Has anyone ever had tape concealing serial # removed by a cop?

kwikrnu wrote:

Alexcabbie wrote:

Pray, tell me, why would you tape over the serial number of your weapon in the first place? If you need to attract attention so badly, why not walk around with a large candy cane in a holster instead of a firearm, and see if any LEO is dopey enough to ask you if you have a permit?

Why do things that would cause concern by law enforcement that you might not only be nutso, but dangerous into the bargain? The object of the exercise is to show people that open-carriers are as normal as groceries in a supermarket. Deliberately provoking the police for no good reason does not help accomplish this.

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Tape over the serial number shouldn't attract the attention of the police. Tape is not dangerous, nutso, or provoking. If police are doing their duty why should they harrassa law abiding citizen by running the serial # on a gun they do not believe was stolen or used in a crime?

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Have you ever purchased a firearm by private sale, not involving a bill of sale?

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RussP wrote:

kwikrnu wrote:

Alexcabbie wrote:

Pray, tell me, why would you tape over the serial number of your weapon in the first place? If you need to attract attention so badly, why not walk around with a large candy cane in a holster instead of a firearm, and see if any LEO is dopey enough to ask you if you have a permit?

Why do things that would cause concern by law enforcement that you might not only be nutso, but dangerous into the bargain? The object of the exercise is to show people that open-carriers are as normal as groceries in a supermarket. Deliberately provoking the police for no good reason does not help accomplish this.

Click to expand...

Tape over the serial number shouldn't attract the attention of the police. Tape is not dangerous, nutso, or provoking. If police are doing their duty why should they harrassa law abiding citizen by running the serial # on a gun they do not believe was stolen or used in a crime?

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Have you ever purchased a firearm by private sale, not involving a bill of sale?

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Another question pertinent to the topic that you don't want to answer?

Those private sale firearms, do you know the history behind them?

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RussP wrote:

RussP wrote:

kwikrnu wrote:

Alexcabbie wrote:

Pray, tell me, why would you tape over the serial number of your weapon in the first place? If you need to attract attention so badly, why not walk around with a large candy cane in a holster instead of a firearm, and see if any LEO is dopey enough to ask you if you have a permit?

Why do things that would cause concern by law enforcement that you might not only be nutso, but dangerous into the bargain? The object of the exercise is to show people that open-carriers are as normal as groceries in a supermarket. Deliberately provoking the police for no good reason does not help accomplish this.

Click to expand...

Tape over the serial number shouldn't attract the attention of the police. Tape is not dangerous, nutso, or provoking. If police are doing their duty why should they harrassa law abiding citizen by running the serial # on a gun they do not believe was stolen or used in a crime?

Click to expand...

Have you ever purchased a firearm by private sale, not involving a bill of sale?

Click to expand...

Another question pertinent to the topic that you don't want to answer?

Those private sale firearms, do you know the history behind them?

Click to expand...

It doesn't matter. What matters is that cops shouldn't run serial #'s w/o RAS or PC.

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kwikrnu wrote:

RussP wrote:

RussP wrote:

kwikrnu wrote:

Alexcabbie wrote:

Pray, tell me, why would you tape over the serial number of your weapon in the first place? If you need to attract attention so badly, why not walk around with a large candy cane in a holster instead of a firearm, and see if any LEO is dopey enough to ask you if you have a permit?

Why do things that would cause concern by law enforcement that you might not only be nutso, but dangerous into the bargain? The object of the exercise is to show people that open-carriers are as normal as groceries in a supermarket. Deliberately provoking the police for no good reason does not help accomplish this.

Click to expand...

Tape over the serial number shouldn't attract the attention of the police. Tape is not dangerous, nutso, or provoking. If police are doing their duty why should they harrassa law abiding citizen by running the serial # on a gun they do not believe was stolen or used in a crime?

Click to expand...

Have you ever purchased a firearm by private sale, not involving a bill of sale?

Click to expand...

Another question pertinent to the topic that you don't want to answer?

Those private sale firearms, do you know the history behind them?

Click to expand...

It doesn't matter. What matters is that cops shouldn't run serial #'s w/o RAS or PC.

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That's right, they probably shouldn't...

But, a report of a stolen firearm, in the county where you are, same make and model as the one you're carrying, that means nothing? Okay...

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What, precisely, would the cop be wondering?

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Covering the serial number in some manner is just another 'trip wire' Leonard will set for law enforcement if he gets his permit reinstated.

Leonard, they really need to issue another officer safety bulletin about you describing these new tactics, adding the PLR-16 to your armory inventory, too.

Here's a thought: Just paint over the serial number using a bright colored paint. Add layers until the number is unreadable. The bright color will draw attention to the fact you are hiding the serial number. It also requires paint remover to reveal the information. Not many field officers carry paint remover.

That does defeat the real purpose and goal of covering with easily removable tape, doesn't it - a lawsuit for 4th Amendment violations and a cash settlement.

Use the paint - it will keep some cop out of trouble.

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Covering the serial number in some manner is just another 'trip wire' Leonard will set for law enforcement if he gets his permit reinstated.

Leonard, they really need to issue another officer safety bulletin about you describing these new tactics, adding the PLR-16 to your armory inventory, too.

Here's a thought: Just paint over the serial number using a bright colored paint. Add layers until the number is unreadable. The bright color will draw attention to the fact you are hiding the serial number. It also requires paint remover to reveal the information. Not many field officers carry paint remover.

That does defeat the real purpose and goal of covering with easily removable tape, doesn't it - a lawsuit for 4th Amendment violations and a cash settlement.

Use the paint - it will keep some cop out of trouble.

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Kwik, my brother, you are a one-man "Do-Dah" parade. Yesterday evening I had a family with two youngsters in the cab, and they were of the age where they play that game where one says. "don't touch me" and the other gets as close as possible without actually touching the other and says: "I'm not touching you!" Your "playing it to the edge" technique is IMO nearly identical (and almost as mature.)IMHO, any juror sitting in judgement of any lawsuit you file should, if finding for you, award you one dollar. :banghead:

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RussP wrote:

Covering the serial number in some manner is just another 'trip wire' Leonard will set for law enforcement if he gets his permit reinstated.

Leonard, they really need to issue another officer safety bulletin about you describing these new tactics, adding the PLR-16 to your armory inventory, too.

Here's a thought: Just paint over the serial number using a bright colored paint. Add layers until the number is unreadable. The bright color will draw attention to the fact you are hiding the serial number. It also requires paint remover to reveal the information. Not many field officers carry paint remover.

That does defeat the real purpose and goal of covering with easily removable tape, doesn't it - a lawsuit for 4th Amendment violations and a cash settlement.

Use the paint - it will keep some cop out of trouble.

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Why is it HIS job to keep the cop out of trouble?

If the cop is operating within the constraints placed upon his limited authority BY LAW, then there will be no trouble. Should the cop land his arse in hot water for illegally removing the tape and running the numbers during a stop, it's his own damn fault...not that of the one who placed the tape in the first place.

IF the cop does indeed have RAS or PC to believe that the sidearm is stolen, then he should say as much, issue a receipt, and take the sidearm into custody until such time as a warrant for a search of the serial number may be obtained. A pain? Perhaps....but this is how the protections of the Fourth amendment are supposed to work. They have to have a REASON to run the 'search' of the serial numbers, and if they DO have a reason, then they apply for a warrant to proceed...IE: they justify their reasoning to a third party (a judge) that either supports or denies the claim.

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Interesting...of all the content, keeping a cop out of trouble is your hot button...

Your comments are correct.

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No one here is worshiping cops. If you think that is happening, you need to look again.

Next, no one here is trying to keep the cops out of trouble. What the tape accomplishes is forcing cops to take an overt action to put the serial number into plain view. In fact, it helps get the cop into trouble if he looks at the serial number!

The tape is about defeating a lame argument used by cops to run numbers they wouldn't otherwise be allowed to run.

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eye95 wrote:

No one here is worshiping cops. If you think that is happening, you need to look again.

Next, no one here is trying to keep the cops out of trouble. What the tape accomplishes is forcing cops to take an overt action to put the serial number into plain view. In fact, it helps get the cop into trouble if he looks at the serial number!

The tape is about defeating a lame argument used by cops to run numbers they wouldn't otherwise be allowed to run.

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Correct...Tape, paint, whatever is used, it is a passive reminder during an encounter that there are limits. Don't want your numbers run, hide them. Don't care, don't. It's one of those personal choices you get to make.

You may have questions asked about why you feel the need to cover the number. It is up to you whether to answer that or not, another personal decision.

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I have a few cop friends that will run the numbers of anything I want to legally purchase, therfore the history of anything I own is perfectly clean! No officer needs to be concerned with what I'm carrying,where I got it, or who had it before me prior to arresting me. I just ain't gonna hand over anything I legally own for a Numbers chk. until I'm arrested and control of my personal effects have been taken over. Don't draw unnecessary attention, and chances are that there won't be any unnecessary attention.

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Carnivore wrote:

I have a few cop friends that will run the numbers of anything I want to legally purchase, therfore the history of anything I own is perfectly clean! No officer needs to be concerned with what I'm carrying,where I got it, or who had it before me prior to arresting me. I just ain't gonna hand over anything I legally own for a Numbers chk. until I'm arrested and control of my personal effects have been taken over. Don't draw unnecessary attention, and chances are that there won't be any unnecessary attention.

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Actually this is not true...

If an LEO has "run the numbers" of a firearm for you, they have most likely also made an E-Trace entry. So if, in the future, another LEO runs our numbers through E-Trace, those serial numbers are ALREADY going to have some info attached to them, which to a cop is going to look suspicious (that's how they are trained).

It's like your credit history--the system is set up to be a lose-lose situation. If you have NO credit history, and try to apply for a loan, that looks bad to a bank. But if a bunch of people do credit rating inquiries (like happens when you first get out of school and are applying for your first job, getting an apartment, setting up utilities, etc), THAT looks bad too...

Same with guns. If a gun has NO E-Trace entry, they are trained to think that is suspicious. IF it ALREADY has an entry when they run it, they are trained that THAT is suspicious.

You can't win.

And the fact is that unless an LEO has RAS to believe your firearm is stolen, dong a serial number search is a 4A violation, and entering your number into some sort of national permanent database is a violation of several federal and state laws...

I DARE anyone to show me a documented case where a stolen weapon was recovered from someone who was stopped for OC. Open Carry is NOT RAS or PC for a crime having been committed. The courts have ruled this over and over again. So I maintain that if OC is NOT evidence of a crime, where do they get off running your numbers?

No crime, no investigation, no problem.

At least that's how it should be...

Sonoroa, Alens and all the others--you know me, and you know that I'm no big fan of Kwikrnu's antics. But the serial number thing is a pet peeve of mine, and I think you guys are forgetting one HUGE issue here. LEO's are being trained, and most LEA's have the official policy these days that ANY firearm taken into police custody FOR ANY REASON is to be entered into E-TRACE, which is a system run by the BATFE and also has fields int he database for descriptions of the gun, ammo used, and the owners personal info too.

You guys seem to be forgetting one BIG issue here:

E-Trace is a NATIONAL DATABASE
and amounts to forced national registration.

Cop shave NO reason to enter our serial numbers and personal data into a national database unless we have been convicted of a crime, or there is PROOF that the firearm is stolen.

Any other reasoning used to put the data for innocent people in such a database is lawless bull@#$%, and a cover story for the real agenda which is to establish and maintain
a NATIONAL REGISTRATION SYSTEM.

Wake up folks. E-Trace is NOT in the best interest of lawful gun owners. If you think such a system is a good idea then I'd suggest you talk to some Jewish people who were living in Poland in th elate 1938's and see what THEY think about gun registration. Or talk to some British citizens who owned nice collections of guns in the 1970's. Or Austrailians in the 1980's. And on and on and on...

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Paint is a little too permanent, I think tape will work okay. The serial # on this gun is pretty small, don't worry I'm getting a shoulder holster for it.

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