok but I would not leave the car again.
    "To sin by silence, when we should protest makes cowards out of men."
    Ella Wheeler Cox


    We must contact our lawmakers today, tomorrow and the next day to remind them of Constitutional Carry.
    Laws are not written because of the actions of many, they are wrtiten because of the inactions of many.

  10. #10
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    Roll up the window as far as you can and lock your door, even if you are still in your car. This prevents him from deciding to open a car door without your permission. Place your hands on the steering wheel. Lock the doors again if you have to leave the car. And don't get wordy with him. And do not consent to a search of your person or property.

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