peterarthur
Regular Member
imported post
Well, as promised, here is a quick (maybe) account of my recent negative LEO encounter in KC.
First, let me start by saying that I have been OC'ing in the KC area for a couple of months, including Raytown, Lees Summit, Olathe and Shawnee Mission and, of course, KC, Mo where I live. I have seen dozens of officers in KC and they have always been polite, respectful and basically just looked me over and continue on their way. One LEO at a Quik Trip on 87th street even called me, "The smartest customer I have ever seen in this store."
But Sunday afternoon as I was purchasing a fountain drink at the same Quik Trip I frequent every day on my way to work, I observed and was observed by a KCMO police officer named Cronkite. As it turns out, he is a LONG time resident of the area. He came over to me with a quizzical look in his eye and a slight disapproving frown. He ran his finger across the logo on my polo shirt and asked if I was some kind of security. I stepped away from his hand and held my hand up and said "Excuse me, no I am not". Now, remember this is my FIRST negative encounter so I did feel slightly intimidated not knowing how one of these encounters might go. He said. "Why are you carrying a weapon, " to which I replied, "Because I want to. It is my right." Not like a smartass, just a statement of fact with a slight grin. The furrow in his brows deepened and he said, "So it is an open carry thing then," suggesting to me that he had already had these types of encounters. He asked me to step over to the hot dog counter and said demandingly, "Let me see your ID." I replied, "Since I am not fully versed in the ID laws of Missouri and KC, I feel compelled to comply," and I gave him my driver's license. He wrote down my name, license number, description and called in a "warrants" check. Then he asked, "Why do you feel the need to be armed?" I was tempted to ask him the same, but instead I said, "It is a dangerous world." He said, "What makes you think that your weapon would be of any use during some type of assault." I countered with, "How about you tell me of ONE incident where an OC carrier was the victim or perpetrator of a crime. If you can cite ONE case, I will stop carrying in your precinct." He just stared at me as if to say, "You are such an incredible moron." Then he said something to the effect that he knew that while it was legal to OC, it was unnecessary and dangerous and he did not like it. We then started to discuss state and city code and looked extremely surprised as I began to quote Article 8 Section 50-261 of the city municipal code that describes illegal weapons use. After I broke down all of the specifics, while smiling I might add (remember to smile or you might get arrested for being armed and angry), I asked if he thought I had committed or was about to commit a crime. He said no, so I asked if I could go. He said no. I asked if I was under arrest and he said no so I told him I needed to leave, I had to be somewhere. He said he was not done questioning me. I asked why he needed to question me if I was not under suspicion. He said he was not sure if it was safe for him or the other customers for me to be in there armed. I told he had probably never been safer and that my presence was a huge benefit to all in the area, regardless of their comfort level or his. He asked me if I even knew how to handle a weapon to which I replied that I probably had more weapons training, safety classes, personal combat skills training and urban warfare training than he did, with a smile and a chuckle. "And probably a better shot, too", I kidded him. (I qualified Expert on pistol, rifle and grenade in the Army). He still would not lighten up. Guess I should not have compared my experience to his
When dispatch had finished running my warrants check, he relaxed a little but still kept that "You are a crazy white boy" look on his face. I also let him know that I planned on educating as much of the public as possible and that I intended to encourage every citizen that made inquiries of my OC to do the same after proper weapons and safety training. He stated flatly that that was "just a stupid thing to do." I said he should get used to seeing OC because it will probably increase in the near future and that, although he does not like it personally, he might learn to appreciate it as crime rates begin to slip. He thought that unlikely but said I could leave.
I have forgotten a few details that I shared with one other forum member and the order of events is not exact. The main thing about the encounter that stands out in my mind was his disdain of me, his attitude of superiority, as if civilians cannot be trusted with guns in public. Oh, I should mention that one of my knees started shaking a little but he could not see it behind the counter that separated us. But as I asserted myself and began to quote law, my confidence grew and my trepidation eased slightly. In fact, I look forward to the next encounter. I think Officer Cronkite may have been educated just a little and perhaps his attitude will soften as he realizes that we are all on the same side and are actually beneficial to the community. Maybe...
BTW, probably just coincidence but he is the first African-American officer I have encountered in a neighborhood that is predominantly (90+%) African-American.
Conversely, I met 2 wonderful Walmart employees yesterday (both middle age African-American women) who were VERY interested in my wife (who was OCing) and I (also OCing) as we shopped at Walmart in Raytown. The conversation ended with the woman greeting at the door promising to visit the Bullethole to practice shooting rented guns and planning to go to the gun show in June I will be following up with her as I see her semi-regularly.
Anyway, more to come WHEN I have my next negative encounter. I will probably video record it to better capture the details and post it on youtube. I might even U-Stream it as this gets it on the internet AS it is happening in case he decides to shut me down and/or take my phone.
Til next time...
Peter
Well, as promised, here is a quick (maybe) account of my recent negative LEO encounter in KC.
First, let me start by saying that I have been OC'ing in the KC area for a couple of months, including Raytown, Lees Summit, Olathe and Shawnee Mission and, of course, KC, Mo where I live. I have seen dozens of officers in KC and they have always been polite, respectful and basically just looked me over and continue on their way. One LEO at a Quik Trip on 87th street even called me, "The smartest customer I have ever seen in this store."
But Sunday afternoon as I was purchasing a fountain drink at the same Quik Trip I frequent every day on my way to work, I observed and was observed by a KCMO police officer named Cronkite. As it turns out, he is a LONG time resident of the area. He came over to me with a quizzical look in his eye and a slight disapproving frown. He ran his finger across the logo on my polo shirt and asked if I was some kind of security. I stepped away from his hand and held my hand up and said "Excuse me, no I am not". Now, remember this is my FIRST negative encounter so I did feel slightly intimidated not knowing how one of these encounters might go. He said. "Why are you carrying a weapon, " to which I replied, "Because I want to. It is my right." Not like a smartass, just a statement of fact with a slight grin. The furrow in his brows deepened and he said, "So it is an open carry thing then," suggesting to me that he had already had these types of encounters. He asked me to step over to the hot dog counter and said demandingly, "Let me see your ID." I replied, "Since I am not fully versed in the ID laws of Missouri and KC, I feel compelled to comply," and I gave him my driver's license. He wrote down my name, license number, description and called in a "warrants" check. Then he asked, "Why do you feel the need to be armed?" I was tempted to ask him the same, but instead I said, "It is a dangerous world." He said, "What makes you think that your weapon would be of any use during some type of assault." I countered with, "How about you tell me of ONE incident where an OC carrier was the victim or perpetrator of a crime. If you can cite ONE case, I will stop carrying in your precinct." He just stared at me as if to say, "You are such an incredible moron." Then he said something to the effect that he knew that while it was legal to OC, it was unnecessary and dangerous and he did not like it. We then started to discuss state and city code and looked extremely surprised as I began to quote Article 8 Section 50-261 of the city municipal code that describes illegal weapons use. After I broke down all of the specifics, while smiling I might add (remember to smile or you might get arrested for being armed and angry), I asked if he thought I had committed or was about to commit a crime. He said no, so I asked if I could go. He said no. I asked if I was under arrest and he said no so I told him I needed to leave, I had to be somewhere. He said he was not done questioning me. I asked why he needed to question me if I was not under suspicion. He said he was not sure if it was safe for him or the other customers for me to be in there armed. I told he had probably never been safer and that my presence was a huge benefit to all in the area, regardless of their comfort level or his. He asked me if I even knew how to handle a weapon to which I replied that I probably had more weapons training, safety classes, personal combat skills training and urban warfare training than he did, with a smile and a chuckle. "And probably a better shot, too", I kidded him. (I qualified Expert on pistol, rifle and grenade in the Army). He still would not lighten up. Guess I should not have compared my experience to his
When dispatch had finished running my warrants check, he relaxed a little but still kept that "You are a crazy white boy" look on his face. I also let him know that I planned on educating as much of the public as possible and that I intended to encourage every citizen that made inquiries of my OC to do the same after proper weapons and safety training. He stated flatly that that was "just a stupid thing to do." I said he should get used to seeing OC because it will probably increase in the near future and that, although he does not like it personally, he might learn to appreciate it as crime rates begin to slip. He thought that unlikely but said I could leave.
I have forgotten a few details that I shared with one other forum member and the order of events is not exact. The main thing about the encounter that stands out in my mind was his disdain of me, his attitude of superiority, as if civilians cannot be trusted with guns in public. Oh, I should mention that one of my knees started shaking a little but he could not see it behind the counter that separated us. But as I asserted myself and began to quote law, my confidence grew and my trepidation eased slightly. In fact, I look forward to the next encounter. I think Officer Cronkite may have been educated just a little and perhaps his attitude will soften as he realizes that we are all on the same side and are actually beneficial to the community. Maybe...
BTW, probably just coincidence but he is the first African-American officer I have encountered in a neighborhood that is predominantly (90+%) African-American.
Conversely, I met 2 wonderful Walmart employees yesterday (both middle age African-American women) who were VERY interested in my wife (who was OCing) and I (also OCing) as we shopped at Walmart in Raytown. The conversation ended with the woman greeting at the door promising to visit the Bullethole to practice shooting rented guns and planning to go to the gun show in June
I will be following up with her as I see her semi-regularly.Anyway, more to come WHEN I have my next negative encounter. I will probably video record it to better capture the details and post it on youtube. I might even U-Stream it as this gets it on the internet AS it is happening in case he decides to shut me down and/or take my phone.
Til next time...
Peter
