Torrington Shooting

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Rich B wrote:

Interesting. I was just about to look this up all over again because I just had a discussion with a Lt on the Wallingford PD. He said they confiscate permits 'all the time', usually in relation to domestic violence and restraining orders.

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They are breaking the law - plain and simple. Police have no power to take property unless it is evidence.

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GunTotingLawyer wrote:

They are breaking the law - plain and simple.  Police have no power to take property unless it is evidence.

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That is just another issue to take up with them. This will be interesting. I think the Deputy Chief is tired of seeing me as is, but it sounds like they have a lot of issues they need to correct.

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Rich B wrote:

GunTotingLawyer wrote:

They are breaking the law - plain and simple. Police have no power to take property unless it is evidence.

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That is just another issue to take up with them. This will be interesting. I think the Deputy Chief is tired of seeing me as is, but it sounds like they have a lot of issues they need to correct.

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The Second Circuit Court of Appeals even noticed that only the Commissioner of DPS has the power to revoke a permit, and even then, his actions must comport with constitutional due process. From the recent Kuck case, (Kuck v. Danaher, 600 F.3d 159, 165-66 (2d Cir. 2010)):

Contrary to defendants' suggestion, the state's ability to regulate firearms does not extinguish the liberty interest at stake or eliminate the need to afford due process. In Connecticut, a permit to carry a firearm may only be revoked by the Commissioner of DPS "for cause," or under certain statutorily enumerated circumstances requiring revocation. Conn. Gen. Stat. § 29-32(b), (c). Much the same, denial or revocation must be supported on appeal by "just and proper cause." Conn. Gen. Stat. § 29-32b(b). By contrast to other states' regulatory schemes, the Commissioner does not have unfettered discretion to revoke permits under state law. See Bach v. Pataki, 408 F.3d 75, 80-81 (2d Cir. 2005)(describing the "wide discretion" possessed by licensing officers under New York law).

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im learning tons on here reading these posts.....alot of things i thought to be true turn out to be false....i have nothing to add, just thought id say thanks!

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MK wrote:

Rich B wrote:

MK wrote:

accidental discharges can happen by no fault of the gun owner.

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Oh really? How do you suppose that would happen?

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It could be an equipment malfunction.   Like I said though, I wasn't there and don't know in this particular case but the man says he was loading a round.    When I was 15, I had a semi auto shotgun accidentily discharge when I was loading it though nothing touched the trigger, so I've seen it happen first hand myself.   Its pretty rare but stuff can and does happen from time to time.


Here's an article about an incident involving an accidental discharge that happened during a gun rights picnic by an OCDO member who was arrested for it in Michigan.

http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/kalamazoo_and_battle_creek/Gun_fired_at_gun_rights_picnic

Here's one of the threads about it from their state forum.

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/31914.html

On page 13 of that thread, the man explains what happened involving his accidental discharge.

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MK you've got a lot to learn. Guns don't just "go off".

I read your link. The idiot was trying to clear the gun. Guns "just go off" all the time when this happens. Then the gun is tested and found to be fine.

The idiot should not have been handling his weapon PERIOD. Period period. He was at a picnic, not at a gun range.

This is one of the pitfalls of OC. Some guy comes up and says "nice gun". Next thing you know that idiot is whipping it out trying to clear it so the other guy can look at it. no No NO .

Just so you know we are kindof in the same boat. I was once out bird hunting. I loaded my Beretta 687 over/under with a shell after missing a bird. Snapped the gun and BAM. It went off. I was sure that the gun malfunctioned. I knew I hadn't touched the trigger.

I KNEW I hadn't touched the trigger. So I had the gun inspected. Guess what, there was nothing wrong with the gun. Guess what, Its never done it again in the 15 years since.

Guess what, the only logical conclusion I can come to is that I caused that gun to go off. There is no other logical conclusion.

I screwed up and almost killed my dog. I learned from it. I'm better for it.

99.999% of all ADs are not ADs at all, but NDs or Negligent discharges.

By the way, the guy in the thread you referenced said this:

I pulled the mag out and stuck it in my pocket, then pulled the slide back to unload the chamber (with ALL fingers UNDER the trigger gaurd), as the breech opened the gun went off.

Again, why unload the gun? Leave it in the holster and wear it home. His dad was wearing a loaded glock on the way home so why risk it.

Also, the fact that he would grip the gun with "all fingers under the trigger guard" tells me he is either a novice or poorly trained. So again, I take that account with a shaker full of salt.

As for the guy in Torrington. If he tries to get his permit back, please let me know. I'll show up at the BFPE hearing to testify against him. If the story is as reported, he should be let anywhere near a pistol.

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The guy in Michigan was at a MOC picnic, he did not have the legal right to conceal and as such was legally required to unload the pistol and lock it in the trunk for transport. He was complying with Michigan statutes when he head the whatever-discharge.

To say he should have just worn the pistol home as is would be to have him break the statute about carrying in a car without a permit.

He was between a rock and a hard place, I'm loathe to handle or clear my pistol except in a safe spot in my house with the muzzle pointed in a direction where it would go into the basement if it went off (same thing for the range).

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Goaldcoaster,
He said that when he was stopped his father was carrying a loaded glock, which the cop threw. So I'm assuming that he could have carried in the car if he had a carry permit.

He should have been a big boy and gotten a carry permit so he could carry in the car. Load the gun, holster it in the house and don't touch it until you either need it or get home and take it off.

Clearing a gun in a public place is insanely stupid. This is the kindof childish crap that will ruin things for the rest of us.

HE put himself in between a rock and a hard place. His dad had a carry permit. So its safe to say he was raised around firearms. Unless he just turned 21 he had ample opportunity to get a carry permit.

He should have simply left the gun at home until he got a permit. Having to clear and load a gun every time you get into and out of the car is bush league.

And then to not admit any wrong doing. Comeon. People forget that with rights come responsibilities.

Don
p.s. I've got a few loaded guns in my safe. None have ever gone off on their own.

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Don't get me wrong, I don't believe in AD's either - I'm just saying the laws as they are in that place forced him to unload.

He may be philosophically opposed to getting a permit for something that is a constitutionally guaranteed right - I can't answer why he didn't have a permit but am not going to cast aspersions on his manliness based on the facts at hand.

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GoldCoaster wrote:

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe in AD's either - I'm just saying the laws as they are in that place forced him to unload. 

He may be philosophically opposed to getting a permit for something that is a constitutionally guaranteed right - I can't answer why he didn't have a permit but am not going to cast aspersions on his manliness based on the facts at hand. 

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I understand your point. But we all answer to something higher than the law. And 'm not talking about God. Lets be agnostic here. Lets just call it the golden rule. Your rights end where others rights begin. Very simply, by loading and unloading in public, he puts others at risk. That is unacceptable.

I'm certainly not saying it can't be done safely. But if it happens a million times a year in the US, a certain number of those instances result in a ND.

I've just started carrying and shooting a 1911 after many years of shooting DAO Glocks, Kahrs, Rugers and S&W JFrames. I have to tell you that there is a bit of a cringe factor when I sweep the safety off and rack the slide back to unload in my home. I'll get over it. I just need to keep my finger off the trigger.

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There was a similar but different story on another forum recently. In that case the ND happened in a parking lot outside a gun show. It was in Texas & no loaded guns were permitted in the show. So complying with the rules or law he was clearing his gun & shot himself in the leg. Rules & laws that force you to manipulate a gun unnecessarily create undue risks IMO. No excuse for the discharge but a simple fact associated with things of this nature. After all, what exactly is a safe direction in an open public area?

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There is currently a video of a Dec. 2009accidental discharge of a weapon by Barbara Mattson of DPS SLFU that has been requested under FOI.

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dcmdon wrote:

This is one of the pitfalls of OC. Some guy comes up and says "nice gun". Next thing you know that idiot is whipping it out trying to clear it so the other guy can look at it. no No NO .

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Um. No. Never. Not happening. If this is something you are doing, please don't open carry. When my pistol is in my holster and I am not inside my home or the home of someone I trust, I am not removing my firearm for anyone. When I was arrested, I was pretty pissed that the Wallingford PD removed my firearm and cleared it in the direction of a crowded pool hall.

This is not a pitfall of OC. This is a pitfall of stupid people who do not understand basic firearm safety.

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Leverdude wrote:

After all, what exactly is a safe direction in an open public area?

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Straight down at the ground as viewed from my holster.

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I'm not afraid to say that the last gun show I went to, when asked if I had any weapons, I simply said No and walked in.

Any guns I'm selling are unladed before they go in the car and are transported with a zip tie in and around the bbl if its a handgun or with a chamber flag if a long gun.